Red-shirts To Hold Mass Rally On Saturday

[Koo82]

They never plan to do anything which can violate laws.

Who will believe them?

I forgot that they violated traffic law and held meetings of more than 5 people.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Koo82

[Koo82]

They never plan to do anything which can violate laws.

Who will believe them?

Why not?

They haven't broken into NBT tv station.

They haven't lived inside the Government House.

They haven't stopped MPs from going into the Parliament House.

They didn't attack any policemen.

They haven't blocked any airport.

[Plus]

People remember them for things they HAVE done, like trying to kill Abhisit, twice, dispersing Asean summit, burning Bangkok - stuff like that.

And they promised to be peaceful all along, without dropping an eyelid.

[hansnl]

Red-shirt leaders confirm plan to hold mass rally on Saturday

BANGKOK: -- The red-shirt leaders Wednesday confirmed their plan to hold a mass rally at Sanam Luang on Saturday.

Speaking at a press conference, Veera Musigapong said the mass rally would start at 4 pm.

Natthawut Saikua said the red-shirt people would reaffirm their intention to fight against the bureaucratic polity and to return democracy to the country.

The rally will continue until 6 am on Sunday and the protesters would not move from Sanam Luang, Natthawut said.

-- The Nation 2009-06-24

It goes on and on because the present government really does not have a mandate.

They do have a mandate by a coalition of parties.

(Same as Mr T.)

[hansnl]

They never plan to do anything which can violate laws.

Who will believe them?

Why not?

They haven't broken into NBT tv station.

They haven't lived inside the Government House.

They haven't stopped MPs from going into the Parliament House.

They didn't attack any policemen.

They haven't blocked any airport.

They are a prime example of law abiding citizens.

Indeed, the yellow shirts did the above,

But plain violence, including killing, not.

[webfact]

The best way is to leave the reds alone at Sanam Luang. They'll come home after 6:00am the next day. They never plan to do anything which can violate laws. They said in future meetings, if they want to move, all of them will go together. They won't split into small groups.

Do you really think people will trust these promises? Take a survey in Din Daeng... as a small example only. Vox Populi!

[baht&sold]

Let freedom ring???? (methinks someone's watching too much Hannity on FOX/Dubya news;)

Anyways, as usual, an interesting week in Thailand's snakes n ladders political 'game'. One sincerely hopes the red-rally is indeed a peaceful one and doesn't become another square-faced incited full-blown red-riot...

Scoreline thus far: Yellow/airports 1, Red/riots 1, Thailand 0 (well below 0 actually).

With the weight of both an economic downturn on top of swine flu 'fever', at this point the most desirable outcome would be seeing the current Govt ride out the multiple crisis's with inevitable elections by year-end (a bit of stability is much needed now)

However, the more Thailand plunges in regards to tourism and the overall economy, plus the more instability created, all greatly benefits the man calling on the big red telephone... Thus, despite public promises of a peaceful red-rally, there remains some cause for concern (especially given the 'happy Thai new year' welcome wrought last time by the reds- at Mr Thaksin's desperate urgings). Also, the 'sweepstakes' to return Mr Thaksin to power is enhanced by the fast approaching court date on July 16 to confiscate his frozen 76 billion baht...

Meanwhile, it appears the Dem led Govt has had to play both leader AND opposition to prevent Mr Newin's Bhumjai from sucking the marrow from public coffers via every 'scheme' from buses, to crop bids, to ICT shenanigans and on and on... Basically Mr Newin's style is almost a mirror-image of his former (?) colleague Mr Thaksin (stated 'former?' as opportunists can always switch back at a drop of a baht in Thai politics).

Thus the Dems are extremely unwanted by those who feel threatened by all the Dems 'silly' transparency demands. Rather, they seek to protect and serve a 'hard-earned' (and very rewarding system) of corruption, collusion and intimidation.

Ultimately, Thailand has to change of course but with everyone from Mr Newin to Mr Thaksin to local mafia type true 'elite' families controlling most regions, plus much of the police and some factions in the military unwilling, the Dems have a seemingly impossible task ahead.

Still, one wishes PM Abhisit good wisdom and good luck - he will require much, of both.

Red, yellow, blue, or hues, personally fed up with the lot.

(at least with BBC's Jonathan Head rumoured to be transferred to Turkey, one won't have to watch Mr Thaksin's mini-me Jakrapob urging reds to 'take' Bangkok in another 'exclusive', seemingly harmonious interview from JH's CBD balcony...)

