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[anon4546543]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

To be a viable nation, the new Kurdistan needs an outlet to the sea. Which of the nations surrounding it, is going to surrender territory to make that happen?

Yes, Switzerland springs to mind, very successful country by the sea, (even has its own ocean going yacht club. True)

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, spiderorchid said:

Yes, Switzerland springs to mind, very successful country by the sea, (even has its own ocean going yacht club. True)

And Switzerland is surrounded by neighbors hostile to the idea of there even being a Switzerland?

[anon4546543]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

And Switzerland is surrounded by neighbors hostile to the idea of there even being a Switzerland?

You should read my previous post. Having access to the sea is the least of the problems for the creation of a new Kurd nation.

It is not impossible though, Britain, France and the US created a nation in the mid east that is totally surrounded by nations that

loathe the nation recreated after being destroyed over 2000 years ago.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

You should read my previous post. Having access to the sea is the least of the problems for the creation of a new Kurd nation.

It is not impossible though, Britain, France and the US created a nation in the mid east that is totally surrounded by nations that

loathe the nation recreated after being destroyed over 2000 years ago.

With access to the sea.

[anon4546543]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

With access to the sea.

Off topic but it would be possible to excise land in Nth Syria to provide Kurd Nation access to the sea. Many Kurds already reside in this area. But Russia, Turkey and probably the US will kill this idea of Kurd Nationhood before it gains any momentum. The Kurds are wonderful people and deserve better. They do not have the same clout as the Jews do despite also suffering mass slaughter by numerous nations in the past and by Turkey now.  

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, spiderorchid said:

Off topic but it would be possible to excise land in Nth Syria to provide Kurd Nation access to the sea. Many Kurds already reside in this area.  But Russia, Turkey and probably the US will kill this idea of Kurd Nationhood before it gains any momentum. The Kurds are wonderful people and deserve better. They do not have the same clout as the Jews do despite also suffering mass slaughter by numerous nations in the past and by Turkey now.  

The Turks might have something to say about that as well as the Syrians

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, spiderorchid said:

I wish what you state is true. I doubt that a Kurdish state will become reality. The Russians, Turks and Iraq will oppose it.  Kurds are convenient to the US right now. US has a habit of dumping those useful to them when they depart a war wrecked country.

Right. You must not be familiar with the Marshal Plan. Or how the U.S. helped Japan rebuild. Nice anti U.S. post, as normal.

[Thorgal]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

To be a viable nation, the new Kurdistan needs an outlet to the sea. Which of the nations surrounding it, is going to surrender territory to make that happen?

 

New Kurdistan contains huge water reservoirs nearing the Turkish border in the mountains and Mosul as oil &gas capital.

 

You control both (oil&gas + water), you control the whole Northern Syrian and Turkish territory.

 

The actual Turkish part of New Kurdistan was actually given by the Allied Forces to Turkey after WW2 and thus 'taken' from Syria. Idem dito for the more coastal region of Turkish Hatay.

 

In other words, the Allied Forces 'gived' the Syrian regions to Turkey just after WW2.

I expect a new 'thanksgiving' from the Coalition to the Kurds through Syrian or Turkish territory.

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

New Kurdistan contains huge water reservoirs nearing the Turkish border in the mountains and Mosul as oil &gas capital.

 

You control both (oil&gas + water), you control the whole Northern Syrian and Turkish territory.

 

The actual Turkish part of New Kurdistan was actually given by the Allied Forces to Turkey after WW2 and thus 'taken' from Syria. Idem dito for the more coastal region of Turkish Hatay.

 

In other words, the Allied Forces 'gived' the Syrian regions to Turkey just after WW2.

I expect a new 'thanksgiving' from the Coalition to the Kurds through Syrian or Turkish territory.

The US is going to go to war on behalf of the Kurds?

[onthesoi]

19 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Right. You must not be familiar with the Marshal Plan. Or how the U.S. helped Japan rebuild. Nice anti U.S. post, as normal.

 

Was that before or after the US nuked the civilian population of Japan several times over?

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Was that before or after the US nuked the civilian population of Japan several times over?

After. Which was also after they bombed Pearl Harbor and killed thousands. Or have you forgot that part?

[ilostmypassword]

25 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Right. You must not be familiar with the Marshal Plan. Or how the U.S. helped Japan rebuild. Nice anti U.S. post, as normal.

