Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[sriracha john]

well, he's certainly is off to a roaring start....

SAMAK LOSES HIS COOL AGAIN

Refuses to answer most questions

A press conference held yesterday to announce the formation of a six-party coalition did not go as smoothly as planned for PPP leader Samak Sundaravej. A storm of questions from journalists ruffled the 72-year-old's feathers who could not hide his displeasure. Like his previous confrontations with the media, Samak did well again by dominating the stage and offering no substantial answers. Most members of the press wanted to know whether the five political parties would throw their support for sure behind his bid to become prime minister. Quickly responding to the question in his usual style, he suddenly turned the mood of newshounds hostile. "How can you ask this kind of question? I don't want to answer it," he bawled. The situation worsened when AP journalist Sutin Wannabovorn, who was caught in a similar situation once before with Samak firing away, insisted on an answer. "If you don't expect us to ask who will become PM, what else should this event be all about?'' said Sutin. Samak shouted back the answer would be given in parliament. The war of words continued between them, upsetting a group of PPP members in the room who booed and jeered at the newsman. When facing more questions, Samak chose not to answer and cut it short by saying: "I'm not a fortune teller." When the Bangkok Post questioned the representatives of the PPP's allies, asking them what criteria they would use to choose a PM, and what kind of leadership and judgment they expect from the new premier, Samak bluntly shot back: "That question is too long and it wouldn't be answered," he said before closing the press conference.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/20Jan2008_news10.php

[sriracha john]

They have nothing to lose except their credibility (which is already badly damaged) and everything to gain

Hey, I have Thai family in Issarn and Bangkok. Mostly unskilled workers , but some middle ranking in the military. NONE of them supported the coup.

If the generals ran for election they would finish sixteenth out of a field of ten! I am not too woried about the natives.

and as typical in Thailand.. Your mileage may vary...

and representative of the current division in this country, my Thai family ALL supported the coup... and none of them voted for return the old TRT in the election. They and I are quite concerned about the "natives" in the current situation.

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

well, he's certainly is off to a roaring start....

SAMAK LOSES HIS COOL AGAIN

Refuses to answer most questions

A press conference held yesterday to announce the formation of a six-party coalition did not go as smoothly as planned for PPP leader Samak Sundaravej. A storm of questions from journalists ruffled the 72-year-old's feathers who could not hide his displeasure. Like his previous confrontations with the media, Samak did well again by dominating the stage and offering no substantial answers. Most members of the press wanted to know whether the five political parties would throw their support for sure behind his bid to become prime minister. Quickly responding to the question in his usual style, he suddenly turned the mood of newshounds hostile. "How can you ask this kind of question? I don't want to answer it," he bawled. The situation worsened when AP journalist Sutin Wannabovorn, who was caught in a similar situation once before with Samak firing away, insisted on an answer. "If you don't expect us to ask who will become PM, what else should this event be all about?'' said Sutin. Samak shouted back the answer would be given in parliament. The war of words continued between them, upsetting a group of PPP members in the room who booed and jeered at the newsman. When facing more questions, Samak chose not to answer and cut it short by saying: "I'm not a fortune teller." When the Bangkok Post questioned the representatives of the PPP's allies, asking them what criteria they would use to choose a PM, and what kind of leadership and judgment they expect from the new premier, Samak bluntly shot back: "That question is too long and it wouldn't be answered," he said before closing the press conference.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/20Jan2008_news10.php

Same same!

Loop the loop!

[John K]

well, he's certainly is off to a roaring start....

SAMAK LOSES HIS COOL AGAIN

Refuses to answer most questions

A press conference held yesterday to announce the formation of a six-party coalition did not go as smoothly as planned for PPP leader Samak Sundaravej. A storm of questions from journalists ruffled the 72-year-old's feathers who could not hide his displeasure. Like his previous confrontations with the media, Samak did well again by dominating the stage and offering no substantial answers. Most members of the press wanted to know whether the five political parties would throw their support for sure behind his bid to become prime minister. Quickly responding to the question in his usual style, he suddenly turned the mood of newshounds hostile. "How can you ask this kind of question? I don't want to answer it," he bawled. The situation worsened when AP journalist Sutin Wannabovorn, who was caught in a similar situation once before with Samak firing away, insisted on an answer. "If you don't expect us to ask who will become PM, what else should this event be all about?'' said Sutin. Samak shouted back the answer would be given in parliament. The war of words continued between them, upsetting a group of PPP members in the room who booed and jeered at the newsman. When facing more questions, Samak chose not to answer and cut it short by saying: "I'm not a fortune teller." When the Bangkok Post questioned the representatives of the PPP's allies, asking them what criteria they would use to choose a PM, and what kind of leadership and judgment they expect from the new premier, Samak bluntly shot back: "That question is too long and it wouldn't be answered," he said before closing the press conference.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/20Jan2008_news10.php

Same same!

