Defiance after Abhisit reprieve

[webfact]

Defiance after Abhisit reprieve

By KESINEE TANGKHIEO, 
KASAMAKORN CHANWANPEN 
THE NATION

 

 

Red-shirt leaders consider options after case dismissed on technicality

BANGKOK: -- RED-SHIRT leaders remained determined yesterday to take legal action against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his ex-deputy Suthep Thaugsuban after the Supreme Court acquitted them in a case stemming from the 2010 fatal crackdown on protesters.

 

The top court dismissed the case on a technicality, upholding verdicts by lower courts, in the case in which Abhisit and Suthep were accused of murder and attempted murder.

 

The court ruled that the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) did not have jurisdiction to bring the case to court. Cases against political office holders such as Abhisit and Suthep must be filed by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) through the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders, the verdict said.

 

Abhisit is the Democrat Party leader and Suthep is its former secretary-general. Both of them were present at the court for the verdict reading yesterday.

 

Lawyer Chokchai Angkaew, who represents families of people killed in the unrest who were acting as co-plaintiffs in the case, yesterday said the plaintiffs would petition the NACC to bring a new case against Abhisit and Suthep.

 

“We will cite the Supreme Court ruling urging the NACC to act. We will not give up yet. There must be an investigation by the NACC to get the culprits,” he said after learning about the verdict.

 

Red-shirt supporters of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra took to the streets in Bangkok in early March 2010, weeks after the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders ordered the seizure of Bt46 billion in his assets determined to have been earned dishonestly while he was in power. The street protests against the Abhisit government continued for 10 weeks. More than 90 people were killed in the unrest and riots, including protesters, military personnel and police officers, foreign journalists and passers-by.

 

In 2014, the DSI brought the case against Abhisit and Suthep to the Criminal Court after public prosecutors indicted them for murder and attempted murder. 

 

In August that year, the court dismissed the case on the grounds that cases against political office holders must be dealt with by the NACC and tried by the special division of the High Court. The Appeals Court upheld the lower court’s verdict in February 2016.

 

In 2015, the NACC resolved not to pursue the case against Abhisit and Suthep on the grounds that they should not be held responsible for deaths and injuries caused by armed security forces who acted in a personal capacity. The NACC also argued that its investigation had found that armed people had mingled among red-shirt protesters, so the rally did not constitute a peaceful protest and the authorities’ use of force was therefore justified.

 

Abhisit yesterday said he felt grateful to the justice system and expressed regret for the loss of life during the incident while maintaining that he had done his utmost to prevent such a tragedy. 

 

The former prime minister said that after the incident, he supported independent fact-finding efforts and proper remedies for people affected. “Hopefully, Thai society will not have to experience a similar incident again,” he said.

 

Abhisit was also asked to comment on a petition filed last month by red-shirt leader and Pheu Thai Party politician Nattawut Saikua for the NACC to reconsider the case against him and Suthep. The Democrat leader said the issue would be decided by the NACC but he had not received any notification from the agency.

 

Suthep said yesterday neither he nor Abhisit had violated the law and that the operation to disperse protesters had been implemented in line with the law.

 

In response to the red-shirt supporters’ petition for the NACC to reconsider the case, Suthep said he was not surprised as “this group of people often focus on causing us trouble”. 

 

He said he had provided the NACC with evidence and facts to prove his innocence, adding that the information was included in his book titled “The Testimony of Phra Suthep”, which was written while he was an ordained Buddhist monk following the 2014 coup.

 

NACC president Watcharapol Prasarnrajkit yesterday said agency officials were looking into the case against Abhisit and Suthep to determine whether there was any new evidence that warranted reconsideration of the case.

 

Meanwhile, Winyat Chatmontree, a lawyer close to families of the victims, emphasised yesterday that the case against Abhisit and Suthep had been dismissed due to a legal technicality. The court had not ruled whether or not the two men were guilty, he added.

 

Winyat, who is also the secretary of the volunteer human rights lawyer group Free Thai Legal Aid, said there were at least two other channels through which the case could be appealed.

 

One channel was via the NACC, he said, adding that although the agency had dismissed the petition in 2015, there had not been an investigation. If the victims’ families had any doubts, they could submit evidence and ask the NACC to take action, the lawyer said.

