moving back to uk

[ancharee]

Hi, I am new to this forum but I would be grateful for any advice from any members who can help,

I have been married to my Thai wife for 6 years and we have a 3 year old boy, already have his UK passport, I have a marriage visa.

Due to circumstances I am considering moving back to the UK with my wife and son, I have 3 years before I reach state pension age, on returning I would have no job or income I would be staying with family until we were able to find our own accommodation, It all sounds scary to me as I have been living in Thailand 10 years now and it seems the UK keep changing the goal posts regarding immigration,

If anyone has any up to date information regarding this kind of situation I would be most grateful.

Thanks, Alex

[theoldgit]

You'll need to demonstrate that you meet the minimum income requirement of £18,600 per year, or have cash savings, for your wife to be issued with a Settlement Visa.

The application fee is in the region of US$1990 and in addition your wife will need to pay a NHS Surcharge of £600.

She will need to pass a basic English Language test and get a certificate to confirm she's free from TB.

You seem to be aware that you need to provide confirmation of suitable accommodation.

Once your wife has her visa she needs to get to the UK within 30 days and collect her Biometric Resident Permit.

She can apply for Further Leave to Remain after 30 months and the Indefinite Leave to remain after a further 30 months.

The goalposts haven't changed for some years, though the prices increase annually.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[NanLaew]

Good and concise info from tog once again.

 

There's also at least 2 very good and informative threads by members who similarly bit the bullet and went home with the tribe. I'll see if I can find them and post links. Here they are.

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by NanLaew

[ancharee]

54 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

You'll need to demonstrate that you meet the minimum income requirement of £18,600 per year, or have cash savings, for your wife to be issued with a Settlement Visa.

The application fee is in the region of US$1990 and in addition your wife will need to pay a NHS Surcharge of £600.

She will need to pass a basic English Language test and get a certificate to confirm she's free from TB.

You seem to be aware that you need to provide confirmation of suitable accommodation.

Once your wife has her visa she needs to get to the UK within 30 days and collect her Biometric Resident Permit.

She can apply for Further Leave to Remain after 30 months and the Indefinite Leave to remain after a further 30 months.

The goalposts haven't changed for some years, though the prices increase annually.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Thank you for the advice

[ancharee]

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Good and concise info from tog once again.

 

There's also at least 2 very good and informative threads by members who similarly bit the bullet and went home with the tribe. I'll see if I can find them and post links.

Thank's

[ancharee]

59 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

You'll need to demonstrate that you meet the minimum income requirement of £18,600 per year, or have cash savings, for your wife to be issued with a Settlement Visa.

The application fee is in the region of US$1990 and in addition your wife will need to pay a NHS Surcharge of £600.

She will need to pass a basic English Language test and get a certificate to confirm she's free from TB.

You seem to be aware that you need to provide confirmation of suitable accommodation.

Once your wife has her visa she needs to get to the UK within 30 days and collect her Biometric Resident Permit.

She can apply for Further Leave to Remain after 30 months and the Indefinite Leave to remain after a further 30 months.

The goalposts haven't changed for some years, though the prices increase annually.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

I assume if you don't meet the financial requirements then you cant take your Thai family back with you

[NanLaew]

21 minutes ago, ancharee said:

Thank's

The first thread looks like it loses the plot half-way due to the ubiquitous Thai and Brit bashers.

The second thread also refers you to the TV members informative blog.

The following is a link to another forum that tog mentioned as being handy.

 

http://britishexpats.com/forum/moving-back-uk-61/

 

 

18 minutes ago, ancharee said:

I assume if you don't meet the financial requirements then you cant take your Thai family back with you

Not very easily, no. And the alternatives also need time and money.

[theoldgit]

Nonsense post removed, don't let's go there.

[NanLaew]

13 minutes ago, ancharee said:

Unfortunately I fall into the latter category

I wouldn't encourage the trolls as the thread will quickly enough be hijacked by those with no intent of, or clue about moving back to fair Albion along with those who have never been here, and are trolling from the basement bedsit of their nan's gaff in Grimsby.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, ancharee said:

I assume if you don't meet the financial requirements then you cant take your Thai family back with you

I'm afraid so; unless you can satisfy UKVI that an exception should be made in your wife's case; which is very difficult to do.