ANd exactlyl how will the US help the Kurds rebuild. Will it battle its way through Syria, or Turkey or Iraq or  Iran? And once it's done that, will it commit the necessary forces to maintain that access? Sounds like a political winner.

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

ANd exactlyl how will the US help the Kurds rebuild. Will it battle its way through Syria, or Turkey or Iraq or  Iran? And once it's done that, will it commit the necessary forces to maintain that access? Sounds like a political winner.

If I had a crystal ball, I'd fill you in. In Iraq, the US is against a separate nation for the Kurds.

 

Syria is a mess. No easy answers.

[anon4546543]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

 

New Kurdistan contains huge water reservoirs nearing the Turkish border in the mountains and Mosul as oil &gas capital.

 

You control both (oil&gas + water), you control the whole Northern Syrian and Turkish territory.

 

The actual Turkish part of New Kurdistan was actually given by the Allied Forces to Turkey after WW2 and thus 'taken' from Syria. Idem dito for the more coastal region of Turkish Hatay.

 

In other words, the Allied Forces 'gived' the Syrian regions to Turkey just after WW2.

I expect a new 'thanksgiving' from the Coalition to the Kurds through Syrian or Turkish territory.

Once, part of a mighty empire, Turkey is not going to decrease its landholding. It has already committed mass murder of two ethnic groups in early 20th century in order to fully secure a muslim nation. It regularly murders Kurds, in and out of Turkey. It is supported in this by all the major world powers.  US has not promised the Kurds a land of their own in a national resolution. It may hint locally but it will not happen. Soon as they can, US will ditch the Kurds.  

[Scott]

The US is against an independent Kurdish homeland on paper, but in actual practice, if it happened, it would receive a warm welcome from the US.   The idea of a separate Kurdish area in Northern Iraq was toyed with, but scrapped in favor of autonomy.

 

A Kurdish homeland would have no support from neighboring countries and diplomatically, the US has a lot more to lose than it has to gain by actively assisting in it.   The Kurds run the risk of losing more than they gain by trying.  

 

The Kurds have a great deal of sympathy from many Western countries, but actual help in creating a new country is going to be pretty thin.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Along with many other countries who are part of the coalition.

who all crawl in the backside of the US in the hope they get a few dollars too.

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

who all crawl in the backside of the US in the hope they get a few dollars too.

Cynical as always. At least you are predictable.  LOL.

[simple1]

9 hours ago, Scott said:

The US is against an independent Kurdish homeland on paper, but in actual practice, if it happened, it would receive a warm welcome from the US.   The idea of a separate Kurdish area in Northern Iraq was toyed with, but scrapped in favor of autonomy.

 

A Kurdish homeland would have no support from neighboring countries and diplomatically, the US has a lot more to lose than it has to gain by actively assisting in it.   The Kurds run the risk of losing more than they gain by trying.  

 

The Kurds have a great deal of sympathy from many Western countries, but actual help in creating a new country is going to be pretty thin.

There appears to be very complex political alliances over the years between the various Kurdish groups, differing Islamic interpretations, some Kurdish Islamist groups, warfare between groups and likelihood of combat again between factions, hostility from neighbours etc etc Doesn't look like good for the Kurdish peoples in general anytime soon.

Edited August 20, 2017 by simple1

[Scott]

In spite of the overwhelming support that the Kurds have from many Western countries, they are not significantly different from many of the groups in the ME (and the rest of the world for that matter).   They tend to have strong family/clan/tribal loyalties. 

 

They have a significant division between the major linguistic groups, although they are able to speak and understand each other.   

 

The KDP and PUK spent years fighting one another, once they had no reason to fight Saddam.   They could cooperate against a common enemy, but in fighting is common once that threat is removed.  

 

I suspect if there was a homeland established, it would experience some significant teething pains in its infancy.

 

The one strength that they do seem to have is a sense of pragmatism that is less common in other groups in the ME.  

[craigt3365]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

There appears to be very complex political alliances over the years between the various Kurdish groups, differing Islamic interpretations, some Kurdish Islamist groups, warfare between groups and likelihood of combat again between factions, hostility from neighbours etc etc Doesn't look like good for the Kurdish peoples in general anytime soon.

It's very complex, something that many here don't seem to understand. It's educational to review the various treaties over the years between the various colonial powers. Russia, UK, France, etc, carving territory up after various wars. My guess would be that these have had significant impacts on the current situation.