10,000 Anti-coup Demonstrators Expected At Sanam Luang Rally

[hammered]

Metropol Police to sue protestors responsible for chaotic incident in Sanam Luang last night

Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, Pol.Lt.Gen.Adisorn Nonsee (อดิศร นนทรีย์), says the police will sue protestors who created a chaotic incident at Saman Luang last night (June, 18th).

According to the commissioner, the demonstrators who were in the back part of a truck tried to stir up the situation by verbally attacking the government and the Council for National Security (CNS). He says the police are now inspecting photographs of the incident in order to take legal actions against the demonstrators.

Pol.Lt.Adisorn also calls on the protestors not to move from Sanam Luang to other government places and bans them from verbally attacking the government and CNS via loudspeakers during their rally today. He says further that the police strictly prohibit illegal actions, including road blocking and ruining of public assets. Those who intend to stir up the situation or create violence will be taken out of Sanam Laung immediately.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 June 2007

So what actually happened? The demonstrators have been attacking the government and CNS for some time now and of course have the right to do so unless they instigate violence or break some bunch of laws. What was different last night?

Edited June 19, 2007 by hammered

[Jai Dee]

Rally leaders insist to move to Army Headquarters this weekend

The rally leaders at Sanam Luang reiterate that the demonstration will move to the Royal Thai Army Headquarters at Ratchadamnoen Nok Rd. on Saturday, June 23rd. They say they will also change their demonstration strategy so that their information and presentation could reach more people.

The rally leaders say the movement will start at 12:00 hours this Saturday and it will be conducted peacefully. They say if the Council for National Security (CNS) has not responded to their demands on June 24th, then the demonstration will prolong.

In addition, the demonstrators will distribute and present confidential documents and CDs to the gatherers.

Police and municipal officials meanwhile are still in control of the demonstration at Sanam Luang, to prevent violence from happening.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 June 2007

[younghusband]

Thaksin never dissolved parlaiment? or Thaksin never sued and sued and sued his opponents ... if only he had had access to a few concentration camps!

again ... as analogy it stands far better than most pushed by Der Fuhrer's buddies in here!`

My headache rises...

Thaksin's dissolution was entirely within the law, and he has called new elections straight away, and the dissolution was signed by the King.

Hitler dissolved parliament never to open it again, never to allow elections again, as elections were part of a by him despised political system.

Thaksin has never dissolved any opposition party, Hitler has dissolved every other party as soon as he came to power.

The first people that were sent to concentration camps by Hitler were socialists, social democrats, and communists.

For sheer ignorance and stupidity the suggestion Thaksin was akin to Hitler takes some beating.Even the Bangkok Post in its editorial today felt it necessary to stamp on this viscious and historically illiterate nonsense.My earlier concern on the declining standards of political debate on this forum remains.

[John K]

Hmmmm if not Hitler then whom might you suggest as a counter point?

However I agree to a point on the decline, however this has become less political and more criminal in recent months with good reason. Even that x is clearly visible, proof that it is actually x is required by Thai law to convict. However we have no such requirement so carry on! .

[Siripon]

Thaksin never dissolved parlaiment? or Thaksin never sued and sued and sued his opponents ... if only he had had access to a few concentration camps!

again ... as analogy it stands far better than most pushed by Der Fuhrer's buddies in here!`

My headache rises...

Thaksin's dissolution was entirely within the law, and he has called new elections straight away, and the dissolution was signed by the King.

Hitler dissolved parliament never to open it again, never to allow elections again, as elections were part of a by him despised political system.

Thaksin has never dissolved any opposition party, Hitler has dissolved every other party as soon as he came to power.

The first people that were sent to concentration camps by Hitler were socialists, social democrats, and communists.

For sheer ignorance and stupidity the suggestion Thaksin was akin to Hitler takes some beating.Even the Bangkok Post in its editorial today felt it necessary to stamp on this viscious and historically illiterate nonsense.My earlier concern on the declining standards of political debate on this forum remains.

It's a senseless comparison, and as you say it's utterly' viscious', which is naturally a historical and literary nonsense in the English language.

