Red-shirts To Hold Mass Rally On Saturday

[webfact]

That makes me wonder...

"...revealed that the red shirt group had the right to collect 1 million signatures on a petition..."

Why 1 million?

[sriracha john]

That makes me wonder...

"...revealed that the red shirt group had the right to collect 1 million signatures on a petition..."

Why 1 million?

It's a number they like to use.

BANGKOK, April 4 (Xinhua) -- According to local media, the UDD leaders are confident that the scheduled mass rally on April 8 would "attract over one million people" and justify their calls for dissolving the coalition government and holding a new general election.

[hammered]

That makes me wonder...

"...revealed that the red shirt group had the right to collect 1 million signatures on a petition..."

Why 1 million?

It is always pressure from numbers. Standard Thaksin playbook tactic. Right back to the asset case in 2001 when judges were kept constantly aware of numbers who had voted for Thaksin. Then right through career to now.

Of course in a democracy it doesnt matter if everyone voted for you, loves you, wants to leap into bed with you or whatever when it comes to a question of law..... However, it worked very well for Thaksin in the 2001 case and remains a tactic to be tried again and again. Since the Songkhran violence it also has exposed the other side to it when implying numbers.

Million signatures, a couple of by-election victories, memories of recent violence.... And the asset seizure case is almost upon us. Things are going to get hotter. Thai message boards and to some degree papers are already talking of a lot of stuff that isnt in the English language media. The asset seizure is a big point in this game.

[animatic]

The asset seizure is a big point in this game.

There's the rub for sure....

[ballpoint]

""I want to go back to live in a country blessed by the royal patronage of his majesty," Thaksin said, referring to Thailand's revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej. ""

I'm sure PM Mark could arrange a comfortable plane to bring him back any time he is ready to make the committment - instead of bleating like a sheep ad nauseum.

I'm sure he'd find a warm welcome at any of His Majesties prison service guest houses. Given his fondness for a song, they might even let him accompany their orchestra in the next "Music in the park". Although, he'd probably try to buy the park and then sell it to an Abu Dhabi businessman.

http://www.correct.go.th/comnet1/news/news12e/

[sriracha john]

Thaksin must appy for pardon himself

Senate Speaker Prasopsuk Boondej on Monday advised former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to seek a Royal Pardon by himself.

He was commenting on reports of a campaign to gather up to one million signatures of the people to support a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a Royal Pardon for Thaksin. Mr Prasopsuk said he was not sure if other people could do that for Thaksin because normally it is a convict himself which can submit a petition to seek a Royal Pardon.

Earlier on Monday, Puea Thai Party Leader Yongyuth Wichaidith denied it was a Party resolution for the Party's MPs to campaign for the people to sign up the petition for Thaksin. They were probably doing so on

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...rdon-by-himself

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-29

[hammered]

Thaksin must appy for pardon himself

Senate Speaker Prasopsuk Boondej on Monday advised former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to seek a Royal Pardon by himself.

He was commenting on reports of a campaign to gather up to one million signatures of the people to support a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a Royal Pardon for Thaksin. Mr Prasopsuk said he was not sure if other people could do that for Thaksin because normally it is a convict himself which can submit a petition to seek a Royal Pardon.

Earlier on Monday, Puea Thai Party Leader Yongyuth Wichaidith denied it was a Party resolution for the Party's MPs to campaign for the people to sign up the petition for Thaksin. They were probably doing so on

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...rdon-by-himself

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-29

As certain members of the UDD have been through this process themselves in the past they should be aware of the protocol of the individual submitting the appeal themselves part way through a sentence. The petition move is just aimed at creating pressure. Interesting where the pressure is being applied. Apparently not all UDD leaders are overly happy at this route.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin must appy for pardon himself

Senate Speaker Prasopsuk Boondej on Monday advised former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to seek a Royal Pardon by himself.

He was commenting on reports of a campaign to gather up to one million signatures of the people to support a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a Royal Pardon for Thaksin. Mr Prasopsuk said he was not sure if other people could do that for Thaksin because normally it is a convict himself which can submit a petition to seek a Royal Pardon.

Earlier on Monday, Puea Thai Party Leader Yongyuth Wichaidith denied it was a Party resolution for the Party's MPs to campaign for the people to sign up the petition for Thaksin. They were probably doing so on

As certain members of the UDD have been through this process themselves in the past they should be aware of the protocol of the individual submitting the appeal themselves part way through a sentence. The petition move is just aimed at creating pressure. Interesting where the pressure is being applied. Apparently not all UDD leaders are overly happy at this route.

