British expats in Thailand feeling the misery as the UK pound drops to record low levels.

[sammieuk1]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You gotta be crazy not to think you can starve people off benefits, obviously lowering them is the way forward, just look at New Zealand, never mind the countries that increased them like Norway, what do they know with their successful ecconomy and happy populace, low crime and high employment, we need to follow the model of New Zealand with their now record levels of crime, record numbers in jail and 1 in 7 now living in poverty, and all just to appease the rabbid express reading dimwits, great idea.

Is that a yes?

[Craig krup]

50 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

7 hours ago, Craig krup said:

If you're a Brit there's one hell of a difference between "funds" and "trusts". If you're holding through Hargreaves Lansdown you'll be humped on expenses and charges on "funds", and - unless you're really cute about how you organize things - they're generally expensive. Closed-end vehicles - investment trusts - are a lot better, as long as you understand a few basic things. 

Only mugs keep investment Funds with Hargreaves. I use Interactive Investor. OEIC Funds and Unit Trusts are pretty much the same without going into detail. Investment Trusts are different altogether.

I keep investment trusts with them. I think it costs £45 a year, or something like that. They suggested that they would treat trusts like funds until me and thousands of others said, Alliance Trust here we come. They keep sending bone emails, however. 

[Kieran00001]

43 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Is that a yes?

 

Never mind darling, it wouldn't concern you.

[Craig krup]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Good, glad to see we are on the same page, and I can only presume then that you also understand that without the likes of working tax credits being spent in staggering sums that we would either have to increase wages which could only be done through increasing taxes which would then cause an exodus of many employers thus switching the tax credit top ups for fully dependent unemployed benefits claimant or alternatively allow people to go hungry, which would it be in your utopia? 

 

Well, I worked as an accountant, studied some Economics at university, and I can honestly say that I've no idea what any of that means. If you increase wages - just like that - you can't sell what you produce and go bust. Domestically consumed services might be a little different - you can't go to Thailand for a haircut - but for most services there are imported substitute goods (DVDs and big TVs instead of the movies). What the hell taxes have to do with wages - other than public sector wages - I've no idea. 

 

I'm about the thickness of a credit card away from abandoning all social media. I've jacked in the Herald, the Guardian's looking like yesterday's news, I think I'm done. It's a dialogue of the deaf. Prose has become the new poetry. Everyone's chucking it out, there's no quality control and nobody's reading any of it closely. 

[Kieran00001]

8 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

Well, I worked as an accountant, studied some Economics at university, and I can honestly say that I've no idea what any of that means. If you increase wages - just like that - you can't sell what you produce and go bust. Domestically consumed services might be a little different - you can't go to Thailand for a haircut - but for most services there are imported substitute goods (DVDs and big TVs instead of the movies). What the hell taxes have to do with wages - other than public sector wages - I've no idea. 

 

I'm about the thickness of a credit card away from abandoning all social media. I've jacked in the Herald, the Guardian's looking like yesterday's news, I think I'm done. It's a dialogue of the deaf. Prose has become the new poetry. Everyone's chucking it out, there's no quality control and nobody's reading any of it closely. 

 

You almost got it, you had the information there but couldn't put it all together for some reason.  In order to increase the wages paid by the profit making corporations we would have to increase the minimum wage, and in order to pay the new minimum wage throughout every sector, including the public sector, we would need to tax the corporations.  The problem being that the profit making corporations threaten to leave if their tax increases, so we are left juggling between topping up inadequate wages or having to meet the burden of fully dependent unemployed.

[champers]

5 hours ago, cmsally said:

Not many economic theories (well not the ones pushed by the media) that refer to overpopulation. It is becoming more and more evident especially if you return to a place after 10/20 yrs. I suppose because big business is relying on purchase numbers to keep them afloat and in profit.

It is also about rural dwellers moving to urban centres in huge numbers. It is also worth a mention that both China and Japan; amongst others; are greatly concerned about falling birth rates. 