 

Such a complaint could be made against all officers involved in the deadly operation, including the former prime minister and Suthep, he said. The massacre at Pathum Wanaram Temple, in which government officers have already been proven to have caused deaths, could be a particular issue, he said, citing a 2013 court ruling.

 

“[The families] could take legal action against those on-duty officers for malfeasance and then extend the results to find out who were the commanders, from bottom to top,” Winyat told The Nation.

 

Another means would be through the court of justice, the lawyer said. 

 

Red-shirt leader Weng Tojirakarn said he respected the court’s decision yesterday, adding that the NACC should explain itself why it had rejected the case.

 

Weng said the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) had lodged a petition with the NACC, asking for a review of the case, particularly because it had been proven that government officers were responsible for the deaths at Wat Pathum Wanaram. 

 

Besides the court ruling, the UDD may also present to the NACC the recent case against Somchai Wongsawat and other officials, who had been sued for using tear gas against demonstrators, Weng said. Security personnel using bullets against civilians should receive the same treatment and be brought to trial, he said.

 

Full story; http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30325450

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-09-01

 

[Samui Bodoh]

8 minutes ago, webfact said:

In 2015, the NACC resolved not to pursue the case against Abhisit and Suthep on the grounds that they should not be held responsible for deaths and injuries caused by armed security forces who acted in a personal capacity. The NACC also argued that its investigation had found that armed people had mingled among red-shirt protesters, so the rally did not constitute a peaceful protest and the authorities’ use of force was therefore justified.

 

So, Abhisit and Suthep aren't responsible as the military people acted in a "personal capacity".

 

But, the authorities use of force was "justified" because armed people mingled among red-shirt protesters.

 

Rarely have I seen such convoluted "reasoning".

 

The only conclusion that I can draw after the deaths of 90 or so people is that they were only 'red-shirts' and thus didn't matter. And since they didn't matter, no one should be held accountable.

 

Is there any wonder why many people in the north hate the folks in Bangkok?

 

 

[sjaak327]

23 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

So, Abhisit and Suthep aren't responsible as the military people acted in a "personal capacity".

 

But, the authorities use of force was "justified" because armed people mingled among red-shirt protesters.

 

Rarely have I seen such convoluted "reasoning".

 

The only conclusion that I can draw after the deaths of 90 or so people is that they were only 'red-shirts' and thus didn't matter. And since they didn't matter, no one should be held accountable.

 

Is there any wonder why many people in the north hate the folks in Bangkok?

 

 

Yet it did not stop the NACC from charging four people for a minor incident back in 2008 where police (not the army !) tried to stop a PAD demonstration. it is time the whole NACC is dragged to court for gross negligence and bias, they are not fooling anyone.

[Somtamnication]

Both sides equally as guilty. This problem has no solution. 

[meechai]

Wake up Thai people

Take your country back

Less of you will be hurt in freeing your country than at an average 4 days of Songkron

Once in motion other countries will help

 

There are so many more of you than the elites that grip your trough now

The majority of the Military soldiers are your kids not the elites that

bleed your country now. They will stand with you

 

[nikmar]

reconciliation going well then.

[phantomfiddler]

Don,t the redshirts understand that they were the ones who were the promoters of violence ?  Abhisit did no wrong, and, in the situation he was forced into, he was far to lenient in dealing with these paid thugs !

[maxpower]

46 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Don,t the redshirts understand that they were the ones who were the promoters of violence ?  Abhisit did no wrong, and, in the situation he was forced into, he was far to lenient in dealing with these paid thugs !

Yeah right, those .50 cal machine guns were way too lenient for the opening round. They must have been real pissed to discover only 20 kills.

Edited September 1, 2017 by maxpower
877

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

1 hour ago, maxpower said:

Yeah right, those .50 cal machine guns were way too lenient for the opening round. They must have been real pissed to discover only 20 kills.

Selective memory? The first people killed were people that were killed by the redshirst and those included peaceful protesters protesting against the reds and the military when they were attacked by the reds.

 

The reds came for violence, they initiated and they got it back although it took a very long time or them to get it.

 

I agree that Abhisit was far too lenient with them. No other country in the world would have tolerated this as long as he did.

 

They came to burn down Bkk which they eventually did, they bariccaded themselves in, with weapons, then dismantled all of the cctv cameras to cover their tracks.

 

They are thugs and baby murderers that finally got what they deserved.

[Krataiboy]

Surprise, surprise! What a shockingly unexpected verdict!