 

You only have to meet the requirement for your wife; your son, being British, doesn't need a visa to live in the UK so is not included in the financial requirement. Like you, he does not need to pay the health surcharge either.

 

The financial requirement has to be met when applying for her initial visa, again when applying for Further Leave to Remain after 30 months in the UK and again when she applies for Indefinite Leave to Remain 30 months after FLR.

 

If using earned income, employed or self employed, then for the initial visa only your income can be used; but for both FLR and ILR your wife's earned income, if any, can be used instead of or in combination with yours.

 

If using unearned income, such as property rental or investment income, or income from a pension or cash savings then these can be in your name, hers or you both jointly for each stage.

 

Any income you have been receiving whilst living in Thailand can be used, providing it will continue once you have moved to the UK.

 

However, if you or your child are in receipt of certain UK state benefits, for example DLA, then you can meet the financial requirement through adequate maintenance. This means there is no minimum income or savings required, but you will have to show you can support your wife without claiming any public funds other than those you or your son already receive,

 

For full details, see the financial requirement appendix.

 

See also the relevant to you parts of Family visas: apply, extend or switch

 

Staying with your family should not be a problem; provided they can show that there is at least one room for the exclusive use of you and your wife and another for your son.

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by 7by7

[ancharee]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I'm afraid so.

 

You only have to meet the requirement for your wife; your son, being British, doesn't need a visa to live in the UK so is not included in the financial requirement. Like you, he does not need to pay the health surcharge either.

 

The financial requirement has to be met when applying for her initial visa, again when applying for Further Leave to Remain after 30 months in the UK and again when she applies for Indefinite Leave to Remain 30 months after FLR.

 

If using earned income, employed or self employed, then for the initial visa only your income can be used; but for both FLR and ILR your wife's earned income, if any, can be used instead of or in combination with yours.

 

If using unearned income, such as property rental or investment income, or income from a pension or cash savings then these can be in your name, hers or you both jointly for each stage.

 

Any income you have been receiving whilst living in Thailand can be used, providing it will continue once you have moved to the UK.

 

However, if you or your child are in receipt of certain UK state benefits, for example DLA, then you can meet the financial requirement through adequate maintenance. This means there is no minimum income or savings required, but you will have to show you can support your wife without claiming any public funds other than those you or your son already receive,

 

For full details, see the financial requirement appendix.

 

See also the relevant to you parts of Family visas: apply, extend or switch

 

Thanks' again,

[laislica]

Sounds like a tough road ahead.

 

Just one thing.

When applying for a visa for your wife.

It is vital that you leave the Imm Officer in NO DOUBT whatsoever, that you meet the requirements.

The application must be very clear, no grey areas.

They seem to be overloaded with work and have very little time to try to understand an application that is somewhat vague.

They have no time to phone you to ask for detail.

You have no right (as far as I have understood) to take your unscheduled territories wife to your home country.

The visa procedure is far from routine.

 

If all else fails, perhaps look into moving to a friendly European country and establishing yourselves there.

After a time, as EU residents,  perhaps you could relocate to the UK?

Not sure if this could be a permanent solution.

7 x 7 may be able to clarify.

He has given me excellent advice before.

 

My Thai wife is 55 and there is no way that she could pass the English tests.

We are residents in Spain and have Spanish ID No.s

Shortly after arriving in Spain, (2013) we applied for a general visitors visa for a two-three week visit to see family and friends.

