Schools Checking Up On Qualifications?

[Jessy]

How many people themselves (or a known friend) have experienced a school etc. checking up on their qualifications when they have applied for a job?? And if people have experienced this, has the school checked up on both the degree and the TEFL or just one of the two??

[Ijustwannateach]

My current school checks out everything as it is to be submitted to the MOE, possibly more strictly than the MOE itself; I believe one or more foreign workers are also consulted regarding prospective hires (a desirable habit, as the Thais often don't have the background to judge, but only if you choose the right foreigners to begin with).

Many schools that I know of don't give a d***, but none of them are worth working at.

The most recent silliness was more over the issue of actual education degrees, which of course almost none of us here in Thailand actually have- a mixed blessing, in its way.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Any document you present to the school, the MoE or the MoL or to Immigration, had better be authentic, or else you risk losing your job, and your stay in Thailand. You might even lose face!

[PaleRider]

After having worked at the same school via an agency for nearly 1 year, I was asked to provide a certification for my Degree from the Univercity in England where it was acheived, as were the other foreign teachers at the school.

They even gave a very strict deadline that they needed this paperwork by, something like 1 week max.

In typically Thai style nobody from the school actually followed up though, some teachers produced the documentation and some did not and nothing more was mentioned about it.

P-Rider

[bulmercke]

Any document you present to the school, the MoE or the MoL or to Immigration, had better be authentic, or else you risk losing your job, and your stay in Thailand. You might even lose face!

Yeah. Right.

[Scott]

Where I work, one of my jobs is to check on the degrees that people have. I usually send an email to the registrar of the school to authenticate them.

Prior to the present shakeup, the authenticity of a degree was checked if there was reason to believe that it was fake, such as the person failed to demonstrate either knowledge or ability in the given field. Also, periodically, people would present degrees such as an MA or Ph.D. which were not authentic (although undergraduate degrees were authentic).

In the case of fake degrees (undergraduate--and therefore unqualified at this school), the person was discharged. Since the same degree had worked at other schools, the administration chose not to pursue what happened after they left. In short it wasn't reported.

In the case of people with authentic undergraduate degrees but fake upper level degrees, their salary was cut to the level for undergraduate degree holders, they were allowed to work through their contract period and new contracts were not offered to them.

Now, however, if there is no authentication of the degree, they would not be hired and would be out the door immediately.

[Briggsy]

At a well-known international school, a degree was returned by the MoE as not acceptable. The English lady who had scored this fake degree on Khao San was told by the lady at the school who deals with WPs etc to resubmit another degree. To the unbiased observer, the morale appears to be "If you're going to submit a fake, then make sure it's a good one!"

[Scott]

The lady who deals with WP is a secretary of sorts. She is not in a position to hire people.

[helicoptor]

How many people themselves (or a known friend) have experienced a school etc. checking up on their qualifications when they have applied for a job?? And if people have experienced this, has the school checked up on both the degree and the TEFL or just one of the two??

Interesting post - let me guess - you are an unqualified Teacher right?

[Rhys]

Hmmm... Generally, if you know a key person, the dude or dudess, who recruited you... your qualifications and creditials are a non-factor... it is their FACE as well, that will be tarnished... As for others, a general comment: IT all depends...TIT..

[aussiestyle1983]

At my school there is a secret underground room "like a bomb shelter" for all of the non-work permit holders to hide in when immigration or whoever turns up. The school is heavily gated and armed with security who have plenty of time to press the "panic" button before opening the gates to let the guests in. Also, the staff picture board is changed so that only the pictures of the legal teachers are visible. Usually it takes no more than two mins for all the illegale teachers to get into the secret room, which is impossible to find (there is a blue light above the doors in each classroom that starts flashing for 55 seconds when the panic button is pressed, and every where else a teacher might be there is also the same feature. This is how the teachers know when to run). If any one does not make it into this room because they were in the wrong place, they have to deal with their own problems. After the guests leave, the teachers come out of the secret room and are all transported home in a school van, where they have to wait for 2 full days before returning to school. Our school has used this method for several years now (before I started working there) and not one illegale teacher has ever been busted. This is actually a quite sad process, but it is done only to protect the school and the illegale teachers. This school has thought of everything, eg: (there is only one way in and out of the school, the driveway is so long and has so many large speed bumps it takes at least 2 mins to drive up to the main gate, the gate opens so slowly, etc) and all of the parents think this is to protect the students! Hahaha.

