Beetlejuice

Sounds like another rumour picked up from a guy in a bar.

But nevertheless if were to become fact I would welcome this with open arms. If travelling to Bangkok once per year would mean no more of the lottery scenario of obtaining an appointment slot or paying extortionate fees to agents, than an annual trip to Bangkok would be a more viable prospect.

As for the elderly and infirm, I am sure that with medical certification a third party would be permitted to apply for the visa extensions on the applicants behalf.

Great, the sooner the better.

My advice is avoid using this type of fencing.

Some years ago we decided to surround our property with this cheap wooden fencing. About 80 baht a panel at the time. Only after a period of 6 months, although the wood was treated with a weather protector, it all began to crack and then within a year the whole lot rotted and fell to bits. So in the end we had a proper brick wall built, but that option can prove very expensive.

The only other cheaper alternative that comes to mind is a wire fence, but of course that does not give privacy, or just install a wooden fence and replace the panels as they rot.

I know there were some timber yards that sold these panels on the Hang Dong road, that`s all I know.

When I decided to change from a married to a Thai visa to a retirement visa, I just took in all my appropriate paperwork including the 800000 baht in the bank letter and then the process was more or less automatic.

Unfortunately although I changed from a married to a retirement visa I am still lumbered with the wife.

None of this is true. If you look at the photo in the OP, it is obvious that the participants are all Lego people.

So let us place this into perspective:

Only 100 persons of each nationality is awarded permanent residence that rather turns this into a very expensive lottery, the chances are extremely slim.

If awarded a permanent residence the total cost will be 200000 baht. Now, considering that extending our visas each year costs 1900 baht, that means obtaining a PR is equivalent to105 years of annual 1900 baht regular visa extensions. Plus taking into consideration that all this will mean is that there is no need to have certain monies saved in a Thai bank every year and not having to visit Immigration once a year and that`s about it. Nothing else would change, most of the rules that are in force for those on non Immigrant visa will still apply, including the 90 day day reports and other limitations that affect ex-pats living in Thailand.

If for a total of 200000 baht obtaining a PR was guaranteed providing the applicants met all the criteria, then I would have no hesitation going for it, but considering it`s a 7600 baht lottery ticket with odds that are probably 1000s to one, than no way. It`s simply not a good deal and not worth the gamble.

My wife and I did our annual retirement/family extensions today. My visa agent was with me for the complete process.

The agent provided me with 2 online queue appointments at 1:30P. We were not called until 1:55P. The female officer in the back was friendly and efficient. She appreciated that the agent had all the required copies ready and initialed. She seemed to enjoy her job which included a bit of friendly chit chat. After completing the process, The agent asked if we can do the 90 day reports. She asked if he had my paperwork and presented it to her. We went to another station for computer face shots which was new for us. We were out at 2:55PM with 2 visa extensions and 2 90 day reports.

I paid my in-house agent (me, myself, I) a well deserved 11,000B for providing me with excellent visa assistance.

I recommend you check your mirror where you might find your own personal and helpful visa agent.

For us today, the immigration office was working just fine !!!!

11000 BAHT! WOW.

I hope for that money the agent came into your house, woke with up with breakfast in bed, drove you in his luxury aircon limousine to Immigration and took you home again after the business was done, giving you and the wife a relaxing head and foot massage before he left.

I also know the Immigration process very well and willing to accompany those applying for their visa extensions and 90 day reports for half that amount, then I could be rich by the end of the year.

Did you pay someone 11000 baht because the so-called agent had clout with the Immigration officers and therefore guaranteed you a slot for that day or just as someone there to hold your hand during the process?

Yes I do have a work permit and we are running the business completely legal.

My wife just found out trough other neighbors that the neighbor in question has connections with the local police as they come their to watch the fights

So replacing the windows looks like our only option

Yes we just opened a guesthouse from our property and were just working on building up positive reviews and now our guest start complaining that they are not able to get a good nights rest.

We are looking at several options one would be replacing the windows with double glassed windows but this will be a considerable investment.

My wife has been living on this property with her family for more than 20 years, so moving is not an option,

But it's just frustrating to see that we have worked really hard this past year to build our business and now we are confronted with a situation which could affect our livelihood.

I would not mind giving any donation to any official to help us out to get this situation within normal limits, I know that completely quit doesn't exist in Thailand.

But some form of a livable noise levels should be not to much to ask for within the city limits.

Amazing how I eventually manage to read between the lines and get to the crux of the matter.

I`will put it to you this way and on a subject that I have warned members about countless times here in the past. If you are running a renting business, a guest-house, then is this run strictly as imposed under Thai law, meaning a registered company where you have the appropriate permissions and work permit?

