Statue defaced as U.S. Confederate monument protests grow

[webfact]

Statue defaced as U.S. Confederate monument protests grow

By Ian Simpson

 

Damage done to the face of a statue of Confederate commander General Robert E. Lee is seen, at Duke University's Duke Chapel in Durham, North Carolina, U.S. August 17, 2017. REUTERS/Jonathan Drake

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee was defaced at North Carolina's Duke University and there were more arrests on Thursday over the toppling of a similar statue as communities in the U.S. South faced a contentious debate over such divisive monuments.

 

The discovery came as President Donald Trump stoked the controversy over the statues, echoing white nationalists by decrying the removal of what he said were "beautiful" monuments to the pro-slavery Confederacy.

 

The statue of Lee at the Duke Chapel in Durham, North Carolina, was found early on Thursday with its nose and other facial features chipped off, the university said in a statement. Lee led the Confederate Army during the American Civil War.

 

The university said that surveillance camera footage was being reviewed for clues as to who was behind the attack on the statue, which stands by the chapel entrance. Security around the site is also being stepped up.

 

A fresh debate over Confederate symbols has roiled the United States since Saturday's violence during a protest by white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia, against the removal of a Lee statue in which one woman died.

 

Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer is due to make an announcement on Friday about the statue, public safety at future events, and the legacy of Heather Heyer, the 32-year-old woman who was killed, Signer's office said in a statement.

 

Also in Durham, four people surrendered on Thursday to face rioting and other charges stemming from the toppling of a statue of a Confederate soldier by protesters there, the Durham County Sheriff's Office said in a statement. That brought the number arrested in connection with Monday's toppling to eight.

 

More than 100 people meanwhile staged a peaceful demonstration at the local courthouse, the sheriff's office said. Many of them claimed they were involved in Monday's action and demanded to be arrested too, according to local news reports and footage posted on social media.

 

"Deputies did not arrest rally participants who approached them claiming responsibility for the destruction of a historical statue," the sheriff's office said in its statement.

 

In Helena, Montana, the city council voted on Wednesday to remove a Confederate fountain from a park. Democratic Governor Steve Bullock said the decision marked the removal of the last monument to the Confederacy in the northwest Rocky Mountains.

 

San Diego city officials on Wednesday also removed a plaque to Confederate President Jefferson Davis from a downtown plaza, local media said.

 

In Arizona, tar and feathers coated a monument for the Jefferson Davis Memorial Highway, about 40 miles east of Phoenix, local TV news footage showed.

 

(Editing by Daniel Wallis and Matthew Lewis; Editing by Michael Perry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-08-18

[bert bloggs]

I see the permanantly"outraged" are off again .

[halloween]

Would these be the same people who condemned the destruction of historical monuments by ISIS?

[ilostmypassword]

16 minutes ago, halloween said:

Would these be the same people who condemned the destruction of historical monuments by ISIS?

You mean you don't?

[Katipo]

I abhor any kind of vandalism, and destroying the statues won't erase the shame of slavery. Better to leave them their as a constant reminder of past mistakes, so they won't be made again.....

 

 

...although, looking at the US today ...... 

[12DrinkMore]

Apropos,

 

wonder if they are going to erect a statue of Trump.

 

I doubt if there would be any objectors if it got pulled down and demolished. Most people seem to want that done to him anyway.

[Meljames]

4 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

wonder if they are going to erect a statue of Trump.

 

  NYC will erect one at of Fresh Kills Landfill.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Meljames

[goldenbrwn1]

These (millennial) students encouraged by their lunatic far left teachers/professors or what not are completely deluded. They are obsessed with race and overly encourage racial thinking at every opportunity, be it now or historical. They think you should interact with people depending on what colour/gender/sexuality they are and that you contantly watch your language depending on what individual you are talking too.  They just love to encourage this constant racial thinking where as the students of anti establishment thinking and protests in yesteryears 60s/70s was all about the person and the character of that person ... not race or skin colour.

 

'I look to a day when people will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character'...can't remember who said that....? But this is exactly the opposite these new movements across college campuses around the world are indirectly doing. 

 

I of course like everyone I'm sure on this forum totally condemn far right nationalist  and Nazis and other extreme groups inc Antifa.  The government should just remove the monuments that need removing quietly and then hopefully remove the possibility of violent protests.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[thaihome]

58 minutes ago, halloween said:

Would these be the same people who condemned the destruction of historical monuments by ISIS?