People live longer and it could be argued are burdening the young who have to care and pay for them, one way or another.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, mstevens said:

If you are retiring to a foreign country and not planning on working ever again you need to plan until the day you die, and that might be much more than 20 years!

 

I was 58 then and planned on onother 7 working years (I managed 4) and I didn't plan for the crash of 2008 because in 2002 nobody saw that coming.

 

I didn't plan on Brexit in 2002 either as nobody saw that coming back then.

 

No matter how clever or how smart you are, unless you can see 30 years into your future clearly, what you plan for and plan with, is your current knowledge and history to date, how you can achieve what you want for the next 30 years and a huge helping of luck which is the most important thing.

 

Hindsight is great. If I had known in 2002 what I know now I would have planned it differently.

 

I didn't so I have to live with what is and NOT what might have been.

 

You could do all your future planning with all the skills at your disposal and then perhaps get runover by a bus, fall off a tower block, be suicided etc, so all your beautifully laid plans will be worthless to you.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Disagree. PC British people hate Thailand ( read any British newspaper article about Thailand ) and British bureaucrats are right up there with the PC people.

I had an unfortunate experience with a nasty customs wonk that assumed that as a single man arriving from Thailand I was automatically a sex criminal.

I can only assume that they are too stupid to know that the Phillipines also has a huge P4P industry.

 

But the original decision not to update certain countries was made in the early 1950s and not that many people had heard much about Thailand other than the Bridge on the River Kwai film. Even  returning FEPOWs were almost ignored by the government of the times.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

Doesn't the term expat refer to professionals working abroad temporarily?  I thought those who went to live permanently in another country, such as the pensioners who are dependant on the pound, were called immigrants?

 

I live in Thailand and I am not an immigrant. I have a Non Immigrant visa and an extension based on that. I used to work internationally and was an expat then and I still am.

[Craig krup]

27 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You almost got it, you had the information there but couldn't put it all together for some reason.  In order to increase the wages paid by the profit making corporations we would have to increase the minimum wage, and in order to pay the new minimum wage throughout every sector, including the public sector, we would need to tax the corporations.  The problem being that the profit making corporations threaten to leave if their tax increases, so we are left juggling between topping up inadequate wages or having to meet the burden of fully dependent unemployed.

 

Look - begin with the widget. Economists use "widget" as shorthand for thing produced. You can conceive of companies buying the time of workers by giving them some widgets (and keeping some), or workers renting plant and machinery (by giving the owners some widgets. The state grabs a share, and - in the modern world - uses it to buy yet more services for the workers. So the state provides a de facto disincentive for firms to locate - taxes. But basically stuff - output - gets split. The market for stuff depends on the production methods, work ethic, alternative opportunities, and so on, of the world's workers. So you can't make a little metal safe in Coventry and sell it because the cost of all your inputs, especially labour, is too high. The Chinese one is much cheaper. 

 

You talk about "profit making corporations". What would non-profit corporations be? Even the state costs out its projects at a certain rate. Even charities keep accounts which show what de facto return they're getting on their assets. Even a communist state would have to make decisions about how much to divert towards plant and machinery - to try to produce a greater future product - and so reduce present consumption. This will involve looking at the profit, "surplus", or whatever you want to call it. The return on capital has been 5.1% for as long as anyone has looked. All the listed companies in the UK deliver about £85bn in dividends - about enough to eliminate the deficit and prevent the debt from increasing, but no more. A communist revolution which involved seizing all these listed companies would mean next to nothing: we'd still have to go to work for the same number of hours, we just wouldn't be adding to the debt. 

 

You say "in order to pay the new minimum wage throughout every sector, including the public sector, we would need to tax the corporations". You sem to be labouring under a pretty major misunderstanding as to how minimum wages in the private sector work. The employer has to pay that rate, or use machinery (employing nobody), or go abroad, or go out of business. 

 

At root you seem to have some idea that but for the surplus value extracted by the "corporations" we'd all be farting through silk, but - as I say - I'm quite close to jacking all of this in. My coat of arms will show a thousand cats with balls of wool, and me trying to untangle the product. 

[whiteman]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

That would be worse for the UK tax payer as pensioners would then return and become a burden on the NHS.