Myself and the other legale teachers just sit in the office or continue doing what ever we were doing while the guests walk around the school. Sometimes I wonder if the illegales made it into the secret room or not.................

Once again, a sad process and another way my school is and has been dealing with this (we get visits from un-wanted guests approx every 3 months)

[mopenyang]

"Sad" doesn't begin to describe it.

[PeaceBlondie]

aussiestyle's post doesn't have any 'tongue in cheek' emoticon, so we don't know if he's pulling our leg. But it has been widely reported that last week, the illegal teachers hid up on the roof! ...I wonder if they listened to that old pop song, "Up on the Roof."

[aussiestyle1983]

aussiestyle's post doesn't have any 'tongue in cheek' emoticon, so we don't know if he's pulling our leg. But it has been widely reported that last week, the illegal teachers hid up on the roof! ...I wonder if they listened to that old pop song, "Up on the Roof."

Is that the song by "The Drifters?"

That song is in one of the lame course books that the language school I work at on the weekend uses. The students always say "teacher, can we skip this song" and I dont blame them...................

[Bottlerocket]

This is from TEFL Watch

The new requirements vary slightly, depending on who is reporting them, but they basically boil down to these requirements:

Teachers who started at a school before 12th June 2003 must show:

1. School contract, work permit and letter from their school

2. A 4 year degree in Education or any 4 year degree and have completed a 1 year course in an Educational field.

3. Passports and visas

4. Photograph

Teachers who started employment after 12th June 2003 must show:

1. School contract, work permit and letter from their school

2. Passport and visa

3. A 4 year degree in Education or any 4 year degree and have completed a 1 year course in an Educational field.

4. Photos

5. Proof of Teaching Certification in their home country

6. Proof of 1 year of teaching experience in their home country

7. Pass an exam on Thai language and culturee

8. Pay 500 baht

Here's a link: http://www.teflnews.net/44/upcoming-change...iland/#comments

[Ijustwannateach]

If they enforce the regulations as you've just listed, Thai schools will be empty of foreigners within a year.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

The laundry list of wishful thinking, that Bottlerocket has quoted from teflwatch, is not exactly official, is it? I mean, they're not really going to do that all over Thailand for three years running, are they? Of course not. But meanwhile, some good teachers will lose their jobs; many will simply leave; and then we'll discover that actually, really, they weren't serious about that.

[Bottlerocket]

You're probably right. However, they seem to be acting with an unprecedented zeal and determination. I guess we'll have to see how long that surge will last.

[makavelithedon]

"3. A 4 year degree in Education or any 4 year degree and have completed a 1 year course in an Educational field." Quote

If this ends up strictly enforced the only teachers who'll remain here will be Internationals and some University placements. The 4 year bits bad enough, but the educational 1 year card is an absolute killer!

Another shambolic mess on the cards if it isn't already!

Edited January 24, 2007 by makavelithedon

[andyadam]

A BEd teacher with a few years in the job can be earning around 200,000 Baht a month in the UK, why in the word would any of them work in Thailand for 40,000 a month!!!!!

While I agree with the background checks for the protection of the kids it's still not 100% but as I have read so many times, holding a BEd degree does not mean you have the ABILITY to teach. I was married to a teacher who could teach but she also worked with a few that had no idea.

As a non-teacher, I believe that teachers are born, not trained. It takes a certain type of person to do the job, degree or no degree!!

[Napfbrother]

My current school checks out everything as it is to be submitted to the MOE, possibly more strictly than the MOE itself; I believe one or more foreign workers are also consulted regarding prospective hires (a desirable habit, as the Thais often don't have the background to judge, but only if you choose the right foreigners to begin with).

Many schools that I know of don't give a d***, but none of them are worth working at.

The most recent silliness was more over the issue of actual education degrees, which of course almost none of us here in Thailand actually have- a mixed blessing, in its way.

"Steven"

Here we go again, one rule for Thais and another rule for Farangs. Thai people which

"collected" a degree from any university in Thailand, don't understand a bloody word

of English, even though the degree or even PHD says the should.