[rixalex]

BBC's Jonathan Head rumoured to be transferred to Turkey

Turkey? Timbuktu would have been a more appropriate destination!

[Datsun240Z]

Try Siberia!

[jumnien]

Nothing more annoying than foreign journalists when you are trying to run a coup-installed mafia government and desperately avoid elections.

[animatic]

Let freedom ring???? (methinks someone's watching too much Hannity on FOX/Dubya news;)

Anyways, as usual, an interesting week in Thailand's snakes n ladders political 'game'. One sincerely hopes the red-rally is indeed a peaceful one and doesn't become another square-faced incited full-blown red-riot...

Scoreline thus far: Yellow/airports 1, Red/riots 1, Thailand 0 (well below 0 actually).

With the weight of both an economic downturn on top of swine flu 'fever', at this point the most desirable outcome would be seeing the current Govt ride out the multiple crisis's with inevitable elections by year-end (a bit of stability is much needed now)

However, the more Thailand plunges in regards to tourism and the overall economy, plus the more instability created, all greatly benefits the man calling on the big red telephone... Thus, despite public promises of a peaceful red-rally, there remains some cause for concern (especially given the 'happy Thai new year' welcome wrought last time by the reds- at Mr Thaksin's desperate urgings). Also, the 'sweepstakes' to return Mr Thaksin to power is enhanced by the fast approaching court date on July 16 to confiscate his frozen 76 billion baht...

Meanwhile, it appears the Dem led Govt has had to play both leader AND opposition to prevent Mr Newin's Bhumjai from sucking the marrow from public coffers via every 'scheme' from buses, to crop bids, to ICT shenanigans and on and on... Basically Mr Newin's style is almost a mirror-image of his former (?) colleague Mr Thaksin (stated 'former?' as opportunists can always switch back at a drop of a baht in Thai politics).

Thus the Dems are extremely unwanted by those who feel threatened by all the Dems 'silly' transparency demands. Rather, they seek to protect and serve a 'hard-earned' (and very rewarding system) of corruption, collusion and intimidation.

Ultimately, Thailand has to change of course but with everyone from Mr Newin to Mr Thaksin to local mafia type true 'elite' families controlling most regions, plus much of the police and some factions in the military unwilling, the Dems have a seemingly impossible task ahead.

Still, one wishes PM Abhisit good wisdom and good luck - he will require much, of both.

Red, yellow, blue, or hues, personally fed up with the lot.

(at least with BBC's Jonathan Head rumoured to be transferred to Turkey, one won't have to watch Mr Thaksin's mini-me Jakrapob urging reds to 'take' Bangkok in another 'exclusive', seemingly harmonious interview from JH's CBD balcony...)

B & S, very good post.

I wish more understood things as clearly as you seem to.

Stability is for the benefit of all,

and transparency is for the benefit of the many.

Even if an avaricious minority loses relatively.

Freedom would be ringing in a new era,

sans vulture politicians raping the people's coffers in plain sight,

while telling them it is all for their own good no less.

Shameless.

Edited June 25, 2009 by animatic

[RugbyRugbyRugby]

Thailand needs to have democracy restored ! and cannot afford to be run like a communist state !

[justanothercybertosser]

Indeed, the yellow shirts did the above,

But plain violence, including killing, not.

Yes, they did.

Narongsak, 50 something years old, at Sept. 2nd, 2008.

A man who who walked past police and was killed by PAD guards behind the Metropolitan Police Headquarters.

One corpse was found in a plastic bag after the handed over Don Muang, the time of death was during the occupation.

And many people who were shot and injured by PAD guards.

[justanothercybertosser]

Ultimately, Thailand has to change of course but with everyone from Mr Newin to Mr Thaksin to local mafia type true 'elite' families controlling most regions, plus much of the police and some factions in the military unwilling, the Dems have a seemingly impossible task ahead.

I think you do forget a few in that list. Such as Suthep, a local Mafia type who is Dept. Prime Minister, and presently the most powerful man in the Democrat Party.

[HagenvonTronje]

16 companies of soldiers asked to help control the UDD rally on June 27

BANGKOK, 25 June 2009 (NNT) - Police in the Metropolitan Police Bureau (MPB) are prepared to handle the rally of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on June 27, while 16 companies of military officers will help control the situation.

Metropolitan Police Chief, Police Lieutenant General Worapong Chiewpreecha, stated that the MPB had prepared the operation to cope with the UDD major rally this Saturday. To handle the situation, he indicated that the MPB had asked 16 companies of soldiers to help control the possible blockage of the Government by demonstrators.

