January 16, 200818 yr It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried. Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965) When it comes to government there is no real Democracy, just an illusion of choice. Jared Diamond coined the phrase Kleptocracy to give the system we live under it's real name. I'm sure you can work it out Moss, how about a pint or three?
January 16, 200818 yr Well, can you, buggered if I can.Moss There are many forms of Democracy.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Forms_of_democracy I'm not sure if there is a description for Thai Democracy though; maybe it's time to invent it or name it.....? Anyone ? LaoPo
January 16, 200818 yr Well, can you, buggered if I can.Moss There are many forms of Democracy.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Forms_of_democracy I'm not sure if there is a description for Thai Democracy though; maybe it's time to invent it or name it.....? Anyone ? LaoPo A comprehensive link LaoPo, thanks.
January 17, 200818 yr Another from dear old Winnie (from Lao Pao's link):- The strongest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter. -Sir Winston Churchill In the west democracy seems these days to mean the unalienable right to freely vote for whatever party a person chooses and then exercise the equally unalienable right to decline to vote because all politicians are <deleted>. This is then followed by four or five years of freedom to whinge about the cr@p government and how "I didn't vote for them". As Robski says democracy is merely the illusion of freedom. That illusion being reinforced by the principal that any citizen can, theoretically, stand for election and, if successful, take their place in government. In reality, in the UK at least, the chances of any candidate not affiliated to one of the three main parties getting elected are the same as winning the national lottery. For the few "independant" members of parliament who do get elected their victory is meaningless as they are mere lone voices in the crowd unless they get in at a time of a hung parliament (no overall majority). I put independant in " " as, AFAIK, all the independants elected to the UK parliament are renegade ex members of one of the three parties who have strong personal support from their constituencies.
January 17, 200818 yr I couldn't agree more. It works for some but not all. I think we must also be very careful not to confuse 'democracy' with 'freedom'. I have quoted this before, but I think its relevant and one of the most salient things he ever said. "Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned....Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress." - Thaksin Shinawatra
January 17, 200818 yr I couldn't agree more. It works for some but not all. I think we must also be very careful not to confuse 'democracy' with 'freedom'. I have quoted this before, but I think its relevant and one of the most salient things he ever said. "Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned....Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress." - Thaksin Shinawatra Read b/w the lines and this statement comes accross a little more like this: I am your father, you may have your say, however, my decision is final. If you are good, you may have a little pocket money, however all wealth generated belongs to & is at the disposal of the father.
January 17, 200818 yr Notwithstanding all the above, to which I agree mostly, democracy is still preferable to any other form of government. Sharia comes to mind. cheers onzestan
January 17, 200818 yr "democracy! Can you explain it's meaning?" Heck yeah.... Oo-errr Missus.. Actually, I cannae at all. It's a farce. Churchill's quote is perhaps the most famous quote relating to Democracy, but what Phil (Harries) elaborates upon is perhaps more succinct. Personally speaking - and perhaps I'm being simplistic; yet perhaps not; anybody who's seen the series of series entitled, "Yes, Minister!" and thereafter "Yes, Prime Minister" will have an in depth understanding of how the gov't actually works... The democratically elected gov't. If you haven't yet seen this show from the 80's it can be found on mininove, piratebay, and I'm sure a host of other torrent sites. T'is well worth it.
January 17, 200818 yr I know one....but shhhhh....you cannot get in unless you get the wink wink from someone on the inside.
January 17, 200818 yr Democracy: government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system. That sounds about right. That said, "the people" can be awfully stupid, greedy, short sighted, delusional, selfish, mean spirited, etc.
January 17, 200818 yr I lived under an absolute ruler once in Abu Dhabi...his name was Sheik Zayed. His people were happy...he musta been doin' sumin' right... democracy is another filthy western concept foisted upon the rest of the world by the likes of George Bush...quite simply, an excuse to use western brutality to further western interests...
January 17, 200818 yr Democracy has been hijacked, it's meaning has been basterdised and it has been repackaged in different sizes to help make countries and their citizens, new to the idea, more willing to accept it.