 

(With apologies to whomever declared sarcasm to be the lowest form of wit).

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

Selective memory? The first people killed were people that were killed by the redshirst and those included peaceful protesters protesting against the reds and the military when they were attacked by the reds.

 

The reds came for violence, they initiated and they got it back although it took a very long time or them to get it.

 

I agree that Abhisit was far too lenient with them. No other country in the world would have tolerated this as long as he did.

 

They came to burn down Bkk which they eventually did, they bariccaded themselves in, with weapons, then dismantled all of the cctv cameras to cover their tracks.

 

They are thugs and baby murderers that finally got what they deserved.

Burn down Bangkok my aris. Hotheads started a couple of insignificant fires.

Blackshirts may have started the killing, but I haven't seen anything to convince me that they were on the Reds side.

Nothing excuses the murder of ninety-odd civilians. Someone gave the order and it must have come from the top.

Edited September 1, 2017 by jesimps

[natway09]

Somebody had to stop the anarchy !! Come on guys they started burning & ransacking banks, shopping centres, substations etc. I personally had to drive over burning tyres in Rama 4 where the Bangkok Bank was warming up nicely with burning tyres being pulled up the steps.

In most countries if i had a gun I could have legally shot them as looting was going on

 

If the police had done their job from the start & not let tents be pitched in the middle of a 6 lane highway at Ratchaprasong  this could have been nipped in the bud before it escalated 

[JAG]

Somebody had to stop the anarchy !! Come on guys they started burning & ransacking banks, shopping centres, substations etc. I personally had to drive over burning tyres in Rama 4 where the Bangkok Bank was warming up nicely with burning tyres being pulled up the steps.
In most countries if i had a gun I could have legally shot them as looting was going on
 
If the police had done their job from the start & not let tents be pitched in the middle of a 6 lane highway at Ratchaprasong  this could have been nipped in the bud before it escalated 

So rather than going after the looters and arsonists they shot a load of unarmed people (including medics and wounded) sheltering in a temple.

It didn't stop the anarchy but it sent a very clear message, one which resonates to this day.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

Burn down Bangkok my aris. Hotheads started a couple of insignificant fires.

Blackshirts may have started the killing, but I haven't seen anything to convince me that they were on the Reds side.

Nothing excuses the murder of ninety-odd civilians. Someone gave the order and it must have come from the top.

are you talking about the  civilians that Taksin killed down south my hancuffing them and stacking them into sweaty trucks to suffocate? Or the several thousand he killed in his war on drugs?

 

How about your reds cheering and celebrating at a rally the next day after 2 young children got blown up by RPG's?

 

Insignificant fires?? Whatever you are smoking, I don't want any.

[millwall_fan]

I don't know why anyone bothers to resort to the hopelessly flawed and biased legal system. Did the Red Shirt lawyers seriously think that the courts were going to convict Stormtrooper Suthep who did the elite's dirty work and paved the way for the coup, or his Geordie sidekick Abhisit?

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

are you talking about the  civilians that Taksin killed down south my hancuffing them and stacking them into sweaty trucks to suffocate? Or the several thousand he killed in his war on drugs?

 

How about your reds cheering and celebrating at a rally the next day after 2 young children got blown up by RPG's?

 

Insignificant fires?? Whatever you are smoking, I don't want any.

Do you all junta supporters have the same handbook. This keep popping up when you have nothing much to say and when the facts being checked and refuted. And you forget to include vote buying and populist policies. How can you.

[sandemara]

7 hours ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

I agree that Abhisit was far too lenient with them. No other country in the world would have tolerated this as long as he did.

 

They came to burn down Bkk which they eventually did, they bariccaded themselves in, with weapons, then dismantled all of the cctv cameras to cover their tracks.

 

They are thugs and baby murderers that finally got what they deserved.

This reconciliation project is working a treat!

[kingkenny]

I said at the time and I will say it again, if Abhisit didn't give the order he knows who did so it's about time he comes clean. If no order was given then the army were out of control.

 

If only there was a precedent for taking an ex PM to court for negligence............. oh wait

[seajae]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Do you all junta supporters have the same handbook. This keep popping up when you have nothing much to say and when the facts being checked and refuted. And you forget to include vote buying and populist policies. How can you.

it did happen, the ptp/reds were cheering and clapping as it was announced on the stage at their gathering , seems you are the one trying to make things up, show us where it was fact checked and refuted then, you cant because it wasnt, I support a Thailand without violence, the reds were the instigators on thaksins orders, you on the other hand like all your friends want the deaths to start up again with your red mates killing at random then making excuses for them as you are now

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by seajae

[maxpower]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Do you all junta supporters have the same handbook. 