I despair at the declining standards of spelling in the current debates, it's a sign of sloppy standards, as shown recently by our former great leader in his futile attempts to hide his vested interests.

[Grover]

For sheer ignorance and stupidity the suggestion Thaksin was akin to Hitler takes some beating.Even the Bangkok Post in its editorial today felt it necessary to stamp on this viscious and historically illiterate nonsense.My earlier concern on the declining standards of political debate on this forum remains.

LOL. Space after the full-stop, younghusband.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Grover

[lukamar]

and bans them from verbally attacking the government and CNS via loudspeakers during their rally today. He says further that the police strictly prohibit illegal actions, including road blocking and ruining of public assets. Those who intend to stir up the situation or create violence will be taken out of Sanam Laung immediately.

So what actually happened? The demonstrators have been attacking the government and CNS for some time now and of course have the right to do so unless they instigate violence or break some bunch of laws. What was different last night?

In a dictatorship you only have the rights the Dictator allows you to have and often the Dictator changes his mind. It appears that you are not allowed to speak against the Junta or government with loudspeakers as of today. Just more fear tactics aimed against the demonstrators, same as blocking and turning back people coming into Bangkok to protest.

[jdinasia]

and bans them from verbally attacking the government and CNS via loudspeakers during their rally today. He says further that the police strictly prohibit illegal actions, including road blocking and ruining of public assets. Those who intend to stir up the situation or create violence will be taken out of Sanam Laung immediately.

So what actually happened? The demonstrators have been attacking the government and CNS for some time now and of course have the right to do so unless they instigate violence or break some bunch of laws. What was different last night?

In a dictatorship you only have the rights the Dictator allows you to have and often the Dictator changes his mind. It appears that you are not allowed to speak against the Junta or government with loudspeakers as of today. Just more fear tactics aimed against the demonstrators, same as blocking and turning back people coming into Bangkok to protest.

hmmm sounds like this .........

But this was Thaksin ... not the Junta

Embargoed for: 20 July 2005

1. INTRODUCTION

2. ANALYSIS OF THE EMERGENCY DECREE

a. Subversion of parliamentary democracy

b. Supremacy of the military

c. Restriction on freedom of movement and the lack of guarantees against forced relocations of civilians

d. Restriction on the freedom of assembly and expression

e. Legalising arbitrary arrest and detention

f. Attachment and destruction of property etc

g. No right to privacy

h. Denial of the freedom to leave the country

i. Legalising man-made humanitarian crisis through economic embargo

j. Legalising incommunicado detention

k. Prime Minister is above the Constitutional Court!

l. Legalising Impunity

except .. you will note .. that most of the above has NOT happened under the Junta

Edited June 20, 2007 by jdinasia

[ThaiGoon]

In a dictatorship you only have the rights the Dictator allows you to have and often the Dictator changes his mind. It appears that you are not allowed to speak against the Junta or government with loudspeakers as of today. Just more fear tactics aimed against the demonstrators, same as blocking and turning back people coming into Bangkok to protest.

People actually do have more rights to protest and speak out against the gov't than they (we) did under Thaksin. He blocked Demo's attempts to stage a political rally in Chiang Mai and did many things to sabotage Khun Suriyasai's group. The current gov't is actually very lenient to protestors compared to Thaksin. Some Thais and media were even calling the current gov't "Nhom Nham" to protestors.

[sriracha john]

and bans them from verbally attacking the government and CNS via loudspeakers during their rally today. He says further that the police strictly prohibit illegal actions, including road blocking and ruining of public assets. Those who intend to stir up the situation or create violence will be taken out of Sanam Laung immediately.

So what actually happened? The demonstrators have been attacking the government and CNS for some time now and of course have the right to do so unless they instigate violence or break some bunch of laws. What was different last night?

In a dictatorship you only have the rights the Dictator allows you to have and often the Dictator changes his mind. It appears that you are not allowed to speak against the Junta or government with loudspeakers as of today. Just more fear tactics aimed against the demonstrators, same as blocking and turning back people coming into Bangkok to protest.

So in response to the question posed in the post you quoted... do you know what was different?