It was refused in this letter (extract without personal details),

I'm sure that our error was in applying too soon

I think they needed to feel that our centre of life was really Spain.....:

 

REFUSAL OF ENTRY CLEARANCE
Your Application
You have applied for an entry clearance as a visitor to the United Kingdom for 2-3 weeks. I have considered your application against paragraph 41 of the Immigration Rules. You can read these Rules at: www.ukba.homeoffice.qov.uk/policvandlaw/immiqrationlaw/immiqrationrules/.
Guidance that explains the types of documents, in addition to the application form, which might give a visa applicant the best opportunity to show that their circumstances are as they have set out is available at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.ukA/isitinqtheuk/visitors/documents.
In assessing your individual application, it has not been necessary to interview you. However I have taken account of:
•    the financial and employment information as declared by you on your application form
•    your passport and travel history
•    your family circumstances and
•    the supporting documents you provided.
I have used all the information presented to determine if the Immigration Rules have been met. In reaching my decision, which has been made on the balance of probabilities, I note the following points:
The Decision
>    You have stated that you depend on your husband in Spain. However, you have provided no evidence regarding where you live or your husband’s financial situation. Therefore, I am not satisfied that you have, on the balance of probabilities, sufficiently strong economic ties to Spain to satisfy me that only a short stay is intended and that you intend to leave the UK on completion of your visit. 41 (ii)
>    You have provided no evidence of your source of income or financial situation or those of your husband. Therefore, I am not satisfied that you will maintain and accommodate yourself without recourse to employment or public funds or will, with any dependants, be maintained and/or accommodated adequately by relatives or friends who can demonstrate they are able and intend to do so, and are legally present in the United Kingdom, or will be at the time of their visit 41 (vi) or that you can meet the cost of the return or onward journey 41 (vii)
I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, that you meet all of the requirements of the relevant Paragraph of the United Kingdom Immigration Rules.
Your right of appeal is limited to the grounds referred to in section 84(1 )(c) of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (www.leqislation.gov.uk).

 

HOWEVER.

We have since entered the UK twice, this year.

Once by air, we only spent a few hours in a London hotel.

This was our test to see if the EU freedom of movement would work for us, and it did.

Secondly by car and we stayed for a couple of weeks.

On arrival at Newhaven, the Imm Officer suggested that we apply for a free EEA visa for my wife's passport so that future visits would be easier.

Since we don't intend to visit many times, I feel it's not worth the cost of travel (1,200 Km round trip to Madrid, plus hotel etc).

My wife will renew her PP in Thailand next year but we shall be sure to take it with us if we visit the UK again, to show the stamps and that we didn't overstay etc.

 

My heart goes out to you and I feel that the knee jerk reaction by the UK Law Makers to penalise our legal wives like they do is just wrong, but it is what it is.

 

The best of luck to you.

 

 

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, laislica said:

If all else fails, perhaps look into moving to a friendly European country and establishing yourselves there.

After a time, as EU residents,  perhaps you could relocate to the UK?

Not sure if this could be a permanent solution.

7 x 7 may be able to clarify

 At the moment, this is certainly a possibility, and a route used in the past by many who have been unable to meet the UK's financial requirement. It will be cheaper, too, as there will be no application fees!

 

See Apply for an EEA family permit from outside the UK 6. Surinder Singh.

 

But what the situation will be post Brexit is anyone's guess. I suspect that British nationals living in other EEA states will be able to remain, and vice versa, but seriously doubt that they would be able to use the Surinder Singh judgement to return to the UK with their non British family members. That judgement was, after all, a judgement of the ECJ and thus became part of the EU's freedom of movement regulations. When the UK is no longer a member of the EU, there is no reason to suppose it will still apply to British nationals.

[The Dark Lord]

7 hours ago, theoldgit said:

You'll need to demonstrate that you meet the minimum income requirement of £18,600 per year, or have cash savings, for your wife to be issued with a Settlement Visa.

The application fee is in the region of US$1990 and in addition your wife will need to pay a NHS Surcharge of £600.

She will need to pass a basic English Language test and get a certificate to confirm she's free from TB.

You seem to be aware that you need to provide confirmation of suitable accommodation.

Once your wife has her visa she needs to get to the UK within 30 days and collect her Biometric Resident Permit.

She can apply for Further Leave to Remain after 30 months and the Indefinite Leave to remain after a further 30 months.