Loop the loop!

I always thought that photo looked like a little Hitler with a chopped swastika.

I always thought that photo looked like a little Hitler with a chopped swastika.

With that nasty temperament I guess Japan has Godzilla and Thailand has Samakzilla. Tony got any photos of that one?

Edited January 20, 2008 by John K

[younghusband]

well, he's certainly is off to a roaring start....

SAMAK LOSES HIS COOL AGAIN

Refuses to answer most questions

A press conference held yesterday to announce the formation of a six-party coalition did not go as smoothly as planned for PPP leader Samak Sundaravej. A storm of questions from journalists ruffled the 72-year-old's feathers who could not hide his displeasure. Like his previous confrontations with the media, Samak did well again by dominating the stage and offering no substantial answers. Most members of the press wanted to know whether the five political parties would throw their support for sure behind his bid to become prime minister. Quickly responding to the question in his usual style, he suddenly turned the mood of newshounds hostile. "How can you ask this kind of question? I don't want to answer it," he bawled. The situation worsened when AP journalist Sutin Wannabovorn, who was caught in a similar situation once before with Samak firing away, insisted on an answer. "If you don't expect us to ask who will become PM, what else should this event be all about?'' said Sutin. Samak shouted back the answer would be given in parliament. The war of words continued between them, upsetting a group of PPP members in the room who booed and jeered at the newsman. When facing more questions, Samak chose not to answer and cut it short by saying: "I'm not a fortune teller." When the Bangkok Post questioned the representatives of the PPP's allies, asking them what criteria they would use to choose a PM, and what kind of leadership and judgment they expect from the new premier, Samak bluntly shot back: "That question is too long and it wouldn't be answered," he said before closing the press conference.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/20Jan2008_news10.php

Same same!

Loop the loop!

Here we go again, back to the schoolyard.Ah well.

[younghusband]

Ando I agree that the time to talk about the next coup is here, but there is one more issue on a possible red card that could dissolve the PPP. Depending on how that goes it will set the stage for the next event in Thai history. So it is still a few days before being able to make a call. However in general talking about the next coup is a valid topic.

Just a short note, I see Thaksin is holding out on cash for his team. I guess the honeymoon is about over and Manchester is starting to get a taste of the Real Thaksin.

Really, thinking of the next coup already? I would have thought Thais of all political persuasions are keen to avoid a further coup, not just because of the current junta's incompetence and unpopularity, but because the very clear adverse effect on the economy.

It always surprises me how foreign guests in this country,sometimes with proper visas and work permits and sometimes not, feel free to deny Thai people the democratic rights they take for granted in their own countries.

[Abrak]

Ando I agree that the time to talk about the next coup is here, but there is one more issue on a possible red card that could dissolve the PPP. Depending on how that goes it will set the stage for the next event in Thai history. So it is still a few days before being able to make a call. However in general talking about the next coup is a valid topic.

Just a short note, I see Thaksin is holding out on cash for his team. I guess the honeymoon is about over and Manchester is starting to get a taste of the Real Thaksin.

Really, thinking of the next coup already? I would have thought Thais of all political persuasions are keen to avoid a further coup, not just because of the current junta's incompetence and unpopularity, but because the very clear adverse effect on the economy.

It always surprises me how foreign guests in this country,sometimes with proper visas and work permits and sometimes not, feel free to deny Thai people the democratic rights they take for granted in their own countries.

I agree...

It is hard to imagine that 15 years ago Thailand was one of the most dynamic economies in the world driven by foreign direct investment rather liker Vietnam today.

We are now off the map...

The top 4 of 5 employees in this country are foreign - it is difficult to see them investing in the current political environment. Things are improving - lets hope it continues.

[Pierrot]

They have nothing to lose except their credibility (which is already badly damaged) and everything to gain

Hey, I have Thai family in Issarn and Bangkok. Mostly unskilled workers , but some middle ranking in the military. NONE of them supported the coup.