Surachai opposed to Royal Pardon idea

A leader of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship on Monday voiced disapproval of an idea to use the masses to support a petition to seek a Royal Pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, saying doing so would be tantamount to an admission of guilt.

Surachai Danwattananusorn, better known a Surachai Sae Dan, a second-generation UDD leader, criticised Veera Musikapong, a UDD leader, for raising such idea. He said Veera raised the proposal during a UDD rally on the night of June 27 without prior consulations with other UDD leaders. "I was stunned. I was sitting on the stage, waiting for my turn to speak. But when Mr Veera raised that idea, I was dumbfounded," said Surachai.

Surachai said it was not possible to seek a royal pardon for Thaksin through this channel, and Veera should know this well. Both Surachai and Veera had been freed in the past from imprisonment with a Royal Pardon. Surachai said a campaign to gather signatures of people to support the petition could be seen as using the masses to apply pressure on His Majesty. Moreover, doing so is tantamount to admitting guilt. Thaksin had never admitted guilt, and fled abroad to escape punishment.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...yal-pardon-idea

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-29

Edited June 29, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Seeing the same sort of disarray and in-fighting amongst the Red Shirts that has been troubling the Puea Thai Party for months.

[sriracha john]

"Thaksin supporters gather signatures to seek Royal Pardon for him"

Democrat Party spokesman Dr Buranat Samutrak said on Monday the move by Thaksin's supporters to petition His Majesty the King to pardon him would be in vain because Royal Pardon could be granted only to convicts who are serving jail terms.

"We have found that they have already organised a gathering of signatures in some villages. This is a very scary situation,'' Buranat said.

He said Thaksin had earlier given interview to the Japan Times and CNN that he would seek royal pardon from the King and only the King could resolve political conflicts.

The spokesman said he believed Thaksin would use signatures of his supporters to put pressure for Royal Pardon the same way he had earlier claimed that he had 19 millions Thais supporting him.

Reacting to opposition from the Democrats, former Supreme Commander General Chaiyasit Shinawatra said that the government should not oppose the move by ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatras' supporters to seek Royal Pardon for him.

Thaksin's elder brother [actually, elder cousin] said supporters of the former premier made up of a large group of people in the country and they had the right to petition the King to pardon Thaksin.

"I believe this is a venue to achieve national conciliation and bring peace to the country. But there are some groups of people who do not accept the move because they see Thaksin as enemy,'' Chaiyasit said.

Veera Musikapong, a leader of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship addressed the red-shirt rally on Saturday that his group was planning to seek millions of signatures of Thaksin's supporters to petition the King to pardon Thaksin.

Thaksin also phoned in to more than 30,000 supporters that gathered at Sanam Luang on Saturday urging them to help him return to the country.

Chaiyasit declined to say if Thaksin was behind the move.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva refused to answer if the red-shirts have the right to petition for Royal Pardon for Thaksin.

-- The Nation 2009-06-29

Edited June 29, 2009 by sriracha john

[sunholidaysun1]

- Straits Times / 2009-06-28

"Those who stabbed me in the back, don't worry. I've already forgiven you."

These are the best...

The bullets have their names on them.

[Datsun240Z]

This is really the wrong way for the red shirt, the should have watched more videos from Adolf.

[Insight]

Surachai Danwattananusorn, better known a Surachai Sae Dan, a second-generation UDD leader, criticised Veera Musikapong, a UDD leader, for raising such idea. He said Veera raised the proposal during a UDD rally on the night of June 27 without prior consulations with other UDD leaders. "I was stunned. I was sitting on the stage, waiting for my turn to speak. But when Mr Veera raised that idea, I was dumbfounded," said Surachai.

....

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-29

Bit of proof there that they really do get up on stage and largely wing it.

And x0,000 people from Nakhon wherever sit there going along with it all.

People say independent thought is hard to find round these parts? No sh!t...

/edit - just been informed by our maid that there's gossip from red side of things about a few red-shirts being shot after the protests. No more details so super-vague. Anybody heard anything?

Edited June 29, 2009 by Insight

[sriracha john]

Thaksin may not be entitled to pardon

Justice Minister Peerapan Saleerathawipak said on Monday that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra may not be entitled to get a Royal Pardon. He said that in practice a person to seek a royal pardon must be a convict who must have served some time in prison in the country.