The goalposts haven't changed for some years, though the prices increase annually.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

That is very useful info. Many thanks

 

big problems are the NHS who are a total pain. I moved back to the UK after 4 years in the land of greed and got DVT en route. A doctors appointment cost me £70 per 10 minutes followed by a prescription at an eye watering £137 . 

 

Fortunately my new doctor is a star and fixed it such that I now am an NHS recipient but it rankles after having paid a massive amount if ££££ in my life into the system through NI and Income tax  to be treated worse than an immigrant in my own country. 

[brewsterbudgen]

That is very useful info. Many thanks
 
big problems are the NHS who are a total pain. I moved back to the UK after 4 years in the land of greed and got DVT en route. A doctors appointment cost me £70 per 10 minutes followed by a prescription at an eye watering £137 . 
 
Fortunately my new doctor is a star and fixed it such that I now am an NHS recipient but it rankles after having paid a massive amount if ££££ in my life into the system through NI and Income tax  to be treated worse than an immigrant in my own country. 

Surely if you can show that you have returned to the UK permanently, you are entitled to free NHS care?

[The Dark Lord]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

Surely if you can show that you have returned to the UK permanently, you are entitled to free NHS care?

Eventually but certainly not immediately as your records would have been sent to the central filing place ( or google!) during your absence.

 

 

How can you prove you moved back permanently?

 

I have an NHS number, an address but needed a letter from the bank and/or utility suppliers etc before they would act. Fill out a four page questionnaire including multiple choices on gender you declare yourself to be but until that has been cleared ( and no bugger will write to tell you that you are now back on line) you pay. Fortunately my doctor has an excellent reception and practice management so mine was expedited. In the interim however.......

[ancharee]

Thanks' to all for your advice it's been very helpful.

[bazza73]

Perhaps the OP needs to think of another strategy; e.g. moving back to the UK by himself. It depends on what his objectives are. When dealing with a bureaucracy, one needs to develop options.

 

" Bureaucracies are necessary to protect those who really wield power from being accountable". ( James Lee Burke )

[laislica]

 At the moment, this is certainly a possibility, and a route used in the past by many who have been unable to meet the UK's financial requirement. It will be cheaper, too, as there will be no application fees!
 
See Apply for an EEA family permit from outside the UK 6. Surinder Singh.
 
But what the situation will be post Brexit is anyone's guess. I suspect that British nationals living in other EEA states will be able to remain, and vice versa, but seriously doubt that they would be able to use the Surinder Singh judgement to return to the UK with their non British family members. That judgement was, after all, a judgement of the ECJ and thus became part of the EU's freedom of movement regulations. When the UK is no longer a member of the EU, there is no reason to suppose it will still apply to British nationals.

Except, why should things change too much?
I made my first trip to Paris in 1955 with school and I don't think a visa was needed then?


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[7by7]

2 hours ago, laislica said:

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 11:01 AM, 7by7 said:

See Apply for an EEA family permit from outside the UK 6. Surinder Singh.

 

But what the situation will be post Brexit is anyone's guess. I suspect that British nationals living in other EEA states will be able to remain, and vice versa, but seriously doubt that they would be able to use the Surinder Singh judgement to return to the UK with their non British family members. That judgement was, after all, a judgement of the ECJ and thus became part of the EU's freedom of movement regulations. When the UK is no longer a member of the EU, there is no reason to suppose it will still apply to British nationals.

Except, why should things change too much?
I made my first trip to Paris in 1955 with school and I don't think a visa was needed then?

 There is a massive difference between visiting a country as a tourist and moving there to take up residence. The UK, for example, allows certain non EEA nationalities, Australian for example, to visit the UK for up to 6 months as a tourist without obtaining a visa in advance. But if they want to live, work or study here they need the appropriate visa first; the same as, for example, a Thai.

 

Had you and your family wished to move to Paris to live in 1955, before the UK became a member of what was then the EEC, you would not have benefited from any freedom of movement treaty rights and so would have needed whatever visa the French at that time required.

 

Of course, the position regarding freedom of movement between the UK and the EEA remains to be negotiated. But as EU immigration was a major reason for many voting Leave, do you really think the UK government will simply agree to keep things as they are now?