If the generals ran for election they would finish sixteenth out of a field of ten! I am not too woried about the natives.

and as typical in Thailand.. Your mileage may vary...

and representative of the current division in this country, my Thai family ALL supported the coup... and none of them voted for return the old TRT in the election. They and I are quite concerned about the "natives" in the current situation.

At least there is unity in your families.

In mine, half are from up north and support Thaksin, the other one, including the wife, true Bangkok blue blood, supports whatever-his-name from the so-called democrats. Main reason : he is good looking !!!

Following heated arguments a couple of month ago, politic is now a forbidden subject during family meetings.

[younghusband]

They have nothing to lose except their credibility (which is already badly damaged) and everything to gain

Hey, I have Thai family in Issarn and Bangkok. Mostly unskilled workers , but some middle ranking in the military. NONE of them supported the coup.

If the generals ran for election they would finish sixteenth out of a field of ten! I am not too woried about the natives.

and as typical in Thailand.. Your mileage may vary...

and representative of the current division in this country, my Thai family ALL supported the coup... and none of them voted for return the old TRT in the election. They and I are quite concerned about the "natives" in the current situation.

Many of us have Thai families here.As it happens most of mine, like the majority of the urban based Sino-Thai lower middle class, supported the coup initially.Similarly, as far as I know, none voted for the PPP.It would not occur to me for a moment, while understanding their concerns, to feel obliged to share their political viewpoint.Otherwise I would be intellectually in the same position of some empty headed sexpat who supports PPP because his Isarn companion blindly follows Thaksin.I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to enjoy the best education the UK can offer, but a high level of formal education isn't necessary to think independently.Try it why don't you (as Trink used to say).

What on earth do you mean by "natives" by the way? Do you mean those darker skinned people one sometimes sees in the ricefields on the way to Pattaya or Hua Hin.I think they are known as "Thais".

Edited January 20, 2008 by younghusband

[Pierrot]

Ando I agree that the time to talk about the next coup is here, but there is one more issue on a possible red card that could dissolve the PPP. Depending on how that goes it will set the stage for the next event in Thai history. So it is still a few days before being able to make a call. However in general talking about the next coup is a valid topic.

Just a short note, I see Thaksin is holding out on cash for his team. I guess the honeymoon is about over and Manchester is starting to get a taste of the Real Thaksin.

Really, thinking of the next coup already? I would have thought Thais of all political persuasions are keen to avoid a further coup, not just because of the current junta's incompetence and unpopularity, but because the very clear adverse effect on the economy.

It always surprises me how foreign guests in this country,sometimes with proper visas and work permits and sometimes not, feel free to deny Thai people the democratic rights they take for granted in their own countries.

I agree...

It is hard to imagine that 15 years ago Thailand was one of the most dynamic economies in the world driven by foreign direct investment rather liker Vietnam today.

We are now off the map...

The top 4 of 5 employees in this country are foreign - it is difficult to see them investing in the current political environment. Things are improving - lets hope it continues.

Agree too.

It has been said before that foreigners (!?) support the junta. It depends what you mean by "foreigners", (sexpat, I love the word) but foreign governments have always make clear that they consider Thaksin, whatever his shortcomings, as the legally and democratically elected leader of Thailand. I believe one of the reason of such a good ending to the coup, is that Western governments also made clear they will not welcome a second Burma in Asia.

[John K]

Ando I agree that the time to talk about the next coup is here, but there is one more issue on a possible red card that could dissolve the PPP. Depending on how that goes it will set the stage for the next event in Thai history. So it is still a few days before being able to make a call. However in general talking about the next coup is a valid topic.

Just a short note, I see Thaksin is holding out on cash for his team. I guess the honeymoon is about over and Manchester is starting to get a taste of the Real Thaksin.

Really, thinking of the next coup already? I would have thought Thais of all political persuasions are keen to avoid a further coup, not just because of the current junta's incompetence and unpopularity, but because the very clear adverse effect on the economy.

It always surprises me how foreign guests in this country,sometimes with proper visas and work permits and sometimes not, feel free to deny Thai people the democratic rights they take for granted in their own countries.

YH you know my view is not unique on this. If you take a look at the very big picture I am sure you will see it too.

[hammered]

While talking of the families we marreid into and how they voted mine were a tad different. All hail form the North of Thailand. Those working the farms up there voted solidly PPP. Thos escattered around Ayuthaya, Bangkok, Chonburi working in factories etc voted solidly Dem. Those up country tend to be over 35. those outside under 35. Politcs is a hard issue to discuss when they all get togther! Make of it what you will.