Pol. Lt. Gen. Worapong added that the police had been monitoring the movements of the group in order to cope with the rally this Saturday.

-- NNT 25 June 2009

article here

[Plus]

Nothing more annoying than foreign journalists

Yes, their ignronace, pre-cooked stories, and supreme air of confidence are indeed annoying.

[jumnien]

Nothing more annoying than foreign journalists

Yes, their ignronace, pre-cooked stories, and supreme air of confidence are indeed annoying.

Your edits of the original post reveal your maniacal biases... Sad, really. The junta and its aftermath really need no celebration.

[Plus]

I think you implied that foreign journalists have a god goven ability to deliver the final judgement on Thai political development, so I commented on that.

The part about junta and mafia needs no comments at all. Been done to death already.

[JacknDanny]

Well heres hoping that it p!sses it down on Saturday, and those idiotic red shirted sheep get a good drenching

They are just an illiterate bunch of rabble rousers with not a brain cell between them.

Bunch of Lemmings.

[Plus]

The Nation

Academics claim "the elite, the military and wealthy people" are to blame for the slow progress of Thailand's democratic development.

Speaking at a panel discussion on the country's political progress to mark the 77th anniversary of constitutional monarchy, they agreed that negative behaviour by people from those groups had caused Thai democracy to go nowhere.

The event, entitled "Thailand's Political Development: From King Prajadhipok to the Age of Reform", was held at Parliament yesterday. Audience members included 200 high-school students from Bangkok.

Thongchai Wongchaisuwan, dean of Ubon Ratchathani University's Faculty of Political Science, said Thailand's elite, particularly the wealthy and the privileged, tended not to respect the law. He said they often bought their way out of legal troubles and that state officials were negligent in taking action against them.

"Business people and merchants are familiar with bribing and they avoid paying taxes. That led to the need for value added tax, in which rich and poor people are taxed at an equal rate. Is that fair?" said the dean.

Thanet Abhornsuwan, dean of Thammasat University's Faculty of Liberal Arts, said the main obstacle to progress in Thai politics over the past 77 years was the elite groups involved, including the military and the bureaucrats.

He was not convinced vote buying was to blame for the slow progress in Thailand's democracy. He believed that was an attempt to pass the blame on to poorer people.

He also did not believe that poor education was a major obstacle. "Education does not guarantee democratic development," he said.

Parinya Thewanarumitkul, law lecturer at Thammasat University, said failure in Thai democracy might be due to the fact that "we have no real faith in democracy."

He said that as long as the concept of "rule by the people" did not materialise, Thai democracy would be dominated by politicians.

"The military could stage a coup because they simply seized the power from politicians, and not from the people," he said.

>>>

That is why the goal of the red movement is return 76 billion to Thaksin and give amnesty to all vote buying politicians, and don't harp much about education.

Way to go, red democracy!

[baht&sold]

Ultimately, Thailand has to change of course but with everyone from Mr Newin to Mr Thaksin to local mafia type true 'elite' families controlling most regions, plus much of the police and some factions in the military unwilling, the Dems have a seemingly impossible task ahead.

I think you do forget a few in that list. Such as Suthep, a local Mafia type who is Dept. Prime Minister, and presently the most powerful man in the Democrat Party.

Agree completely with jac tosser on the above - as does the Dem party leaders it seems:

Democrat chief advisers Chuan Leekpai, Banyat Bantadtan, Suthas Ngernmuen, and even Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva are reportedly upset with government manager Suthep Thaugsuban, who is deputy prime minister and party secretary-general. "The leaders disagree with all that Suthep has done. He gives coalition allies too many concessions," the source said. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/06/19...cs_30105558.php

Suthep - yes, toss him, full stop.

However, a chain-reaction would also likely occur:

Newin & Bhumjai not being able to milk the public coffers would probably slither back across the aisle to PM in waiting Chalerm & his square-faced boss-

"Chalerm said if he is in the position to do so, he will amend the law in order to bring Thaksin back"

- For the people of Thailand this would result in having EVERY Minister with nose in trough, not just Newin's Bhumjai (Thailand gets the Govt it deserves?)

- For some on TV there will be elation as apparently the pound then 'magically' goes back to 70, the beer becomes cheaper and colder, the girls same but warmer, etc, etc

(Walter Mitty's all smiles;)

Edited June 26, 2009 by baht&sold

[Plus]

In current politics people like Suthep are indispensable, he is a bridge that holds together the majority coalition of thieving bastards under Democrat control.