Edited June 20, 2007 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

except .. you will note .. that most of the above has NOT happened under the Junta

Ya right, 1/2 the country is still under martial law, didn't happen under Thaksin and read up on the ISOC changes your Junta buddies have made recently if you want to learn about the rights every Thai has lost.

In a dictatorship, which Thailand is at the moment, the Dictator is above all including the Constitutional Tribunal as we all found out ...LOL and they gave them selves IMUNITY. there does not appear to be much on your list that they both did not do...

a. Subversion of parliamentary democracy - Democracy scrapped under Junta

b. Supremacy of the military - cemented under Junta with doubled budget

c. Restriction on freedom of movement and the lack of guarantees against forced relocations of civilians See ISOC

d. Restriction on the freedom of assembly and expression See ISOC

e. Legalising arbitrary arrest and detention See ISOC

g. No right to privacy See ISOC

j. Legalising incommunicado detention See ISOC

k. Prime Minister is above the Constitutional Court! Taken over under Junta

l. Legalising Impunity Legalized IMUNITY for themselves

[lukamar]

People actually do have more rights to protest and speak out against the gov't than they (we) did under Thaksin. He blocked Demo's attempts to stage a political rally in Chiang Mai and did many things to sabotage Khun Suriyasai's group. The current gov't is actually very lenient to protestors compared to Thaksin. Some Thais and media were even calling the current gov't "Nhom Nham" to protestors.

You must be in an area that is NOT under Martial law. Just yesterday the Military blocked people from signing a birthday wishes for HM - in Chiang Mai.

Lt.Gen.Jiradet adds that protestors against the government and the Council for National Security (CNS) in some areas have encouraged people to bring their identification card to sign a book to celebrate His Majesty the King’s 80th birthday anniversary. He says such action is deemed illegal.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 June 2007

[ThaiGoon]

People actually do have more rights to protest and speak out against the gov't than they (we) did under Thaksin. He blocked Demo's attempts to stage a political rally in Chiang Mai and did many things to sabotage Khun Suriyasai's group. The current gov't is actually very lenient to protestors compared to Thaksin. Some Thais and media were even calling the current gov't "Nhom Nham" to protestors.

You must be in an area that is NOT under Martial law. Just yesterday the Military blocked people from signing a birthday wishes for HM - in Chiang Mai.

Lt.Gen.Jiradet adds that protestors against the government and the Council for National Security (CNS) in some areas have encouraged people to bring their identification card to sign a book to celebrate His Majesty the King’s 80th birthday anniversary. He says such action is deemed illegal.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 June 2007

Not enough detail in the story. I don't think what you quoted clearly said what's deemed illegal.

And if you think Thaksin was not a dictator in disguise, you are clearly very delusional and really clueless.

[ThaiGoon]

The current gov't and the junta are certainly not dictators. If you wanna know what's living under real dictatorship is like, try moving to Burma and North Korea.

[jdinasia]

except .. you will note .. that most of the above has NOT happened under the Junta

Ya right, 1/2 the country is still under martial law, didn't happen under Thaksin and read up on the ISOC changes your Junta buddies have made recently if you want to learn about the rights every Thai has lost.

In a dictatorship, which Thailand is at the moment, the Dictator is above all including the Constitutional Tribunal as we all found out ...LOL and they gave them selves IMUNITY. there does not appear to be much on your list that they both did not do...

a. Subversion of parliamentary democracy - Democracy scrapped under Junta

b. Supremacy of the military - cemented under Junta with doubled budget

c. Restriction on freedom of movement and the lack of guarantees against forced relocations of civilians See ISOC

d. Restriction on the freedom of assembly and expression See ISOC

e. Legalising arbitrary arrest and detention See ISOC

g. No right to privacy See ISOC

j. Legalising incommunicado detention See ISOC

k. Prime Minister is above the Constitutional Court! Taken over under Junta

l. Legalising Impunity Legalized IMUNITY for themselves

LOL

Keep dreaming those dreams in Canada

They have ASKED for ISOC to have those powers .... (the ones granted to Thaksin under his decree ....) but that has not been formalized ... YET

as far as "Junta Buddies" goes ... I do not personally know any of them so they are not my buddies I am hoping that they do hold elections this year ... if so my belief that Sondi is a good guy that did what HAD to be done in a crappy situation brought on by a real dictator (Thaksin) will be vindicated .. if they (elections) do NOT happen then I will be doing some real re-thinking of my beliefs about him.