[John K]

Well with the PPP in charge and parliament starting tomorrow, I guess this little guy will be coming out of semi retirement in the news clipping forum. ===>

[ando]

I broadly agree with this. A few comments.

To analyse things correctly imho we need to accept that right now there are three power groups: The PPP and Thaksin allies and their electoral supporters, with large support from N and NE, some from lower urban working classes, and minority middle class support, which remain the strongest, the parliamentary opposition and their electoral supporters from the S, urban middle classes and some tax paying working class with minority support in other areas, and what is described as the elite which is made up of powrful military, burearacracy and certain business interests with support fronm other powerful groups but very little to no electoral backing.

When a few years back the demos started there was imho an alliance between the elite group and what later became the electoral backers of the now opposition. The elite were worried about the encroaching power of TRT and their pown loss of influence andsome stuff better not talked about. However, they did not have and still dont any real numbers so they needed to get these. The Shin case and the tax dodge was the catalyst. The taxpaying classes - both middle and upper working were not so happy at this and were gotten on board for the demos. The next bit of history we know resulting in the demise of the TRT government. Then it got interesting. Pretty soon it became clear that the coup installed government wasnt really interested in pushing corruption charges too hard or that they had been overstated, or more likely both. The elite installed government wanted and to some degree was succesful in reinstalling their own power over things - ISOC bill, lessening politcos power and half unelected senate. Suddenly we see the disdain for the coup installed government even among the taxpayers group as they see they have been had on several fronts - no real push of court cases, court cases not as strong as stated before, massive tax expenditure on the military, economy mishandled, and apart from the 111 ban even the Thaksin allies able to regroup and with time. Then we go to election etc

Now we have the situation where the elite group will find themselves even more isolated than before. PPP are in government and a few deals no doubt done to leave elite group alone in general for now. However, can the elite manipulate all those who voted against Thaksin again if they need cover for another coup? Certainly it would seem harder now. At some point it is likely there will be further demos but whether these will result in the savious being able to come in or will develop as part of the democracy of Thailand remains to be seen. In the three groups analysis I agree that there may possibly be one or even two more coups in the waiting but the effectivenss of each will only be less and less and the damage caused to those who launch then will become greater and greatwer as Thailand moves into a more democratic future where there will probably in the short term be a two party system (unless PPP fractures) although only one party in the short term will be able to win elections without a PPP fissure. The power of groups outside parliament behind the scenes to manipualte things will diminish rapidly although be replaced by powerful groups inj the parliamentary system influencing outcomes for a more corporate advantage (we kind of saw the real dawn of this with Thaksin and it will become more the norm. It is in many democracies already).

Another intereting thing to do is to take a step back and anmalyse where all the groups are right now if we look backa few years.

Thaksin and PPP are back in power after losing it. However, they lack the huge parliamentary majority and mandate they enjoyed back then. Maybe in retrospect Mr. Thaksin may think it would have been easier (and cheaper) to just have stood down and left his guys with that huge majority and submitted to the courts back then. Still PPP and Thaksin are established as the current dominant democratic force and after seeing their party disbanded.

The elite have seen their nemesis return in proxy form with a fresh mandate but they dont have to face a huge parliamentary majority that they did before. They have also pushed through their own constitution and ISOC laws. Then again they have also probably lost support amongst those who voted for the opposition leaving them in a really bad position in respect to having their constitution and laws undone with little opposition.

The parliamentary opposition supporters dont seem to have much right now, but if they can forget their hatreds of Mr. T for a minute and think back to their (not the elite) initial demands before all kinds of manipualtion and demonisation set in, they were asking for Mr. T to stand down and submit to the courts. That is where we are now, and if the cases are continued and heard fairly is also where it should end when the verdicts are in.

There has been a hard two year lesson for all in this. It is one that Thailand could probably do without repeating. Even though divided like not before it may be better that Thailand is at least now seemingly sorting this out in the formal politcal arena. While the PPP has a responsibilty to run the country properly for all Thai people as we hear endlessly, the Dems have possibly an even bigger responsibilty in assuming the role of a parliamentary opposition (and representing the view of a very large minority) that will both hold the governments feet to the fire when needed but also when appropriate give succour and advice to the government on issues of the day. Thailand as it develops democratically needs to establish the idea of a strong opposition being needed and good. This is particulalry true at the moment with the country divided but few seeming to want to see any more byzantine machinations from outside the formal networks of power.