It seems that certain posters have pretty much settled on two forms of debate.

False equivalency (as here) and whataboutism which will likely be in the response to this post.

?

TH 

[jesimps]

57 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

These (millennial) students encouraged by their lunatic far left teachers/professors or what not are completely deluded. They are obsessed with race and overly encourage racial thinking at every opportunity, be it now or historical. They think you should interact with people depending on what colour/gender/sexuality they are and that you contantly watch your language depending on what individual you are talking too.  They just love to encourage this constant racial thinking where as the students of anti establishment thinking and protests in yesteryears 60s/70s was all about the person and the character of that person ... not race or skin colour.

 

'I look to a day when people will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character'...can't remember who said that....? But this is exactly the opposite these new movements across college campuses around the world are indirectly doing. 

 

I of course like everyone I'm sure on this forum totally condemn far right nationalist  and Nazis and other extreme groups inc Antifa.  The government should just remove the monuments that need removing quietly and then hopefully remove the possibility of violent protests.

 

 

 

 

 

I liked your post until the last sentence. Would you also agree to bonfires of books? It's next on the leftist's  agenda I'm certain.

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by jesimps

[Baerboxer]

18 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I liked your post until the last sentence. Would you also agree to bonfires of books? It's next on the leftist's  agenda I'm certain.

 

 

Sadly that's not too far away as many might imagine. We have already seen children's books banned in the UK as they aren't considered politically correct.

 

Given the opportunity I'm sure the extreme left and pc liberals would destroy literature they don't approve of. And ensure school subject contents only taught what they approved of. Such is their conviction that only their opinions are correct and allowable.

[iReason]

36 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Would you also agree to bonfires of books?

It's next on the leftists agenda I'm certain.

 

Certain you say?

 

Hysterical bluster.

[goldenbrwn1]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

I liked your post until the last sentence. Would you also agree to bonfires of books? It's next on the leftists agenda I'm certain.

 

My edits have stopped being available  ...I'm not fond of it either tbh. But there has to be a middle ground and a meetings of minds on both sides. Common sense must prevail.

Edited August 18, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[billd766]

2 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

These (millennial) students encouraged by their lunatic far left teachers/professors or what not are completely deluded. They are obsessed with race and overly encourage racial thinking at every opportunity, be it now or historical. They think you should interact with people depending on what colour/gender/sexuality they are and that you contantly watch your language depending on what individual you are talking too.  They just love to encourage this constant racial thinking where as the students of anti establishment thinking and protests in yesteryears 60s/70s was all about the person and the character of that person ... not race or skin colour.

 

'I look to a day when people will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character'...can't remember who said that....? But this is exactly the opposite these new movements across college campuses around the world are indirectly doing. 

 

I of course like everyone I'm sure on this forum totally condemn far right nationalist  and Nazis and other extreme groups inc Antifa.  The government should just remove the monuments that need removing quietly and then hopefully remove the possibility of violent protests.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth297516.html

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Sadly that's not too far away as many might imagine. We have already seen children's books banned in the UK as they aren't considered politically correct.

 

Given the opportunity I'm sure the extreme left and pc liberals would destroy literature they don't approve of. And ensure school subject contents only taught what they approved of. Such is their conviction that only their opinions are correct and allowable.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/6573855/BBC-banned-Enid-Blyton-for-30-years.html

 

Blyton, the creator of the Famous Five, the Secret Seven and Noddy, was kept off the radio by executives who dismissed her plays and books as lacking "literary value" and being "such very small beer".

The censorship has been revealed in a series of letters and memos released from the BBC archives.

In one internal memo dated 1938, Jean Sutcliffe, head of the BBC Schools department, wrote: "My impression of her stories is that they might do for Children's Hour but certainly not for Schools Dept they haven't much literary value."

She thought they were no more than "competently written".

"There is rather a lot of the Pinky-winky-Doodle-doodle Dum-dumm type of name (and lots of pixies) in the original tales," she concluded.

 

Two years later, in August 1940, Blyton's play The Monkey and the Barrel Organ was rejected for broadcast on the popular daily radio programme Children's Hour.

 

Edited for Fair Use

Edited August 18, 2017 by Scott
Edited for Fair Use

[Meljames]

Quote

 

"We don't want people to think that they can hide behind Robert E. Lee's name and his life for these senseless acts of violence that occurred on Saturday," Lee says.