So far Dems interrupted three high profile money milking schemes by Newin and Co.

[justanothercybertosser]

Ultimately, Thailand has to change of course but with everyone from Mr Newin to Mr Thaksin to local mafia type true 'elite' families controlling most regions, plus much of the police and some factions in the military unwilling, the Dems have a seemingly impossible task ahead.

I think you do forget a few in that list. Such as Suthep, a local Mafia type who is Dept. Prime Minister, and presently the most powerful man in the Democrat Party.

Agree completely with jac tosser on the above - as does the Dem party leaders it seems:

Democrat chief advisers Chuan Leekpai, Banyat Bantadtan, Suthas Ngernmuen, and even Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva are reportedly upset with government manager Suthep Thaugsuban, who is deputy prime minister and party secretary-general. "The leaders disagree with all that Suthep has done. He gives coalition allies too many concessions," the source said. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/06/19...cs_30105558.php

Suthep - yes, toss him, full stop.

However, a chain-reaction would also likely occur:

Newin & Bhumjai not being able to milk the public coffers would probably slither back across the aisle to PM in waiting Chalerm & his square-faced boss-

"Chalerm said if he is in the position to do so, he will amend the law in order to bring Thaksin back"

- For the people of Thailand this would result in having EVERY Minister with nose in trough, not just Newin's Bhumjai (Thailand gets the Govt it deserves?)

- For some on TV there will be elation as apparently the pound then 'magically' goes back to 70, the beer becomes cheaper and colder, the girls same but warmer, etc, etc

(Walter Mitty's all smiles;)

No political party is able to toss those sort of politicians, and they know it well. The only difference with the Democrats and other parties is that they can obfuscate ugly realities better than others - putting acceptable faces who have no power up front, while they real power brokers are not just as dirty as the rest, but completely ineffectual. The dems should not/cannot be judged by the massively overstated reputation of the likes of Abhsit and Korn.

It is an exaggeration that under TRT/PPP/PTP 'every' minister would be on the take that badly. Under the present government the most important ministry - the Ministry of Interior - had to be ceded to Newin, arguably the most dirty of the bunch. There he is in a perfect situation to influence the most important sectors of Thai politics - the village, subdistrict and district levels. Under Thaksin he had not that much power.

If this idiocy continues, we might one day see people like Newin or Chalerm as Prime Minister. Compared to them - i would have preferred a Thaksin that has those under some sort of control. Abhisit cannot control them, because he has neither the skill nor the power to control them. He can't even control his own party.

What you read in the article above is all rhetorics - if Suthep goes - the coalition goes, and the government goes as well. Until the Dems learn how to formulate policies and communicate them as well to the people in Isaarn and the North instead of talking a lot and doing nothing, they will stay completely ineffectual. And they are at least a decade away from doing that.

[Meridian007]

If there could be internationally recognized elections, (maybe election monitoring groups from countries that won't be swayed by their own hidden agendas? Finland? Sweden?), resulting in a PM that is allowed to stay in power (with international support) for at least a year, there might be a chance. There needs to be a leader in power for a while, so that the idea of coup stops being commonplace (oh, its Monday? Time to topple the government again!), and so that there is a chance for legal and military reform.

What reform?

Are you under illusion that those greedy bastards at the top are not supported by the population? Are you under illusion that if there was no vote buying then some real reformists will emerge as leaders?

This topic is about reds, whose goal is to bring back Thaksin and give him back what he stole from the country, and they believe it will be good for democracy.

He already had his chance at "reform" - stuffing all the top positions with his cronies and relatives and stealing on an unprecedented scale. At the moment all regional bosses in red party are Thaksin's relatives, as he doesn't trust anyone else.

The only group that wants a meaningful reform is PAD - they want to completely redraw the political scene and separate politics from big money, but who will listen to them? Certainly not red "democrats".

Plus, I think you misunderstand me.

I think we both agree that even if the protesters believe that they are fighting for democracy and the rights of the poor, they are really just the strong arm of Thaksin, who is getting more and more worried as that July 16 deadline approaches, as well as hoping that he can come back to power. (as well, he has demonstrated that he wishes to have absolute power, that was clearly what he was working towards when he was PM) I'm sure he would love to return to a position where he could do whatever he wanted to line his pockets while throwing some small scraps to those who have fought for him.