Ausy and the N.Z. now have a stand down period for how long you have been away from your country and then you have to wait so long b4 you can get any benefit it works on a sliding scale in my case iv been in Thailand nearly 15 years so I have to wait approx 2 to 3 years b4 i can get the gov pension on my return I am not exactly sure but you get the gist of what i mean. other countries will follow they all need to save money any way they can

[Kieran00001]

8 minutes ago, whiteman said:

Ausy and the N.Z. now have a stand down period for how long you have been away from your country and then you have to wait so long b4 you can get any benefit it works on a sliding scale in my case iv been in Thailand nearly 15 years so I have to wait approx 2 to 3 years b4 i can get the gov pension on my return I am not exactly sure but you get the gist of what i mean. other countries will follow they all need to save money any way they can

 

Could you return if you were sick and get treated immediately?

[Kieran00001]

24 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I live in Thailand and I am not an immigrant. I have a Non Immigrant visa and an extension based on that. I used to work internationally and was an expat then and I still am.

 

Pretty sure the terms were not coined from the names of Thai visas, I believe the difference is in intention, if you intend to stay you are an immigrant, if you intend to leave you are an expat.

[billd766]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Pretty sure the terms were not coined from the names of Thai visas, I believe the difference is in intention, if you intend to stay you are an immigrant, if you intend to leave you are an expat.

 

I do intend to stay in Thailand however to become a bona fide immigrant in Thailand is extremely difficult to achieve as the many threads on TVF will show you.

 

Living on a Non Imm O visa and extension is at the will and whim of whichever Thai government is in power at any time and on how they feel that day.

[Kieran00001]

26 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

Look - begin with the widget. Economists use "widget" as shorthand for thing produced. You can conceive of companies buying the time of workers by giving them some widgets (and keeping some), or workers renting plant and machinery (by giving the owners some widgets. The state grabs a share, and - in the modern world - uses it to buy yet more services for the workers. So the state provides a de facto disincentive for firms to locate - taxes. But basically stuff - output - gets split. The market for stuff depends on the production methods, work ethic, alternative opportunities, and so on, of the world's workers. So you can't make a little metal safe in Coventry and sell it because the cost of all your inputs, especially labour, is too high. The Chinese one is much cheaper. 

 

You talk about "profit making corporations". What would non-profit corporations be? Even the state costs out its projects at a certain rate. Even charities keep accounts which show what de facto return they're getting on their assets. Even a communist state would have to make decisions about how much to divert towards plant and machinery - to try to produce a greater future product - and so reduce present consumption. This will involve looking at the profit, "surplus", or whatever you want to call it. The return on capital has been 5.1% for as long as anyone has looked. All the listed companies in the UK deliver about £85bn in dividends - about enough to eliminate the deficit and prevent the debt from increasing, but no more. A communist revolution which involved seizing all these listed companies would mean next to nothing: we'd still have to go to work for the same number of hours, we just wouldn't be adding to the debt. 

 

You say "in order to pay the new minimum wage throughout every sector, including the public sector, we would need to tax the corporations". You sem to be labouring under a pretty major misunderstanding as to how minimum wages in the private sector work. The employer has to pay that rate, or use machinery (employing nobody), or go abroad, or go out of business. 

 

At root you seem to have some idea that but for the surplus value extracted by the "corporations" we'd all be farting through silk, but - as I say - I'm quite close to jacking all of this in. My coat of arms will show a thousand cats with balls of wool, and me trying to untangle the product. 

 

I meant highly profitable corporations, corporate profits in the UK were almost exactly equal to our combined family benefit, income support and tax credit budgets last year, the problem quite clearly does not lie with those in receipt of benefits but with our government for taking us down this slippery slope toward the fascist hold of the corporates.  I have an old fishing net full of bits of broken plastic such as coffee stirrers, it might suit the times better.

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I do intend to stay in Thailand however to become a bona fide immigrant in Thailand is extremely difficult to achieve as the many threads on TVF will show you.