January 17, 200818 yr Author I know one....but shhhhh....you cannot get in unless you get the wink wink from someone on the inside. I take it you haven't been there recently then? Moss
January 17, 200818 yr Author In the Greek polis the meaning of the term “democracy” implied the government of a vast majority of the people, the “plebs”, as opposed to the aristocracy. In modern politics the word signifies that the entirety of the population, made up of free and equal individuals, is the source of sovereignty, even though the population does not rule directly but rather through a free mandate.Democracy is therefore the common creation, through a contract or through another emblem of the constitutional power of the people, of the legislator (the Parliament), that along with the law, gives consistency to the natural rights of individuals, giving them the status of citizens. Historically, democracy is born in Europe with the French revolution and in the United Stated with the independence from colonial England. In the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, also through warfare, struggles and regressions, democracy is established both on a political level, through universal suffrage -which represents the formal political requisite for a democratic state-, and on a social one; the Social State of the second half of the twentieth century is in fact an attempt to drive the economic and technical dynamics that had activated Europe to follow the logic of political equality, rather than letting them create strong power inequalities inside society. Full article Moss
January 17, 200818 yr I know one....but shhhhh....you cannot get in unless you get the wink wink from someone on the inside. I take it you haven't been there recently then? Moss You know how many comedians there are out of work around the world ?? and you trying to be one !!!!
January 17, 200818 yr let's illustrate...to use a film analogy let's take Ozu's 'Tokyo Story' to see the sadness of western democracy applied to a tradional society...let's take 'Jean de Florette' to illustrate the evil of a society based upon 'choice'... the story telling concepts are well known...very traditional but enduring...
January 17, 200818 yr let's illustrate...to use a film analogy let's take Ozu's 'Tokyo Story' to see the sadness of western democracy applied to a tradional society...let's take 'Jean de Florette' to illustrate the evil of a society based upon 'choice'...the story telling concepts are well known...very traditional but enduring... Hands up those who have seen, nay strike that, those who have even heard of that movie Your going to have to fill me in on the plot there Tutsi
January 17, 200818 yr Democracy Two wolves and a sheep voting whats for dinner. Mob rule Woodrow Wilson brought the word into presidential use in the US, as up into that time the nation was taught that democracy was the worst form of gov't.
January 17, 200818 yr let's illustrate...to use a film analogy let's take Ozu's 'Tokyo Story' to see the sadness of western democracy applied to a tradional society...let's take 'Jean de Florette' to illustrate the evil of a society based upon 'choice'...the story telling concepts are well known...very traditional but enduring... Hands up those who have seen, nay strike that, those who have even heard of that movie Your going to have to fill me in on the plot there Tutsi tutsi is a snob and often talks about films that no one has seen...just like great literature great films exhibit the best that story telling has to offer... (there is also a google button at the top of the page...) no disrespect intended...
January 17, 200818 yr Author I'm sure you can work it out Moss, how about a pint or three? I'll work on it, as for the beers, I'll arrange something and we can talk a little treason Michaleen ogh Flynn-The quiet ManMoss
January 17, 200818 yr Author I know one....but shhhhh....you cannot get in unless you get the wink wink from someone on the inside. I take it you haven't been there recently then? You know how many comedians there are out of work around the world ?? and you trying to be one !!!! You appear to have taken my response in umbrage or possibly mistaken its intent, the Forum you allude to, if I am not mistaken, is no longer in operation, if I am not twice mistaken, as for being a comedian, I am not out of work, I just haven't been employed as yet Now, who are you? I mean really, who are you?, have we crossed swords in the past, don't worry just put it on the Forum, we can all keep a secret, we wont tell he mods, honest Good Luck Moss
January 17, 200818 yr In all democratic modern elections there are two constants. First, wealthy folk pay for the campaigns and expect pay-back at the end, and second as in " yes minister", a bureaucracy behind the scenes grinds on behind no matter who wins. Democracy.....eh !!
January 18, 200818 yr You appear to have taken my response in umbrage or possibly mistaken its intent, the Forum you allude to, if I am not mistaken, is no longer in operation, if I am not twice mistaken, as for being a comedian, I am not out of work, I just haven't been employed as yet Now, who are you? I mean really, who are you?, have we crossed swords in the past, don't worry just put it on the Forum, we can all keep a secret, we wont tell he mods, honest Good Luck Moss No umbrage ere amigo. You are mistaken in your mistaken. I am me of course, my sword is not long enough to cross anybody, barely protudes enough to safely reach a urinal.
January 18, 200818 yr barely protudes enough to safely reach a urinal. It doesn't have to reach, if you can improve your aim I can hit treble twenty and finish with a bull nowadays
January 18, 200818 yr Author It doesn't have to reach, if you can improve your aim I can hit treble twenty and finish with a bull nowadays I don't know about you Jangles, but I, as a rule, use the toilet facilities of an establishment, not the Saloon Bar Moss
January 18, 200818 yr It doesn't have to reach, if you can improve your aim I can hit treble twenty and finish with a bull nowadays I don't know about you Jangles, but I, as a rule, use the toilet facilities of an establishment, not the Saloon Bar Moss You can pick your own game
January 18, 200818 yr I often wondered what the first class facilities where like. This is the one for the Proles... gets my vote.
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