Yes.

 

[shanesox]

 
So, Abhisit and Suthep aren't responsible as the military people acted in a "personal capacity".
 
But, the authorities use of force was "justified" because armed people mingled among red-shirt protesters.
 
Rarely have I seen such convoluted "reasoning".
 
The only conclusion that I can draw after the deaths of 90 or so people is that they were only 'red-shirts' and thus didn't matter. And since they didn't matter, no one should be held accountable.
 
Is there any wonder why many people in the north hate the folks in Bangkok?
 
 

Simplistic junk! "Armed people mingled with red shirts" ! naive folk from north, but poor folk in Bangkok were not so naive!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[YetAnother]

12 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

So, Abhisit and Suthep aren't responsible as the military people acted in a "personal capacity".

 

But, the authorities use of force was "justified" because armed people mingled among red-shirt protesters.

 

Rarely have I seen such convoluted "reasoning".

 

The only conclusion that I can draw after the deaths of 90 or so people is that they were only 'red-shirts' and thus didn't matter. And since they didn't matter, no one should be held accountable.

 

Is there any wonder why many people in the north hate the folks in Bangkok?

 

 

disturbingly correct; court leadership is now as bad as the military leadership (not that the second Strongly doesnt strongly influence the first; and thus the first becomes political);

landscape seems to be:

'are you yellow shirt  ?'

'yes'

'innocent/case dropped, next....'

[next] 'are you redshirt ?"

'yes'

'well then...........'

[AGareth2]

27 minutes ago, kingkenny said:

If no order was given then the army were out of control.

sorry

In Thailand the army is always in control

[pornprong]

11 hours ago, meechai said:

Wake up Thai people

Take your country back

Less of you will be hurt in freeing your country than at an average 4 days of Songkron

Once in motion other countries will help

 

There are so many more of you than the elites that grip your trough now

The majority of the Military soldiers are your kids not the elites that

bleed your country now. They will stand with you

 

It will come.

1976.....1992.....????

3rd time lucky.

[pornprong]

2 hours ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

are you talking about the  civilians that Taksin killed down south my hancuffing them and stacking them into sweaty trucks to suffocate? Or the several thousand he killed in his war on drugs?

 

How about your reds cheering and celebrating at a rally the next day after 2 young children got blown up by RPG's?

 

Insignificant fires?? Whatever you are smoking, I don't want any.

Thaksin wasn't there, he never personally stacked anyone in a any truck.....the Thai military on the other hand.

War on drugs.....Thaksin was just acting on orders.

 

It's probably just a matter of time until you start blaming Thaksin for the 2010 massacre.

 

Off with the pixies?

I think so.

[pornprong]

45 minutes ago, seajae said:

it did happen, the ptp/reds were cheering and clapping as it was announced on the stage at their gathering , seems you are the one trying to make things up, show us where it was fact checked and refuted then, you cant because it wasnt, I support a Thailand without violence, the reds were the instigators on thaksins orders, you on the other hand like all your friends want the deaths to start up again with your red mates killing at random then making excuses for them as you are now

 

It appears you support a Thailand without democracy or freedom.

Isn't it funny how there was plenty of death and violence in Thailand in 1976 and 1992.... yet there were not yet any red shirts?

Perhaps a rethink of your beliefs is in order?

[khounteen]

And the snake show continues....

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

The 'war on drugs' had implicit approval from above and was universally popular among Thais at the time. That is not to say I agreed with it but it definitely had an impact and reduced drug usage in the country. 

 

 

The number of death was also much disputed. The 2,500 which the junta supporters like to reference was from the HRW. When asked how they derived that number, HRW said it was from AP. Subsequently AP was similarly asked

and they said it was from HRW. That number was finally narrowed down to about 70 by the RTP and they could not tell whether they were all drug related. I am tired of those junta supporters keep harping on this non truth. 

[thaiguzzi]

Photo in the OP. Resevoir Dogs?

[Eric Loh]

5 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Photo in the OP. Resevoir Dogs?

More like The Untouchable.