[ThaiGoon]

Yeah, I believe that the military did what they did for the best interest of the country as well. They didn't stage the coup for themselves. That I'm sure of. And right now, the best interest of the country is to have the election as soon as possible and they seem to try to do everything they can to achieve that. I hope the referendum will go smoothly and we will get the new constitution.

[lukamar]

People actually do have more rights to protest and speak out against the gov't than they (we) did under Thaksin. He blocked Demo's attempts to stage a political rally in Chiang Mai and did many things to sabotage Khun Suriyasai's group. The current gov't is actually very lenient to protestors compared to Thaksin. Some Thais and media were even calling the current gov't "Nhom Nham" to protestors.

You must be in an area that is NOT under Martial law. Just yesterday the Military blocked people from signing a birthday wishes for HM - in Chiang Mai.

Lt.Gen.Jiradet adds that protestors against the government and the Council for National Security (CNS) in some areas have encouraged people to bring their identification card to sign a book to celebrate His Majesty the King’s 80th birthday anniversary. He says such action is deemed illegal.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 June 2007

Not enough detail in the story. I don't think what you quoted clearly said what's deemed illegal.

3rd Army Commander warns Northern residents against political propagandas

The Third Army Area Commander warns residents in the North against misleading propagandas.

Third Army Area Commander Lt.Gen.Jiradet Khotcharat (จิรเดช คชรัตน์) says he is not concerned on the overall political situation in the Northern region, especially in Chiang Rai and Phayao provinces. He affirms that any chaotic incident will obstruct the general election scheduled to take place at the end of this year.

Lt.Gen.Jiradet adds that protestors against the government and the Council for National Security (CNS) in some areas have encouraged people to bring their identification card to sign a book to celebrate His Majesty the King’s 80th birthday anniversary. He says such action is deemed illegal. Lt.Gen.Jiradet said acts of signing in the name of HM the King can only be organized by government units.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 June 2007

Originally posted by Jai Dee, not me

And if you think Thaksin was not a dictator in disguise, you are clearly very delusional and really clueless.

I never said anything about Thaksin not being a dictator or being a dictator for that matter but I would like you to think about this quote by a respected poster to this thread...

The current gov't and the junta are certainly not dictators. If you wanna know what's living under real dictatorship is like, try moving to Burma and North Korea.

And neither was Thaksin according to your own criteria.

[lukamar]

Yeah, I believe that the military did what they did for the best interest of the country as well. They didn't stage the coup for

I guess doubling the military budget was just a perk of the new Democracy. They did it for themselves, never think otherwise, Thaksin and his government cut their budget and they were PO'd. Don't fall for all the smoke and mirrors, they have given themselves Billions in the last year, new boats, new helicopters and a doubled budget. That's self interest not even seen under the TRT.

[ThaiGoon]

And neither was Thaksin according to your own criteria.

Under that criteria, he might not be. But he's a lot worse than the current gov't with the way he tampered with free organizations who were supposedly to oversee illegal activities by his government, the way he threatened and sabotage free media, the way he interfered and undermined NGO's like that of Khun Suriyasai, his extra judicial killings of not only small fish drug dealers but also some lawyers, his rampant corruption and cronyism.... The list goes on and on.

Yeah he might not be exactly the same kind of dictator we see in Burma and North Korea. But he was a lot worse than the junta and the current gov't. If anyone wanna accuse the current regime of dictatorship, he should take a look at Thaksin's gov't first.

[jdinasia]

Yeah, I believe that the military did what they did for the best interest of the country as well. They didn't stage the coup for

I guess doubling the military budget was just a perk of the new Democracy. They did it for themselves, never think otherwise, Thaksin and his government cut their budget and they were PO'd. Don't fall for all the smoke and mirrors, they have given themselves Billions in the last year, new boats, new helicopters and a doubled budget. That's self interest not even seen under the TRT.