 

Living on a Non Imm O visa and extension is at the will and whim of whichever Thai government is in power at any time and on how they feel that day.

 

You mean permanent resident or perhaps citizen.  The non immigrant visa has little to do with the issue but could serve as a symbol of intention like labelling yourself an expat also could, unfortunately for most the term expat is actually just a manifestation of Western-centrism that is used in attempt to separate themselves from other immigrants.

[Craig krup]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I meant highly profitable corporations, corporate profits in the UK were almost exactly equal to our combined family benefit, income support and tax credit budgets last year, 

And if so, so what? It's ordinary folk who've scrimped and saved to own these corporations. These are the assets of the private pensions. I've been a frugal dougal for over two decades to own a slice of this, and take the dividends. We know that the 5.1% on offer - with huge volatility - isn't enough to induce most wasters to give up a holiday today, so how do you imagine the plant and machinery needed to have any jobs at all will come into existence? 

 

If I offered you - 

 

1) £100,000 right now, 

Or

2) £5,100 a year, not guaranteed, with no guarantee that you can get your £100,000 when you want it: it might be worth £50,000, or less, at any moment in time. 

 

Because you know what, unless a group of people take "2" nobody has a job. 

[sammieuk1]

5 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

And if so, so what? It's ordinary folk who've scrimped and saved to own these corporations. These are the assets of the private pensions. I've been a frugal dougal for over two decades to own a slice of this, and take the dividends. We know that the 5.1% on offer - with huge volatility - isn't enough to induce most wasters to give up a holiday today, so how do you imagine the plant and machinery needed to have any jobs at all will come into existence? 

 

If I offered you - 

 

1) £100,000 right now, 

Or

2) £5,100 a year, not guaranteed, with no guarantee that you can get your £100,000 when you want it: it might be worth £50,000, or less, at any moment in time. 

 

Because you know what, unless a group of people take "2" nobody has a job. 

You need to return to the UK and save it !  preferable now.

[cyberfarang]

2 hours ago, Craig krup said:

"

And you see that's why people voted Leave, and why they get really, really fed up with the Remain crowd. It's the contempt that I can't stand. The sheer blithe indifference. That utterly immovable smug assurance. 

 

The UK spends £231bn on all forms of welfare, including the pension. About half is on working age welfare, including staggering sums on working tax credit, child tax credit and housing benefit. Unemployment benefit costs peanuts. People who think that unemployment benefit is the issue don't understand anything about the system (see below). 

 

https://fullfact.org/economy/welfare-budget/

 

 

I don`t consider the UK State pension as being welfare or a benefit. I paid my National Insurance contributions for over 40 years, all my working life. I paid for my State pension, not claiming it as a benefit on welfare. My State pension is my entitlement.

 

People voted Brexit because they became sick and tired of Britain`s open door immigration policy. Brexit was a protest vote against the leftist establishment. Since the 1980s Brits have been leaving the country in their droves, what become known as the white flight. Then once moved abroad the British government penalised us for doing so. No longer entitled to receive the National Health Service, frozen State pensions, less interest on our UK bank accounts being non residents and all other UK benefits denied to us, whether we officially emigrated or not, but still eligible to pay UK tax on our savings or any other investments or incomes we receive from the UK, including our pensions. And for paying UK tax we receive absolutely nothing. This now leaves us at the tender mercies of the banking institutions who want their slice of our hard earned cash and again for the pleasure of banking with them are offering absolutely nothing. This has to be the worse stitch up of the century,

 

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, Craig krup said:

"

And you see that's why people voted Leave, and why they get really, really fed up with the Remain crowd. It's the contempt that I can't stand. The sheer blithe indifference. That utterly immovable smug assurance. 

 

The UK spends £231bn on all forms of welfare, including the pension. About half is on working age welfare, including staggering sums on working tax credit, child tax credit and housing benefit. Unemployment benefit costs peanuts. People who think that unemployment benefit is the issue don't understand anything about the system (see below). 