He obviously has no real interest in the needs of the people who support him, which is why I think it is sad that they continue to support him. If they dropped him and separated themselves from him and his cronies, I think they would more clearly be seen as the neo-socialist alternative, and they would then get the grassroots support they seek. This is where the people of the reds confuse me, they have almost opposite ideological goals from their leaders.

The PAD are no less mired in "behind-the-scenes" ulterior motives, but theirs are more dangerous to discuss.They also have plans to reform, but their reform is a reduction of elected positions, moving back to a system of power within a group of appointed officials. Not very democratic, huh? I think the protesters for this group believe themselves to be a "reform by intellectuals", moving towards a more intelligent democracy, but those behind the scenes here are just trying to make sure they will still have some power when a deficient offspring attempts for the reins. There is also a strong military backing here who have their own agenda, I'm sure they would love to return things to the way they were a decade or so ago.

Both sides seem to have these great altruistic motives and idealism, but the more one reads and hears about those who are pulling the strings (talk to some Thai people, especially those within the universities, you'll learn some amazing things), the more one realizes that neither of these groups will make any real change. In fact, I think both will move Thailand away from democracy more than it is now. There are so many factions within factions that you really have to pull back multiple layers to see what power is truly being fought for here.

If both sides removed the leaders who are inextricably tied to these "big people", and focused on the policies that they want advanced, their movements would become more genuine and acceptable to the rest of the population. The problem is, there is a tendency to throw support behind a powerful, charismatic person because even if they don't support your goals fully, they are seen as the only ones who can secure your group's position.

I don't think this is a battle of removing big business from politics, both sides have this as the engine within their movements. This is a power game at the highest levels, winner takes all.

[Plus]

If this idiocy continues, we might one day see people like Newin or Chalerm as Prime Minister. Compared to them - i would have preferred a Thaksin

Does it mean you are proposing to bring Thaksin back, for the sake of controlling Newin and Chalerm, since neither Dems nor PTP can control them?

>>>

And just how Thaksin's control over Interior is better than Newin's? Do you mean to say that Thaksin had never let his govt to control "the village, subdistrict and district levels"???

Until the Dems learn how to formulate policies and communicate them as well to the people in Isaarn and the North instead of talking a lot and doing nothing, they will stay completely ineffectual

They can formulate policies and communicate to the rest of the coutnry pretty well, beating PPP in the national policies ballots last time.

It's Isanese fixation with Thaksin that neither the coupmakers, nor Dems nor Newin have been able to break, and I don't see it as a problem with policies. Policies are fine and they work everywhere else.

By extention - I wonder how much strength the red movement derives from its dedication to Thaksin comparing to reason and belief in democracy. I think it's a personality cult more than anything else.

[Plus]

The PAD are no less mired in "behind-the-scenes" ulterior motives, but theirs are more dangerous to discuss.They also have plans to reform, but their reform is a reduction of elected positions, moving back to a system of power within a group of appointed officials.

That's what reds tell you.

The new politics proposal is to let representatives of professional/social groups a guaranteed place in parliament.

Geographical consituency based representation has been corrupted beyond repair, especially upcountry, where local feudal lords rule with absolute impunity and keep the population in line by all means necessary, it's them who send their repesentatives to parliament, not the people.

Profession based constituency is a rather fresh idea, excluding those feudals altogether.

What the opponents get fixated on is the system of getting those representatives into parliament.

It's not important HOW representatives get to power, it's important that they DO get the power, one way or another.

People argue that appointing them is undemocratic, but it's the easiest to implement solution in the short term, before those professional/social constituencies develop their own, internal election systems. The country needs to start with something.

It is also a fresh idea because it looks at the country not just as a collection of 76 provinces, but as consisting of various industries, social and religious groups that need to have a voice in how the country is governed.

[Meridian007]

The new politics proposal is to let representatives of professional/social groups a guaranteed place in parliament.

Okay, perhaps I should have said representational democracy. While an occupational constituency group in parliament is an interesting idea, it will merely lead to the replacement of one type of "feudal lord" for another. It seems to give a carte blanche to any group rich enough to buy their way into those positions, or, is a way for one group to ensure proper succession when the time comes. Neither does much for the voice of the people, but continues the idea of the Pu Yai dictating what will happen.

It's not important HOW representatives get to power, it's important that they DO get the power, one way or another.