An interesting and educational analysis.

Thankyou for your insights.

As with politics in every country it is very easy to be swayed when looking at individual issues. Only when one steps back and looks at the bigger picture do things start to fall into a truer perspective.

Re the possibility of another coup. My guess is that it is unlikely to happen unless Samak is foolish enough to gamble over some deadlocked issue for too long instead of going to the polls early. Manipulating the system to exonerate Thaksin being the most likely reason for bringing such an impasse to being. However, if played correctly, and Samak brings things to a head without blinking, AND IF THE GENERALS DONT JUMP FIRST, taking such an issue to the polls as a sort of a referendum would most likely result in the PPP gathering up all the votes it (TRT) lost to the smaller parties in the most recent election. A hung parliament split over one critical issue such as Thaksins exoneration (or perhaps partial exoneration), could be actually the issue to propel the PPP govern in its own right with a mandate from the people to undo a lot of the changes brought in by the junta, and specifically the juntas constitution. Certainly the threat of another coup would probably work in favour of PPP next time around as people would be forced to vote for stability and a strong government as opposed to the possibility of an interim, inept military regime. The military would be in an unenviable political position of having to decide weather or not to seize political control in an unpopular political climate or to just sit by and let it go. As Thailand military coups are not designed to put the military into permanent power, but rather to manipulate democracy, any unpopular intervention by the military would only damage their ultimate goal.

Thaksin back home as a free man, (though not as an active front line political figure),-- the PPP with a majority mandate to rule in its own right, --- and a new constitution overwhelmingly endorsed by the public and all parties that removes the militaries ability to seize power. That's the way I see it going down in Thailand over the next couple of years. Time will tell. But I think another coup would only reset the clock back to ensure the above mentioned outcome occurs sometime later down the track.

[Lilawadee]

Ando I agree that the time to talk about the next coup is here, but there is one more issue on a possible red card that could dissolve the PPP. So it is still a few days before being able to make a call.

Clutching at straws.. Fortunately though, the rest of the country is moving on.

However in general talking about the next coup is a valid topic. Just a short note, I see Thaksin is holding out on cash for his team. I guess the honeymoon is about over and Manchester is starting to get a taste of the Real Thaksin.

I'd say the blue side of Manchester is pretty happy with the way things are going in the Frank-era.

Really, thinking of the next coup already? I would have thought Thais of all political persuasions are keen to avoid a further coup, not just because of the current junta's incompetence and unpopularity, but because the very clear adverse effect on the economy.

Yes!, of course. Everyone can see that. Well, except for one or two or so.

It always surprises me how foreign guests in this country,sometimes with proper visas and work permits and sometimes not, feel free to deny Thai people the democratic rights they take for granted in their own countries.

Umm, I have a very proper visa, and I'm completely behind whatever semblance of democracy Thailand is afforded. I know what you speak of of course; not sure if democracy is truly only skin-deep in the West, or that 'expats' in Thailand get their compass of what's fair & just demagnetized a little, or that actually neither is the case but that people who are beyond the school playground (to quote someone else) have given up on this forum.

[gjones]

Most of this thread makes interesting reading but there is some serious obstacles ahead for Thailand and in the worse case scenario: he we don’t mention, could pass away thrusting Thailand into a greater political storm.

[sriracha john]

They have nothing to lose except their credibility (which is already badly damaged) and everything to gain

Hey, I have Thai family in Issarn and Bangkok. Mostly unskilled workers , but some middle ranking in the military. NONE of them supported the coup.

If the generals ran for election they would finish sixteenth out of a field of ten! I am not too woried about the natives.

and as typical in Thailand.. Your mileage may vary...

and representative of the current division in this country, my Thai family ALL supported the coup... and none of them voted for return the old TRT in the election. They and I are quite concerned about the "natives" in the current situation.

Many of us have Thai families here.As it happens most of mine, like the majority of the urban based Sino-Thai lower middle class, supported the coup initially.Similarly, as far as I know, none voted for the PPP.It would not occur to me for a moment, while understanding their concerns, to feel obliged to share their political viewpoint.Otherwise I would be intellectually in the same position of some empty headed sexpat who supports PPP because his Isarn companion blindly follows Thaksin.I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to enjoy the best education the UK can offer, but a high level of formal education isn't necessary to think independently.Try it why don't you (as Trink used to say).