Mr Peerapan said there has never been a precedent of the people signing up a petition to request for a Royal Pardon for anyone before. He said there is not a law that fixed criteria for authorities to follow because it is the King's power whether or not to pardon individual convicts. He said in most cases, it is the convicts themselves or their relatives that lodge the petition.

Usually, a convict entitled to be pardoned must have served time in the country. In Thaksin's case, the former prime minister is abroad and has never been imprisoned in the country, making it even more unlikely for him to seek a Royal Pardon.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1474...itled-to-pardon

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-29

[Koo82]

Why would he not be allowed a phone-in? In a democracy anyone is allowed to freely speak his mind, no? I thought the current government was 'democratically elected'? Or at least a democratic coup or something like that.

[Koo82]

Wow, such a bad lightning- and rain-storm around my office now.

The gods don't like troublemakers.

Under soft rains, when the rain stopped, from back or front, they didn't look anything like troublemakers:

My own photos in case anyone wants to ask.

[sriracha john]

Why would he not be allowed a phone-in? In a democracy anyone is allowed to freely speak his mind, no? I thought the current government was 'democratically elected'? Or at least a democratic coup or something like that.

A heads up for the benefit of the clueless... as an additional heads up, freedom of speech has curtailments amongst all democracies...

EC to review legality of former PM's phone-in during by-election

BANGKOK, 29 June 2009 (NNT) – The Election Commission (EC) will probe a phone-in by deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to his supporters during the recent by-election in Sisaket province.

EC member Sodsri Sattayathum said Thaksin's phone-in to anti-government protesters in Sisaket province during the past weekend's by-election might be considered inappropriate persuasion and endorsement of the opposition Puea Thai Party.

Ms Sodsri said a special committee had been formed to review the matter.

However, she commented that the accusation of voter persuasion might be offensive to the voters.

-- NNT 2009-06-29

[sriracha john]

Wow, such a bad lightning- and rain-storm around my office now.

The gods don't like troublemakers.

Under soft rains, when the rain stopped, from back or front, they didn't look anything like troublemakers:

They do look demonic, however...

A supporter of ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra gathers as a Thai demon during a rally Saturday, June 27, 2009, in Bangkok, Thailand.

Associated Press

[Koo82]

People remember them for things they HAVE done, like trying to kill Abhisit, twice, dispersing Asean summit, burning Bangkok - stuff like that.

And they promised to be peaceful all along, without dropping an eyelid.

Did you forget the reds were attacked by the blues so they came into the Summit to ask why people did that to them?

Trying to kill Abhisit? Did you forget that on 12th April, after the State of Emergency was announced for Bangkok and provinces nearby, Abhisit and Suthep had left Interior Ministry before the reds arrived? Tpbs had this news on youtube. Maybe "trying to kill his car". Did you know how many reds were in the arrest list for this? People Channels said only 4 reds. The rest you know who.

Burning Bangkok? 52 buses were hijacked but no reports from bus users were heard on the day how and when it happened. No photos of the ones who hijacked. The reds couldn't go near Government House but buses were driven in the area nearby easily.

Gas tankers? One from Nonthaburi. One from Bangkok. Under the same owners. No report how they were hijacked. The one parked near Pullman King Power didn't cause any effect.

Did you hear what Sondhi said?

[sriracha john]

We're back to November 2008 tactics...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Begs...97.html&hl=

Thaksin Begs For "Royal Kindness"

MESSAGE FROM EXILE

Thaksin begs for "royal kindness"

Ousted and convicted leader said only "kindness" of HM the King or "power of the people" could bring him home.

And repeated again in March 2009... which he subsequently denied at the time...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Repo...186.html&p=

Thaksin Reportedly Sought Royal Pardon, Royal Household Bureau Denies Existence of Pardon Requests by Thaksin

Ousted Thai premier wants royal pardon

TOKYO (AFP / 52 minutes ago) — Thailand's ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra said in an interview published on Thursday that he had asked his king to pardon him on corruption charges and wants to make a political comeback.

"I wrote him three letters already because I believed in His Majesty's kindness and wisdom," Thaksin reportedly told the English-language daily Japan Times.

"If I get a pardon, I know my supporters would be happy and we would not need to fight back anymore and prove anything."

"It is up to His Majesty and his generosity," Thaksin, who lives in exile to avoid a jail term back home, was quoted as saying.

Is Thaksin serious about seeking a Royal Pardon?

The red shirts have generated so much vibes even though rally organisers and former premier Thaksin Shinawatra just rehashed their old remarks on Saturday.