Are you sure? I think history tells us otherwise. I think it is important to know WHO will get the power, and WHAT they will do with it, the HOW is the cornerstone of their legitimacy, without it, they can do nothing. I think that a group,

consisting of various industries, social and religious groups that need to have a voice in how the country is governed.

is a great idea, but not with direct power in parliament. As an advising committee, sure, but appointed positions have been even more abused throughout history (in Thailand as well) than the sorry state of elected positions in this country.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Thaksin (hate is a strong word for me to use, but I believe it is appropriate in this case) and what he and his proxies are doing in this country, but I think the PAD has become merely reactionary and has assisted in the destabilizing of this country just as much as the reds. I also believe the military must love both groups, as they are paving the way back to military rule.

Parliamentary (including electoral and representational systems) reform? Legal/constitutional reform? Removal of corporate, "big money", and military influence on politics? A well-defined and transparent power structure?

Yes please to all of these, but I don't think there is a party or movement that can currently provide any of this. The "old boys" network must be removed before any of it is possible.

I agree that the country needs to start somewhere, but I think that somewhere is a change in the current legal and courts system, (there needs to be some accountability), and a legitimization of the government through uncontestable election results. Only then will a leader be able to make changes that are in line with party policy, and expect them to be followed without this currying of favour that is so rampant here because of a constant fear of governmental collapse.

Don't fool yourself, this country is very close to becoming a failed state. It scares the hel_l out of me, and makes me wish I was a citizen here so that my opinion would matter in some minuscule way.

*********Edited for clarity*********

Edited June 26, 2009 by Meridian007

[nitecm]

It goes on and on because the present government really does not have a mandate.

Nope that's not it.

If the Democrats called an election tomorrow and won with a landslide, there would still be reds taking to the streets.

Don't be fooled into thinking this is a group brought together by a collective belief in certain upstanding political values and principles; rather it's a group bought together by one rich man and his few remaining friends of power, who having messed the country up and been kicked out, want the chance to come back, be whitewashed of all charges against them, and able to dip their snouts back in the trough for another feeding.

Everyone claimed that he is right . Only The one in power can claim that he is right.

[baht&sold]

Geographical consituency based representation has been corrupted beyond repair, especially upcountry, where local feudal lords rule with absolute impunity and keep the population in line by all means necessary, it's them who send their repesentatives to parliament, not the people.

Profession based constituency is a rather fresh idea, excluding those feudals altogether.

What the opponents get fixated on is the system of getting those representatives into parliament.

It's not important HOW representatives get to power, it's important that they DO get the power, one way or another.

People argue that appointing them is undemocratic, but it's the easiest to implement solution in the short term, before those professional/social constituencies develop their own, internal election systems. The country needs to start with something.

It is also a fresh idea because it looks at the country not just as a collection of 76 provinces, but as consisting of various industries, social and religious groups that need to have a voice in how the country is governed.

Personally, I don't agree with 'appointing' representatives to parliament.

Sure, most of the representatives are only representing a proxy, starting from whomever the local influential family/business people have made a deal with up the back-handing food-chain. However, I'd rather see Thailand go through successive Thaksin/proxy govt's whom pretend to back democracy whilst destroying the very intent and meaning of it, taking over every watch-dog, loading team-cronies on every board, mooting the press, and lining theirs and cronies pockets all the way.

One day the debt-ridden farmers may suddenly wake up to the sham and say 'Hey, why is it we're always get shafted but everyone from the local rice-mill owner to the pu yai, to the local police chief, to the rice-barons, to the politicians, always reap a fortune?' This goes for pretty much every aspect of life in Thailand. Until the people in the fields and the streets 'get' this, unfortunately they deserve the Govt they get- over and over and over, until they really do GET it.

Thais just have to learn to be wary of self-serving square-faced men bearing dissolving and decaying gifts, no matter how long it takes.

Sorry, but NO to appointed representatives.

[rixalex]

He obviously has no real interest in the needs of the people who support him, which is why I think it is sad that they continue to support him. If they dropped him and separated themselves from him and his cronies, I think they would more clearly be seen as the neo-socialist alternative, and they would then get the grassroots support they seek. This is where the people of the reds confuse me, they have almost opposite ideological goals from their leaders.

Agree with most of your post Meridian, and especially the bit above. I've said many times that were the reds to completely disassociate themselves from this convicted criminal and stop fighting his battles, overnight their credibility would soar. As it is, how can they seriously be talking about any belief in democracy, of free and fair elections, of a government that cares about the working classes, when the next minute they are talking about changing laws to bring back a man who did nothing during his time in power to further any of those causes.

The sad truth is the reds and Thaksin can and never will be separated. They are inextricably linked for two main reasons. One is that he provides the driving force, both financial and otherwise. Two is that for the majority of reds he remains a hero. Sad but true.