What on earth do you mean by "natives" by the way? Do you mean those darker skinned people one sometimes sees in the ricefields on the way to Pattaya or Hua Hin.I think they are known as "Thais".

That's a good question for ando, who coined the term... and to which I added quotation marks to designate its antiquated usage and less-than-favorable conotations...

As for following my Thai family's political thinking, actually it's reverse of that. They've assimilated my political viewpoint on many levels. They're not obliged to, as you put it, but have reached those views after much discussion as they and I are both very independent thinkers...

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

foreign guests in this country, sometimes with proper visas and work permits and sometimes not,

Just curious, but is there any particular reason this type of statement has become a somewhat often refrain of yours? Is it some thinly-veiled attempt to besmirch some posters or is there some other less insidious reason? I don't see the relevance on the news clipping forum threads, although it might have some on various visa forum topics.

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[marshbags]

Perhaps it would be appropriate to ignore the thread before it sinks into " bedlam " terrritory and the major contributors ( who need no introduction ) and incidently work day in and day out to update us on all news items, hot of the various news media, are slagged off by suspicious newbies and recent contributors who have just come out of the woodwork and stepped into the various debates of the last year or so.

Don,t feed the Flamers / No Brainers out to bait us, silence is the best way forward.

My guess of a new thread title would be something in the context of

" Thaksin is Declared Innocent ??? "

Followed by

" Thailand in Turmoil...Again "

It,s gotta happen soon after the clone party establish themselves as the official goverment in power, scheduled for next month

marshbags

I agree this thread has served its purpose.

Can I just comment briefly on the suggestion that recent contributors "who have just come out of the woodwork" or for that matter newbies generally have less to contribute than old timers.It's a fallacy in my view because some so called newbies, I know for a fact,are immersed in the culture. politics and language of Thailand to a very impressive extent.I know also of knowledgeable contributors who have not become regular participants because they felt uncomfortable with the obsessive tone of some multiple posters, not so much because they disagreed but because of the relative lack of intellectual substance.There are also one or two missing members (I don't know for what reason) who contributed with real distinction and I hope will return in due course.

What's really needed is a healthy mix of old and new, the humility to accept that the truth is a complex concept, that sometimes one can be completely wrong and a generous spirited attitude towards those with whom one disagrees (Ok I know I have some work to do on that latter point!).

As the political history of Thailand moves into a new phase Samak will occupy centre stage.I wholly agree he is not a lovable figure and most of us western liberals shrink from such a person with such a record.Nevertheless he deserves a chance from the country (he has a mandate after all) and although obviously much less importantly he deserves a chance from this forum.Let's see how he does.What I fear that the debate will be dominated again by one note obsessiveness, "comical" pictures of his admittedly not very handsome face.....well, you get the picture.

The newbies i refer to are those who are existing members who conveniently sign up under another I.D. to have a go and cause mischief.

I / We welcome genuine newcomers to Thai Visa and enjoy fresh outlooks on existing threads that have been ongoing.

Nothing derogratory is meant in my post on this and never has been towards new members and i,m sure you do not intend it to appear that way.

It was and is one of my pet dislikes regarding senior members trying to undermine new members, it used to be really bad a couple of years ago.

Now most members have a different approach, thankfully and T.Visa has grown because of this, via reputation for fairness and quality posting.

It,s a long time since i read a new members contribution and them saying they were hesitant because of the have a go seniors who found them fair game due to their inexperience ect. on the forum.

The ones coming out of the woodwork refers to those who time their anticipation, intent on causing mischief and generally are not interested in substance, but just scroll round the threads looking for opportunities to jump in and stir.

Regarding Samak, ( like Thaksin when he first became P.M. )

They both committed offences unbecoming of the role of Premier of the Thai government.

Perhaps an example would put it more clearly.

Someone considered beneath the so called " Elite / priviliged ", who is unfortunate enough to be arrested on petty offences is usually not allowed bail and has an impossible task to prove their innocence.

They are sentenced to inhuman terms of inprisonment and not allowed bail pending an appeal ( if they are fortunate enough to provide impossible sureties )

They are not usually considered worthy of a chance or any considerations, not because they they could be innocent or the pettiness of the crime, simply because they are unprivilidged

Now consider the man you ask us to be given a chance and his circumstances.