LOL ... So they undid Thaksin's mistake .....

You can't say that they gave it to themselves .. Thaksin did that (and to his wife .. his kids ... his driver ... his maid .. etc)! They gave it to the country! (Sadly the country may need it too!) The head honcho of the CNS is OUT of the military soon (October I think). So even the thought he gave it to "himself" is outrageous. Plus, when you have a new government ... hopefully in the next year ... that budget can simply go away! (Much like Thaksin's billions are likely to go away soon!)

Selfintrest not even seen under TRT? LOL ... that has to be the funniest thing I have seen today! They did NOT give THEMSELVES 2 BILLION USD raises ... they gave the country an improved military.

Edited June 20, 2007 by jdinasia

[ThaiGoon]

Yeah, I believe that the military did what they did for the best interest of the country as well. They didn't stage the coup for

I guess doubling the military budget was just a perk of the new Democracy. They did it for themselves, never think otherwise, Thaksin and his government cut their budget and they were PO'd. Don't fall for all the smoke and mirrors, they have given themselves Billions in the last year, new boats, new helicopters and a doubled budget. That's self interest not even seen under the TRT.

The military budget under Thaksin was way below the average of what other SEA countries were spending on their military. I don't even think that with the increase in their budget under this gov't, it gets to be on par that those of our neighbours. A lot of their equipments got really really old and really out of date. The level of maintenance deteriorated worryingly under Thaksin. Did you not read or hear any news about the military choppers that kept crashing? This gov't is just trying to upgrade the military a bit, and it's obviously a need.

You should really know more what's going on than just looking at the increasing numbers. Seriously.

[ThaiGoon]

Yeah, I believe that the military did what they did for the best interest of the country as well. They didn't stage the coup for

I guess doubling the military budget was just a perk of the new Democracy. They did it for themselves, never think otherwise, Thaksin and his government cut their budget and they were PO'd. Don't fall for all the smoke and mirrors, they have given themselves Billions in the last year, new boats, new helicopters and a doubled budget. That's self interest not even seen under the TRT.

LOL ... So they undid Thaksin's mistake .....

You can't say that they gave it to themselves .. Thaksin did that (and to his wife .. his kids ... his driver ... his maid .. etc)! They gave it to the country! (Sadly the country may need it too!)

Selfintrest not even seen under TRT? LOL ... that has to be the funniest thing I have seen today! They did NOT give THEMSELVES 2 BILLION USD raises ... they gave the country an improved military.

A very good point krab.

[sriracha john]

and bans them from verbally attacking the government and CNS via loudspeakers during their rally today. He says further that the police strictly prohibit illegal actions, including road blocking and ruining of public assets. Those who intend to stir up the situation or create violence will be taken out of Sanam Laung immediately.

So what actually happened? The demonstrators have been attacking the government and CNS for some time now and of course have the right to do so unless they instigate violence or break some bunch of laws. What was different last night?

In a dictatorship you only have the rights the Dictator allows you to have and often the Dictator changes his mind. It appears that you are not allowed to speak against the Junta or government with loudspeakers as of today. Just more fear tactics aimed against the demonstrators, same as blocking and turning back people coming into Bangkok to protest.

So in response to the question posed in the post you quoted... do you know what was different?

I guess he doesn't know what was different, which is surprising given his vast number of "sources."

Edited June 20, 2007 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

Isoc gets its mojo back

By Anucha Charoenpo

The Internal Security Operations Command is likely to regain some of its old influence of the Cold War days after the military-appointed government approved a national security bill giving the agency sweeping powers to handle all forms of terrorist threats.

State agencies had pushed for a similar bill to replace the repealed act but subsequent governments were wary, believing the communist threat had ended.

The idea of restoring Isoc's powers was revived after the Council for Democratic Reform, now known as the Council for National Security (CNS), toppled the government of Thaksin Shinawatra on Sept 19 last year, and replaced him with Gen Surayud Chulanont.