What is the differnce if they buy their certificates from their schools and farngs buys

the certificates in KhaoSan road?

Sorry but both are fake but the Thais get away with it, Farang does not? That's what

I would call rassism and bloody rude!

[Ijustwannateach]

We've gotten a bit off-track and off-topic here. This thread, as I look back at the topic, is about whether schools are checking on qualifications these days, and how. Please keep posts on topic. There is a rather long and busy thread about fake degrees and raids near the top of the thread list; please make your comments on fake degrees there.

"Steven"

[Casanundra]

I'm not a teacher here but before this crack down was introduced which seems to be aimed predominantly at the teachers out there, I was asked to provide full copies of original certificates of all of my degrees plus transcripts, plus notorised copies of the originals, plus a medical cert, plus police records and two reference letters from former employers PLUS I also had to do the usual 6 months probation period as well.

Only then was I allowed to keep my job and stay in the position I am now in.

Now I am not saying that the new crack down on the teaching fraternity is right or wrong and I am not going to judge anyone who is here with fake credentials or othewise because personally I believe that the requirements for a BEd or MEd to teach English in Thailand is a complete farce when compared to the reality on the ground and to how the schools treat you and compensate you etc... not to mention the arguments about a degree making someone a better teacher or not, but I do also believe that some of the dross should be filtered out too as unfortunately they drag down the rest of us with them.

I did a presentation today on Plagiarism and in my presentation I wrote the words 'a lie will always be a lie, a cheat will always be a cheat' with a verbal comment along the lines of 'even when it is done to save face, so don't do it'.

The same rule should also apply to all teachers here in LOS.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Casanundra

[mopenyang]

Looks like they are getting serious in Pattaya:

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_26_01_50.htm

[PeaceBlondie]

Looks like they are getting serious in Pattaya:

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_26_01_50.htm

Thanks, mopenyang, for that new link to a meeting held by the local Immigration Police chief in Pattaya. It said that he spoke to "Delegates from 30 private schools in the area and two Universities." I did not realize the Pattaya area had so many private schools, but it's a huge place. No government schools attended, however.

It looks as if only the lead paragraph of the news article is included. What did the police colonel tell the delegates from the schools? It says, "Each school and University will now be required to make thorough checks into qualifications for each foreign teacher application in conjunction with the Immigration Office." Good, colonel; great. But how, exactly and precisely and pedantically - HOW? And what are the qualifications in the first place?

[Ijustwannateach]

Sounds to me more like the ol' "smoke-filled room....":

"Ok, boys, we've had too many bad reports off the street of these troublesome backpacker types what we've been cleaning up on in bribes from those clueless parents... we've got to make sure we stay low for awhile and the media stay off our backs. So if anyone asks about qualifications, this is what we want you to say... "

[PeaceBlondie]

Oh, c'mon now Steven, he's a Police Colonel. He is an authority in these matters. He would have given them all the particulars, such as "Here are the typical degree diploma formats used by most of the universities in Ireland, except of course in Belfast, some of which use Gaelic or Old Irish. Then the Romanian diplomas use a little Latin, except the diplomas from Transylvania, which are in old German. Then there's New Zealand (you know, those cute little kiwis that aren't fruits); and 50 states and several territories of the USA, where a college is a university; provinces of Canada; states of Australia (you know, those cute kangaroos, that jump). They don't use Thai time; quite the opposite. You have to use email and the internet and international dialing and standard English (better than Shinawatra spoke), and the transcripts have to be sealed and embossed, except sometimes, and you can't get transcripts from some old Brits, so I guess you cannot employ them; and don't employ those smelly backpackers with body piercings and tatoos; but Filipinas, that's different....now, surely you don't have any questions about this, do you? Fine; meeting is over; and don't forget tea money."

[mopenyang]

I'm hearing the word going around is that Immigration will be requiring more evidence (transcripts, etc.) in support of any claimed degree at time of renewal or new application.

Not confirmed but that is the talk among teachers following the meeting.

Does anyone have any additional information?

[Ijustwannateach]

^There's already a thread started on this by our dear friend Susan Richardson. No one has come forward with any confirmed sightings of this requirement (it's almost like bird watching!!)

[mopenyang]

Looks like Pattaya Immigration could be a good place to set up a bird watching station:

http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?F...;IdArticle=4122