Based on the above scenario Samak have joined Thaksin who should have been in lock up long ago awaiting trial and sentence and therefore, unqualified or be available to even put their names forward to partake in an election of this importance.

The evidence was / is there for all to see, but will it count for anything in court, as of late i sadly doubt it very much.

marshbags

Participants in the debates do not have to agree and this makes debating what it is meant to be.

Out and Out slagging off, flaming, feeding contributors with the intent of soley causing unrest / closing of threads ect. is not what it is all about

Edited January 20, 2008 by marshbags

[ando]

Test post.

I seem to be having some trouble posting a reply to SJ. Wonder what could be causing it?

[Abrak]

Based on the above scenario Samak have joined Thaksin who should have been in lock up long ago awaiting trial and sentence and therefore, unqualified or be available to even put their names forward to partake in an election of this importance.

The evidence was / is there for all to see, but will it count for anything in court, as of late i sadly doubt it very much.

marshbags

Participants in the debates do not have to agree and this makes debating what it is meant to be.

What absolute tosh...

Thaksin and Samak have been accused of nothing that would get them locked up. They are no better or worse than those who have gone before - Banharn and Chavalit.

The lack of evidence to justify the removal of Thaksin from power is what is so evident to me despite over one year of effort,,,

[ando]

OK here we go. Things seem to be working again. Answer to SJ.

"That's a good question for ando, who coined the term... and to which I added quotation marks to designate its antiquated usage and less-than-favorable conotations..."

re the term "natives".

If you go back and peruse the thread you will find my answer was in reply to another poster who used the term in a satirical photo he posted.

And in any case I don't find the term the least bit offencive when used in the context of describing the country of ones birth.

Whew! talk about going off track in the thread and making personal snipes!

I suppose this post will be deleted and the thread closed now?

[sriracha john]

Based on the above scenario Samak have joined Thaksin who should have been in lock up long ago awaiting trial and sentence and therefore, unqualified or be available to even put their names forward to partake in an election of this importance.

The evidence was / is there for all to see, but will it count for anything in court, as of late i sadly doubt it very much.

marshbags

Participants in the debates do not have to agree and this makes debating what it is meant to be.

What absolute tosh...

Thaksin and Samak have been accused of nothing that would get them locked up. They are no better or worse than those who have gone before - Banharn and Chavalit.

In Samak's case, he's not been accused, he's been convicted.... and he was convicted for something that would get him "locked up." 2 years worth of something.

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

OK here we go. Things seem to be working again. Answer to SJ.

"That's a good question for ando, who coined the term... and to which I added quotation marks to designate its antiquated usage and less-than-favorable conotations..."

re the term "natives".

If you go back and peruse the thread you will find my answer was in reply to another poster who used the term in a satirical photo he posted.

And in any case I don't find the term the least bit offencive when used in the context of describing the country of ones birth.

Whew! talk about going off track in the thread and making personal snipes!

I suppose this post will be deleted and the thread closed now?

I hope younghusband appreciates your answer to his question.

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[ando]

Thaksin and Samak have been accused of nothing that would get them locked up. They are no better or worse than those who have gone before - Banharn and Chavalit.

The lack of evidence to justify the removal of Thaksin from power is what is so evident to me despite over one year of effort,,,

I think the junta have been so fixated on vilifying Thaksin that they have made him a folk hero of sorts among the poor. Particularly the poor who the junta have held under martial law through the election and the lead up to it.

When it comes down to a contest between the return of Thaksin and the potential for another coup, I am confidant the vast majority of people would choose Thaksin. That is not to count out the Democrats as irrelevant. They would still maintain their substantial voter base. Its just that if the focus remains on Thaksin, the primary political issue would become a contest between Thaksin and the military rather than between the PPP and the Democrats.

[ando]

OK here we go. Things seem to be working again. Answer to SJ.

"That's a good question for ando, who coined the term... and to which I added quotation marks to designate its antiquated usage and less-than-favorable conotations..."

re the term "natives".

If you go back and peruse the thread you will find my answer was in reply to another poster who used the term in a satirical photo he posted.

And in any case I don't find the term the least bit offencive when used in the context of describing the country of ones birth.

Whew! talk about going off track in the thread and making personal snipes!

I suppose this post will be deleted and the thread closed now?

I hope younghusband appreciates your answer to his question.