During his phone-in, Thaksin spoke with heavy sarcasm to attack the Democrat-led coalition. Like his past speeches, he portrayed himself as Thailand's only saviour from the economic woes.

Key organisers, such as Veera Musigapong and Jatuporn Promphan, reiterated an old demand for House dissolution to pave the way for a snap election.

For dramatic effect, and perhaps buoyed by the by-election results in Sakon Nakhon and Sisaket, they set a one-month deadline for the government to comply.

The red-shirt plans, such as fanning the opposition movement and holding a series of political rallies nationwide, were anticipated and not a surprise.

It was not the first time that Veera and Thaksin held a scripted conversation via the phone-in to allude to a Royal Pardon designed to rescue the ex-premier from his political and legal predicament.

The two brought up the idea of a Royal Pardon last year at a red-shirt rally held at the indoor stadium in Hua Mark.

Yet friends and foes again made noisy reactions in spite of the fact that the two said nothing new.

In his capacity as the master of ceremony for the phone-in, Veera asked a leading question whether Thaksin was considering his option to petition for a Royal Pardon.

Right on cue, Thaksin said in his reply, "It is up to His Majesty's kindness."

Veera then proceeded to suggest that he would spearhead the signature campaign to solicit the support of 1 million voters to back Thaksin's petition.

The Thaksin-Veera telephone conversation followed the same script used last year at the indoor stadium phone-in.

The idea of a Royal Pardon attracted huge publicity last year, although the signature campaign made no real headway. On Saturday, the idea was recirculated and commanded full attention once again from parties concerned.

If last year's signature campaign could be an indication, then it is safe to assume that neither Thaksin nor Veera are serious about the actual campaign launch.

The two just want to find a pretext to take a swipe at the country's revered institution and mock the lese majeste clause at the same time.

When uneducated villagers know how to petition the Royal Palace to address their grievances, it is unthinkable that elites like Thaksin and Veera are so naive on the pardon procedures.

Thaksin can answer for himself why he appears determined to politicise the monarchy although he has been insisting on his unwavering loyalty.

It is evident that Thaksin can manage to sway the sentiment by trying to involve the Royal Palace in his predicament. Will such tactics prove to benefit him or the country in the long run?

By portraying himself as a victim of injustice, he has been lamenting he was ousted from power at the expense of democratic principles.

If a coup is a cardinal sin for a democracy, then how will he justify any attempts, regardless of good or bad intentions, to undermine the monarchy?

If Thaksin is committed to seek Royal Pardon, then he should know the first step is to humble himself before the rule of law instead of acting like he is above the law.

Former Philippines President Joseph Estrada served time during his graft trial, hence the justification for the pardon following his conviction.

Thaksin's idol Nelson Mandela of South Africa spent decades behind bars before staging a political comeback.

On top of the two-year jail verdict issued last year, Thaksin has yet to be tried for 17 other cases.

Assuming each case would last about a year, he should have almost two decades to weigh his options.

The Royal Pardon can be an option only if he accepts the rule of law. Otherwise he should be reminded that no exiled leader in modern Thai history ever returned alive.

-- The Nation 2009-06-30

[Datsun240Z]

Why would he not be allowed a phone-in? In a democracy anyone is allowed to freely speak his mind, no? I thought the current government was 'democratically elected'? Or at least a democratic coup or something like that.

Go Reds!!!

[sriracha john]

Why would he not be allowed a phone-in? In a democracy anyone is allowed to freely speak his mind, no? I thought the current government was 'democratically elected'? Or at least a democratic coup or something like that.

Go Reds!!!

another Ohio baseball fan I see...

[cloghead]

C'mon now...the Reds have won 2 games in a row. Is this a streak or what???

[grandpops]

Business as usual on the side of the forces against democracy.

The puppet PM looking bewildered (when he can be found) whilst all the powers installed by the coup rush to ensure his opponents are banned, sidelined etc.

Courts declare Thaksin meddling whilst not declaring that Newin was running a militia around pattaya. Courts declaring Newin banned from politics when it suited them but not banned enough for him to head (and lets be sure about this, he has more clout than Abhisit) a coalition in a murky snatch of power from the voters.

The muppets and puppets running this country can only get away with so many of these blatant violations and abuses of rules (can't call them laws) put in place by the coup. Twice this week the EC are meddling with peoples votes.

Even in a country with a proper scary army and police force (Iran), people will come out and protest when things get bad enough.

[grandpops]

C'mon now...the Reds have won 2 games in a row. Is this a streak or what???