The Lee heir says it would make sense to remove the embattled statue from public display and put it in a museum—a view shared by the great-great-grandson of Jefferson Davis.

 

"I think that is absolutely an option, to move it to a museum and put it in the proper historical context," Lee says. "Times were very different then. We look at the institution of slavery, and it's absolutely horrendous. Back then, times were just extremely different. We understand that it's complicated in 2017, when you look back at that period of time...  If you want to put statues of General Lee or other Confederate people in museums, that makes good sense."

Lee, who works as a boys' athletic director at the Potomac School outside Washington D.C., says that his family was raised to believe that his great-great-grandfather "was fighting for his homeland of Virginia" and not for the preservation of slavery.

http://www.newsweek.com/robert-e-lee-statue-charlottesville-donald-trump-white-nationalists-651208

 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Scott

[Lokie]

I hear all going on about how bad Trump is and his is guilty of this and that, but seems he just said what is happening... The violence can not be condoned nor any form of racism, but hang on? - it seems is quite alright to rip down statues to the past generations (CSA) and hardly anything is said about that? Its your history (right or wrong) so it will be interesting to see where this is all going to stop, did any of your original leaders not own/have slaves...?

 

Seems one rule for the left (free to commit unlawful actions and one rule for others - all hypocrites) I thought US citizens pride themselves on defending ones right to have an opinion even if it is not the same as theirs...? is that not right then anymore...?

 

Im from UK, and yes our country was built on the back of slavery and pillaging of various countries we controlled over time but we can not change that, it happened,

[rijb]

4 minutes ago, Lokie said:

I hear all going on about how bad Trump is and his is guilty of this and that, but seems he just said what is happening... The violence can not be condoned nor any form of racism, but hang on? - it seems is quite alright to rip down statues to the past generations (CSA) and hardly anything is said about that? Its your history (right or wrong) so it will be interesting to see where this is all going to stop, did any of your original leaders not own/have slaves...?

 

Seems one rule for the left (free to commit unlawful actions and one rule for others - all hypocrites) I thought US citizens pride themselves on defending ones right to have an opinion even if it is not the same as theirs...? is that not right then anymore...?

 

Im from UK, and yes our country was built on the back of slavery and pillaging of various countries we controlled over time but we can not change that, it happened,

People are free to burn the American flag.  A few statues don't mean shit.

[iReason]

18 minutes ago, Lokie said:

it seems is quite alright to rip down statues to the past generations (CSA) and hardly anything is said about that? Its your history (right or wrong) so it will be interesting to see where this is all going to stop, did any of your original leaders not own/have slaves...?

 

Gen. Lee and his ilk were traitors. Period.

 

Show me another country who has erected and maintained glorious statues of people who have been traitors to them.

 

Sheesh...

[goldenbrwn1]

2 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Gen. Lee and his ilk were traitors. Period.

 

Show me another country who has erected and maintained glorious statues of people who have been traitors to them.

 

Sheesh...

Russia.

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

38 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Russia.

 

 

 

 

But you won't see them in Leningrad or Stalingrad.

[iReason]

2 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Russia.

 

Perfect! 

 

That's all ya got?

[Lokie]

2 hours ago, iReason said:

 

Gen. Lee and his ilk were traitors. Period.

 

Show me another country who has erected and maintained glorious statues of people who have been traitors to them.

 

Sheesh...

And if the CSA had won your civil war...? Dosn't seem they were traitors to their homeland, and their values, so is you a Dam Yankee?

 

If its a slave thing then half the Union families with power were running operations on the backs of slave labour, whether in bondage or on subsistence pay, don't really matter, still lived off the backs of those poor people, anyway back on track, as an outsider it seems strange that people want to remove statues that have been there over 100 years, like y'all in denial or something... Embrace your history, move on and make good

[Opl]

3 hours ago, Lokie said:

I hear all going on about how bad Trump is and his is guilty of this and that, but seems he just said what is happening... The violence can not be condoned nor any form of racism, but hang on? - it seems is quite alright to rip down statues to the past generations (CSA) and hardly anything is said about that? Its your history (right or wrong) so it will be interesting to see where this is all going to stop, did any of your original leaders not own/have slaves...?

 

Seems one rule for the left (free to commit unlawful actions and one rule for others - all hypocrites) I thought US citizens pride themselves on defending ones right to have an opinion even if it is not the same as theirs...? is that not right then anymore...?