 

https://fullfact.org/economy/welfare-budget/

 

 

When I was living in England, we had a single mother in her early 20s living next door. This woman had 3 young children sired by 3 different men, 2 of the men were actually brothers. This made her eligible to claim full government support and welfare until all children reached 18 years of age. 2 of the kids fathers were unemployed and also on benefits and 1 was in prison, so unable to contribute towards the upkeep of their kids.

 

This woman received free local authority housing, free furniture, a huge cost of living allowance each week, free education for the kids, free healthcare for the whole family including dental work, and all utility bills pre-paid by the government. Then 2 years later she got pregnant again, so the local authority moved her into a larger accommodation to facilitate the extra child. So in-fact she`ll probably be claiming welfare until she`s in her 50s without the need to seek a job, work or pay any tax into the system. And that was the tip of the iceberg.

 

 

[Kieran00001]

19 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

And if so, so what? It's ordinary folk who've scrimped and saved to own these corporations. These are the assets of the private pensions. I've been a frugal dougal for over two decades to own a slice of this, and take the dividends. We know that the 5.1% on offer - with huge volatility - isn't enough to induce most wasters to give up a holiday today, so how do you imagine the plant and machinery needed to have any jobs at all will come into existence? 

 

If I offered you - 

 

1) £100,000 right now, 

Or

2) £5,100 a year, not guaranteed, with no guarantee that you can get your £100,000 when you want it: it might be worth £50,000, or less, at any moment in time. 

 

Because you know what, unless a group of people take "2" nobody has a job. 

 

Yeah, because the a,ready biggest share and an ever increasing amount of shares of the most profitable corps in the Uk are not actually owned by foreign holding companies that do not profit any one in the UK at all, right?

[Craig krup]

23 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

You need to return to the UK and save it !  preferable now.

I am in the UK. I'm a college teacher. I can only go to Thailand during the long holidays. I'm a perfect example of what I'm saying here. I've got a piece of paper with a list of dates - week ending 6/03, 13/03, 20/03 - all of which led up to my 50th birthday, when I could get the OA. But my employer has been handing out severances, so I'm hanging on to get that. I've got a load of private pension, I've got my teacher's pension (2025 with no actuarial reduction), I've got the state pension (2027).....I could have retired years ago, but I think of the worst that could reasonably happen, and then I go many standard deviations beyond that. That's the whole point. This thread is all about, "What can people do to cope with this unexpected event?", and my answer is, "Expect the unexpected. Be very, very afraid. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Protect yourself at all times". 

 

A quick check on my account shows that - including pension contributions - I spend about a sixth of what I earn, and (given that I'm reinvesting the dividends) about an eleventh of total income. Too cautious? I don't think so. Given what I've seen I'm not convinced that being too cautious is much of a problem. What's the worse that happens? I get hit by a truck and my last thoughts are, "I could have bought more shoes....and F*&k I could have smok....". 

[Craig krup]

17 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

When I was living in England, we had a single mother in her early 20s living next door. This woman had 3 young children sired by 3 different men, 2 of the men were actually brothers. This made her eligible to claim full government support and welfare until all children reached 18 years of age. 2 of the kids fathers were unemployed and also on benefits and 1 was in prison, so unable to contribute towards the upkeep of their kids.

 

This woman received free local authority housing, free furniture, a huge cost of living allowance each week, free education for the kids, free healthcare for the whole family including dental work, and all utility bills pre-paid by the government. Then 2 years later she got pregnant again, so the local authority moved her into a larger accommodation to facilitate the extra child. So in-fact she`ll probably be claiming welfare until she`s in her 50s without the need to seek a job, work or pay any tax into the system. And that was the tip of the iceberg.

 

 

 

Yeah, but that's cheap compared to what happens if her pal gives her 16 hours a week sweeping up hair - a.k.a. talking - in her shIt kiddy-on hairdressers. At that point the UK Debt Management Office has to issue a new gilt. 

[emilymat]

8 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

Oh man! God, even the thought of 75. I can feel myself stirring at the very contemplation of it. 75. Mmmmmmm. I'd definitely fill my boots at 75. 