[sriracha john]

The lack of evidence to justify the removal of Thaksin from power is what is so evident to me despite over one year of effort,,,

How much more evidence will be revealed at the actual trials (they still are going to happen according to the 5 pre-conditions coalition promise, yes?)?

For Thailand's particular system, most defendants must be present for trials to proceed. Which is fine, that's what they've chosen and in absentia trials are rare. But if he's been the one avoiding apprehension and evading outstanding arrest warrants, who is responsible for these trials (and evidence presentations) not occurring yet?

To say there is a lack of evidence when the trials haven't occurred yet in which the evidence will be presented seems to be a cart and horse scenario.

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[Pierrot]

Most of this thread makes interesting reading but there is some serious obstacles ahead for Thailand and in the worse case scenario: he we don't mention, could pass away thrusting Thailand into a greater political storm.

I think the recent events have the advantage to have clarified the situation.

Put it simply, Western nation do not want an other Burma in Asia. Thailand does not have the option to turn to China if relation with USA and Europe turn sour. The deal is clear, Thailand must return to a democratically elected government and the army should go back to its barracks. Some future lucrative contracts may have help to sweenten the deal, an explanation for the future spending the army has negotiated before the election.

The junta and the old guard agreed, thinking they could direct the electors the "right" way with the help of the "democrats". The election didn't turn the way they expected but they were tied by the deal : "democratic" election ...

The old guard, when they realized the battle was lost, tried to negociate some kind amnesty for themself (more specially regarding the future of Prem) before allowing the minor party to join the PPP and some "face saving" operation will probably happend in the near future. But it's now clear that the "moderns" have won against the old guard, especially for the army, who have less to lose from a PPP victory and more to win from a return to "normal" international relation and may even have negociated some lucrative deal against PPP victory. So I don't believe they will have any interest to leave their barracks anytime soon.

And if the "democrats" eventually learn what democracy means, we may even have one day real democratic election.

A simple way to "reality check" my theory is to look at the number of major military deals in the past two years. If they are close to nothing, I'm probably right.

[sriracha john]

PPP to submit Yongyuth as Parliament Head

Deputy Leader of the People’s Power Party (PPP) Somphong Amornwiwat revealed that his party is preparing to submit names for positions in the newly erected Parliament. The PPP is expected to only submit one name to the position of Parliament Chairman.

The PPP is planning to submit the name of member Yongyuth Thiyaphairat to be the chairman of the parliament. The party is also considering other undisclosed individuals for other positions in the parliament. Nonetheless, the PPP states that it must meet with the other 5 parties within the coalition before making furthe decisions on the matter.

- ThaiNews

---------------------------------------------------------------

Officials slammed over raid

Ayutthaya house hit with 200 bullets

The PM's Secretary-General Yongyuth Tiyapairat led 50 commandos on a raid yesterday on the home of a suspected illegal-drug producer in Ayutthaya's Bang Sai district that saw authorities fire some 200 rounds into the house.

A 70-year-old man was shot in the controversial early morning raid, which yielded no evidence of drug production - and has been labelled a human rights violation.

- The Nation / July 8, 2004

---------------------------------------------------------------

BUNGLED HOUSE RAID: Panel calls for heads to roll

Labels storming suspicious, seeks resignations of Yongyuth, CSD head

The House committee on justice and human rights yesterday said the controversial raid on a house in Ayutthaya was suspicious, and its secretary called for the resignations of a police commander and the prime minister’s secretary.

- The Nation / July 15, 2004

Edited January 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

foreign guests in this country, sometimes with proper visas and work permits and sometimes not,

Just curious, but is there any particular reason this type of statement has become a somewhat often refrain of yours? Is it some thinly-veiled attempt to besmirch some posters or is there some other less insidious reason? I don't see the relevance on the news clipping forum threads, although it might have some on various visa forum topics.

I don't think I have even mentioned the term "work permit" before.In any event I doubt whether there are any Thai Visa members covertly or overtly touting for work on this forum who are not properly legal in terms of appropriate visa, work permit and business license.If there are they would be rather foolish as without being paranoid I'm sure the forum is monitored albeit with a light hand.Anyway that's not my point.

However there is a distinction to be drawn between those who have legitimate reason to be here on a long term basis and those who are more temporary.The latter are of course very welcome as tourists or even as long term residents.However those who have a more permanent stake in the country -and paying Thai income tax is a reasonable test-might reasonably be expected to have a greater grasp of Thai realities.It's not very controversial and certainly not meant to "besmirch" anyone.