 

Im from UK, and yes our country was built on the back of slavery and pillaging of various countries we controlled over time but we can not change that, it happened,

 

Because Trump is supposed to be the "leader of the free world", what he does and says trespasses Us frontiers.

We - from the rest of the free world - expect a little bit more than ' he just said what is happening"

It's both a political and a cultural strong choice: is racism a matter of opinion , or/and is racism an offense ?

To Trump, as his acts and words reveal, "racism"  is the easy way to catch supporters when he fails to fullfill his electoral  promises

 

" it’s up to white people to make a choice—will they share the country and its story, or will they reject equality for hierarchy and caste?"

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/white_americans_can_end_the_fight_over_confederate_monuments.html

Edited August 18, 2017 by Opl

[Scott]

A reply to a quote that violates Fair Use has been removed.   Please stay on the topic and the topic isn't about burning or banning books.  

[iReason]

12 minutes ago, Lokie said:

And if the CSA had won your civil war...? Dosn't seem they were traitors to their homeland, and their values, so is you a Dam Yankee?

If its a slave thing then half the Union families with power were running operations on the backs of slave labour, whether in bondage or on subsistence pay, don't really matter, still lived off the backs of those poor people, anyway back on track, as an outsider it seems strange that people want to remove statues that have been there over 100 years, like y'all in denial or something... 

 

They were traitors to The United States of America.

 

"[Robert E.] Lee was a top graduate of the United States Military Academy and an exceptional officer and military engineer

in the United States Army for 32 years."

"During this time, he served throughout the United States, distinguished himself during the Mexican–American War,

and served as Superintendent of the United States Military Academy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

 

A stellar soilder, Lee was asked to lead the United States Army when the conflict arose.

He deserted and chose to take up arms against his brethren, the United States Army he had served for 32 years, and the United States.

He is a traitor.

 

Lee's statue was erected in 1924. Some 60 years after the war.

And all of them in the early 20th century. Starting in 1903.

 

y'all are uninformed.

[Lokie]

5 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

They were traitors to The United States of America.

 

"[Robert E.] Lee was a top graduate of the United States Military Academy and an exceptional officer and military engineer

in the United States Army for 32 years."

"During this time, he served throughout the United States, distinguished himself during the Mexican–American War,

and served as Superintendent of the United States Military Academy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

 

A stellar soilder, Lee was asked to lead the United States Army when the conflict arose.

He deserted and chose to take up arms against his brethren, the United States Army he had served for 32 years, and the United States.

He is a traitor.

 

Lee's statue was erected in 1924. Some 60 years after the war.

And all of them in the early 20th century. Starting in 1903.

 

y'all are uninformed.

Well he must have had a BiG pair of Gonads then, or maybe just made a wrong career move lol... Well no-one should be defacing and ripping down these statues IMO, if the people will it then remove them legally by due process, not by the mob.

 

You lot would have been better off under our guiding hand... Bloody colonials... lol

[iReason]

5 minutes ago, Lokie said:

Well he must have had a BiG pair of Gonads then, or maybe just made a wrong career move lol... Well no-one should be defacing and ripping down these statues IMO, if the people will it then remove them legally by due process, not by the mob.

 

You lot would have been better off under our guiding hand... Bloody colonials... lol

 

I agree. The statues should not be defaced by a mob.

They should be preserved as an art form. In a museum.

But not as a monument in a town square.

 

Footnote:

Lee's father fought against you guys in the Revolutionary War. 

Ouch.

[Lokie]

1 minute ago, iReason said:

 

I agree. The statues should not be defaced by a mob.

They should be preserved as an art form. In a museum.

But not as a monument in a town square.

 

Footnote:

Lee's father fought against you guys in the Revolutionary War. 

Ouch.

Yeah but at that time we had an idiot of a King who like most politicians who came later never really gave the 'British Redcoats' the full backing of the empire with all its resources (never underestimate your enemy and all that) so you got off likely and eventually won the day.

[boomerangutang]

6 hours ago, jesimps said:

I liked your post until the last sentence. Would you also agree to bonfires of books? It's next on the leftists agenda I'm certain.

Book burning has always been the abode of right-wingers. I've never heard of leftists burning books, and it's not happening now.

 

On a side note:  Seeing the photo of Lee's defaced statue reminds me of Pharoe (and their consorts) statues defaced, in ancient Egypt.