They have actually won every election for 9 years now despite all the meddling, coups, banning, rule changes, PAD antics, TV stations banned, cooking PM's banned one sided court rulings etc.

This is the problem. They have enough voters who have repeatedly cast their votes for other that Abhisit.

Some on here just don't get it and never will, but the fact remains, this Government is only where it is now as a direct result of a Coup and continued meddling and conniving by the haters of democracy.

Lovely as an educated middle class backed Government may sound to some falangs, the truth about Thailand is that poor church mice from the rest of the world would send financial aid to the majority of Thais in the Country, if they could write on the envelopes.

Ironically for the elites, it is exactly because they have robbed, oppressed under educated and deprived of health care (Until Thaksin stepped in that is) the poor, that there is not enough middle class people around to win an election!

[sriracha john]

UDD veteran snubs pardon for Thaksin

A core member of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship has joined criticism of a proposed campaign seeking a Royal Pardon for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. UDD Leader Surachai sae Dan, a veteran of the red shirt movement, said he would oppose the petition if the UDD was serious about going ahead with it.

The campaign to seek a pardon was announced at Saturday's red shirt rally at Sanam Luang by UDD Leader Veera Musikhapong. He will seek a pardon for Thaksin by gathering a million signatures. Surachai said: "I was convicted [of being a communist] and given the death sentence. I did not need a campaign to be launched to seek a Royal Pardon. My son could do that."

If the petition proceeds, it would confirm Thaksin was guilty, he said. He also noted that the campaign had not been discussed by party members. "I am not saying that I do not want him to come back. If he was in jail, we would seek a pardon. At issue here is that we do not accept the jail sentence, which is political."

Senate Speaker Prasopsuk Boondej yesterday questioned if a petition to seek a royal pardon was even possible. "There has never been a case like this," Mr Prasopsuk said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1935...don-for-thaksin

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-30

[Xangsamhua]

UDD veteran snubs pardon for Thaksin

A core member of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship has joined criticism of a proposed campaign seeking a Royal Pardon for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. UDD Leader Surachai sae Dan, a veteran of the red shirt movement, said he would oppose the petition if the UDD was serious about going ahead with it.

At issue here [said Surachai] is that we do not accept the jail sentence, which is political."

I'm genuinely curious to know in what way the court decision was political. Is there evidence, e.g in the way the judges were appointed, malfeasance in the judicial practices, acceptance of bribes, misunderstanding of the law, or whatever, that shows the court's decision to be politically determined?

If someone could explain simply by what evidence we can know that Thaksin was wrongly judged, I, for one, would certainly have a rethink about things.

[sriracha john]

The Red Rally on June 27th... as per Bangkok Post's political cartoon...

[animatic]

C'mon now...the Reds have won 2 games in a row. Is this a streak or what???

Don't the BVD's go in the wash when they get a big streak?

[hammered]

UDD veteran snubs pardon for Thaksin

A core member of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship has joined criticism of a proposed campaign seeking a Royal Pardon for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. UDD Leader Surachai sae Dan, a veteran of the red shirt movement, said he would oppose the petition if the UDD was serious about going ahead with it.

At issue here [said Surachai] is that we do not accept the jail sentence, which is political."

I'm genuinely curious to know in what way the court decision was political. Is there evidence, e.g in the way the judges were appointed, malfeasance in the judicial practices, acceptance of bribes, misunderstanding of the law, or whatever, that shows the court's decision to be politically determined?

If someone could explain simply by what evidence we can know that Thaksin was wrongly judged, I, for one, would certainly have a rethink about things.

Surachai is a long time leftists who iirc received a pardon himself once (I wait to be corrected ). Anyway, this analysis of poltically motivated trial and outcome (whatever the merits of the arguement) are a major one for socialist analysis of the state actions.

More to the point while that analysis permutate the whole red movement it may be that stressing the political motivation of the decision is something closer to the leftists than to the pragmatics and pure Thaksin supporters who may not care that a pardon implicitly accepts guilt as long as it gets the guy free. Those seeking some kind of socialism may not care too much if Thaksin is hounded for the rest of his life if it highlights their arguements while the more Thaksinista's and the man himself may not be too worried about abandoning an "ideal" if it achieves a result.

The details of the case and the decison have been discussed elsewhere (be careful as criticisng a court decison is a crime). In short though it seems to depend on who is backed as to what is thought of the decision. I guess it should be mentioned that several foreign countries have accepted the decison of the Thai judicial system at least implicitly by making Mr. Thaksin unwelcome.