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by 7by7

[denby45]

On 8/21/2017 at 10:41 AM, theoldgit said:

You'll need to demonstrate that you meet the minimum income requirement of £18,600 per year, or have cash savings, for your wife to be issued with a Settlement Visa.

The application fee is in the region of US$1990 and in addition your wife will need to pay a NHS Surcharge of £600.

She will need to pass a basic English Language test and get a certificate to confirm she's free from TB.

You seem to be aware that you need to provide confirmation of suitable accommodation.

Once your wife has her visa she needs to get to the UK within 30 days and collect her Biometric Resident Permit.

She can apply for Further Leave to Remain after 30 months and the Indefinite Leave to remain after a further 30 months.

The goalposts haven't changed for some years, though the prices increase annually.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

That figure of 18,600 minimum income to live on highlights the shortcomings of the UK state pension. Also just imagine if you had to rely on income from savings to meet the requirement. You would have to have at least 1,860,000 quid in the bank at today's paltry interest rates.

 

Den 

[theoldgit]

20 minutes ago, denby45 said:

That figure of 18,600 minimum income to live on highlights the shortcomings of the UK state pension. Also just imagine if you had to rely on income from savings to meet the requirement. You would have to have at least 1,860,000 quid in the bank at today's paltry interest rates.

Yes maybe, but let's not discuss that here, there's another thread on UK Pensions in the Home Country Forum.

 

Please let's keep to answering the question put by the OP.

[7by7]

Point taken, og; but if I may clarify something.

2 hours ago, denby45 said:

Also just imagine if you had to rely on income from savings to meet the requirement. You would have to have at least 1,860,000 quid in the bank at today's paltry interest rates.

Whilst investment income can be used to meet the financial requirement, if using cash savings rather than, or in combination with, income it is the amount of savings held which counts, not the income they generate. 

 

If using savings alone, then a minimum of £62,500 is required. If combining savings and income, then savings above £16,000 can be used to reduce the amount of income required; but note that cash savings and self employed income cannot be combined in this way. See 7.2. Calculating Cash Savings – Appendix FM.

 

Still substantial amounts, but a lot less than £1,860,000!

[Mister Fixit]

On 8/21/2017 at 6:27 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

Surely if you can show that you have returned to the UK permanently, you are entitled to free NHS care?

 

You'd need to pass the Habitual Residence Test to get free NHS care until you could prove you are now established permanently in the UK.  

[Mister Fixit]

On 8/22/2017 at 2:27 PM, laislica said:

Except, why should things change too much?
I made my first trip to Paris in 1955 with school and I don't think a visa was needed then?
 

 

It almost certainly was, but as a schoolkid, you wouldn't have known anything about it, and the school would have sorted all that out.  

[denby45]

On 8/23/2017 at 4:45 PM, 7by7 said:

Point taken, og; but if I may clarify something.

Whilst investment income can be used to meet the financial requirement, if using cash savings rather than, or in combination with, income it is the amount of savings held which counts, not the income they generate. 

 

If using savings alone, then a minimum of £62,500 is required. If combining savings and income, then savings above £16,000 can be used to reduce the amount of income required; but note that cash savings and self employed income cannot be combined in this way. See 7.2. Calculating Cash Savings – Appendix FM.

 

Still substantial amounts, but a lot less than £1,860,000!

Thanks for that info. about the 62.5 grand, I wasn't aware of that criteria. Seems more manageable.

 

Also the point I was trying to make in my first sentence and maybe it didn't come across like that, was obviously if you have to rely on state pension alone then you have absolutely no chance.

 

Den

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, denby45 said:

Thanks for that info. about the 62.5 grand, I wasn't aware of that criteria. Seems more manageable.

 

Also the point I was trying to make in my first sentence and maybe it didn't come across like that, was obviously if you have to rely on state pension alone then you have absolutely no chance.

 

Den

 

 

If all someone has at age 65 years is the State pension then I don't think it is unreasonable to say that you cannot afford to keep a spouse in the UK.