Once the new security bill becomes law, the prime minister will become chairman of the National Committee on Internal Security, monitoring Isoc's work. But that is not enough to quell fears that Isoc will be given excessive powers which could deprive people of their rights.

Isoc was created in 1966 with the assistance of the US government to handle anti-communist operations in the country. It enforced the Anti-Communism Act, which was repealed by the first administration of prime minister Chuan Leekpai a decade ago.

Critics ask how Isoc's activities will benefit the public under a military-backed government. They want to know whether members of the public can sit on the national committee and whether the bill will increase the powers of the army chief, who will also head the restructured agency.

Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin, the CNS chairman, is also the army chief.

Under the bill, Isoc's chief, as a member of the national committee, would have the right to direct state-run security agencies if the country comes under threat from terrorism, an act of sabotage or other forms of violence.

In addition, he would be empowered to ban people from leaving their homes, from using vehicles and roads, and from assembling in public places. He could also appoint security agents and assign them to bring suspects into custody, conduct searches and seize assets and documents believed to be linked to offences against national security.

However, they must seek court approval prior to arresting and detaining suspects. The bill allows them to detain suspects for seven days at a time, but the total detention period must not exceed 30 days.

The bill requires the Isoc chief to report to the national security committee, but it does not specifically say for which functions he needs the chairman's approval. That might create ambiguity and confusion among the public.

The bill should be reviewed to clarify the various functions of the prime minister and the Isoc chief.

National Security Council secretary-general Prakij Prachonpachanuk has assured that their powers will be limited, but public confusion remains.

BKKPost

While the clique here gangs up on those that don't agree with it, it's good to know that there are powers that have colluded to gang up on the whole country them included. While baning people from leaving their homes, from using vehicles and roads, and from assembling in public places may not seem to affect you or your rights, it easily could.

[sriracha john]

Have rules for quoting Bangkok Post articles changed?

[jumnien]

Have rules for quoting Bangkok Post articles changed?

Sri-j's right. You are only supposed to quote BKK Post articles in defense of the junta and anti-democracy! Doesn't anyone read the rules anymore?

[Grover]

Have rules for quoting Bangkok Post articles changed?

Sri-j's right. You are only supposed to quote BKK Post articles in defense of the junta and anti-democracy! Doesn't anyone read the rules anymore?

no, he meant that you can only quote the first two or three sentences and provide a link to the rest from a BKKPost article.

[hammered]

Interesting to watch the development of another who was worse the Junta or Thaksin row develop.

This excellent opinion piece may put some perspective on it all:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/21...on_30037409.php

I will leave it for those who wish to read to click the link as I wouldnt want to interfere in all the fun everyone is having in trying to argue the rather tedious Thaksin or Junta who is worse again, and of course nobody will change their mind.

[Jai Dee]

Have rules for quoting Bangkok Post articles changed?

Sri-j's right. You are only supposed to quote BKK Post articles in defense of the junta and anti-democracy! Doesn't anyone read the rules anymore?

no, he meant that you can only quote the first two or three sentences and provide a link to the rest from a BKKPost article.

Correct. The BKK Post feels that we are in violation of copyright if more is quoted.

The Nation and other Thai news sources do not have this problem.

[Jai Dee]

Political activist calls for legal actions against CNS

Veteran political activist, Pilot Officer Chalart Worachat (ฉลาด วรฉัตร), files a complaint with Caretaker Police Chief Pol.Gen.Seripisut Temiyavet against the Council for National Security (CNS) on grounds of undermining democracy.

Other government units Pilot Officer Chalart wants the police to sue include the Constitution Tribunal, the Election Commission, the National Legislative Assembly, the National Counter Corruption Commission, the Constitution Drafting Assembly, the Constitution Drafting Committee, and the Auditor-General.

Pilot Office Chalart says those government units which were appointed by the coup makers have disregarded the 1997 Constitution, violated various laws, and sought amnesty for themselves.

Pilot Office Chalart adds that he will begin a protest tonight by confining himself in a cell in front of the Parliament House and will stop once the country gains democracy back or he dies.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 June 2007