It seems impossible to the ordinary Joe to predict currency fluctuations for years ahead.  When I came on regular golf holidays from the late 1980's it was 40 to the pound - but of course things were much cheaper here and I was on paid holiday.

 

Then I remember it being 90 to the pound at one point in the 1990's after the Asian crash, but of course had no idea that I would be retiring here, hence did not buy mega baht at that rate. 

 

 

I have enough in the Thai bank to last me a year and then I will review the situation. I don't bother now to look at the exchange rate as it would simply depress me!!

 

Mind you, it's not as though the UK residents are not feeling the pinch. Someone e mailed me and said they only got 95 cents to the pound against the Euro when they were going on holiday. I know airports are a rip-of for currency but even so!

[mommysboy]

If you are healthy and careful, then to live in Thailand you just need to wangle the retirement visa, and then you can live in a clean room with good basic food for 15000 baht per month.  Sure it would be a chore and there would be no woman, but still better than life back in Blighty.

 

It really depends on your state of health.  If not good, then for sure you should not stay here without enough emergency cover.

Edited August 28, 2017 by mommysboy

[SheungWan]

Take my expert advice and buy London property 25 years ago and you will not regret it.

[Fairynuff]

5 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Well youll be waiting for a very very long time tben. In fact youll be dead.

Come back in 2 years when the UK finaly leaves and see where the £ is then

The UK won't have left so the GBP will most likely have recovered and the brexiteers will still be whining about sovereignty and straight bananas 

[Fairynuff]

5 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

Maybe I know two welfare advisers and a number of other (similar) public sector workers, and maybe all these "progressive" people are united in their believe that what is going on is 1) mental, 2) unsustainable, and 3) unknown to the public. Ever think of that? Ever think that devout Muslim women wearing veils are already telling welfare rights advisers that they don't know who the father of their unborn child is, as their husband sits three feet behind them, playing with the other kids? But that's all just Daily Mail gibberish, isn't it? 

 

Check out Tracey's finances (below). Pull the pointer through to 43 minutes. Notice how she earns £500 a month and receives another three grand of other folks' money on top. You think that's sustainable? You think we can make that offer to half the world? 

 

 

 

 

Bigotry is a kind of personality disorder 

[mstevens]

9 hours ago, bobbin said:

Craig krup...

 

I'm not a Brit, but I have just started reading this thread, as I have some British friends who unfortunately are being affected by the current situation.

 

I just wanted to post to say that I am enjoying the way you write, and what you are writing is tickling my remaining brain cells.

 

I have a reasonable amount of assets here in Thailand. A nice condo, a car, motorcycle, the big screen 4K television, blah blah. I've been here 15 years. But at least half of my money is in cash, in my home country, earning nothing or next to it. It makes me feel comfortable though, as I always have access to cash. It's not that I don't know anything about investing, as I have researched. BTW, what I came away with from that research was...buy ETFs. Low fees, spread the risk. But...

 

It scares me. I'm afraid that I'll screw it up somehow and lose most of my cash money. It's not particularly rational, as I know about inflation eating cash holdings. Add in FX fluctuations...

 

How does a guy like me pull the trigger? Whack in 20% like you say, and watch what happens? Get used to the sensation, and add on downturns?

 

Don't worry, I won't come looking for you if my fears are realized! 

 

Sorry, I just realized this might be going off topic.

The critical point here is that you feel comfortable.  There is so much to be said for that.  Yes, sitting on cash deposits might not earn you the same returns as those who are prepared to take more risk, but if it makes you feel comfortable then who is to argue against that?  The few times I have put money in to the share market or bought traded funds I have done poorly.  And I have worried like crazy.  That sort of investing just didn't suit my personality.  Everything I have now is invested conservatively and I don't worry at all, and I sleep well.  I won't make the same returns as some people do, but that is not important to me.  Peace of mind is.

[jeab1980]

7 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

The UK won't have left so the GBP will most likely have recovered and the brexiteers will still be whining about sovereignty and straight bananas 

You are living in dream land good choice of name fairynuff. By 2019 UiK will once again be standing alone

Edited August 29, 2017 by jeab1980