If so, then you have nothing to lose if your livelihood is threatened by going to the appropriate authorities or even hiring a lawyer after of course trying to negotiate the situation with your neighbor first.

If not, then you are trending on shaky ground, because you have no jurisdiction over the said guest house, plus you cannot afford to bring attention and scrutiny over your business affairs, you will have to let your wife deal with the neighbors and any legal occurrences that may arise from this while you remain discretely in the background.

Those in my opinion are your options or otherwise just continue on and hope for the best.

I don`t make these comments as personal or with prejudice, just putting in some food for thought on your part and some facts that you may wish to take into consideration if you want to resolve this matter.

I would take the police thing with a pinch of salt. Certain Thais who lack total consideration for anyone else will always try to put round that they have police connections or relatives that are police in order to scare people off. And if some police, who I would guess are just part of the local residents in your area do come to watch the cock fights, than so what? Your dispute is with the neighbor not the police. As would be usual with these morons, move them away from one location and they will find somewhere else.

As I said previous, first, it you have not already done so? Go and talk with the neighbor and see where the land lies. It is possible that these events maybe temporary, you won`t know unless you enquire first.

What you decide has to be up to your own discretion. Good luck and wishing you all success with your guest house.

Yes we just opened a guesthouse from our property and were just working on building up positive reviews and now our guest start complaining that they are not able to get a good nights rest.

We are looking at several options one would be replacing the windows with double glassed windows but this will be a considerable investment.

My wife has been living on this property with her family for more than 20 years, so moving is not an option,

But it's just frustrating to see that we have worked really hard this past year to build our business and now we are confronted with a situation which could affect our livelihood.

I would not mind giving any donation to any official to help us out to get this situation within normal limits, I know that completely quit doesn't exist in Thailand.

But some form of a livable noise levels should be not to much to ask for within the city limits.

Amazing how I eventually manage to read between the lines and get to the crux of the matter.

I`will put it to you this way and on a subject that I have warned members about countless times here in the past. If you are running a renting business, a guest-house, then is this run strictly as imposed under Thai law, meaning a registered company where you have the appropriate permissions and work permit?

If so, then you have nothing to lose if your livelihood is threatened by going to the appropriate authorities or even hiring a lawyer after of course trying to negotiate the situation with your neighbor first.

If not, then you are trending on shaky ground, because you have no jurisdiction over the said guest house, plus you cannot afford to bring attention and scrutiny over your business affairs, you will have to let your wife deal with the neighbors and any legal occurrences that may arise from this while you remain discretely in the background.

Those in my opinion are your options or otherwise just continue on and hope for the best.

I don`t make these comments as personal or with prejudice, just putting in some food for thought on your part and some facts that you may wish to take into consideration if you want to resolve this matter.

Someone who raises fighting cocks shows (unless he is forced to do it) that he has no empathy for animals, and that he is a cold-hearted person who will do almost anything for cash. I know a guy personally who raises fighting cocks and as nice and smiling he appears if he knows he has to, as short-fused he is when under pressure... Rest assured that those people will do whatever necessary to get "troublemakers" like you out of the way. They also will know where the complaint was coming from as the RTP (with very few exceptions) is nothing but a rotten pile of corrupt bastards who as well do whatever is needed to make some extra cash. They will snitch on you and your wife. My advise to you is to move away if you simply have rented the place. If you own it... poor you might try to sell, but chances are bleak I guess...

I breed fighting cocks as do the neighbours. I assure you that, at least around here, these animals are well looked after and a fight is not won when one is dead but when one Thai withdraws his fighter it is because he is afraid of further damage. These beasts live to fight, I have had one fight his way through chicken wire to get at the neighbours cock. That's what they do, they fight.

As for being woken up at 5am... you are supposed to go to bed when it gets dark, if you decide to stay up later, try to live with the consequences.

What total and complete crapola. I guess you are British.

Firstly you are breaking the law plus cock fighting is a cruel and barbaric practice. Cockerels do not live to fight, their natural instinct is to overpower other males for the purposes of breeding with females and territory, usually a well balanced affair where nature sets the limits and not artificially placed into fighting situations for the entertainments and the making of profits for idiots, animal abusers and morons.

I would be interested to know where you live and how much money you make out of your cock breeding and cock fighting business?

Ypou call yourself cooked. I sincerly hope that one day your goose is cooked, or should I say chicken.

Good old Beetup juice, always good with an insightful response. What would my nationality have to do with it? The reason that cock fighting is often against the law is that a lot of money gets won and lost on betting. Not around here it isn't. The way it is carried out here is NOT cruel, you should see how these animals are looked after, no way will serious damge get done. Pushed into a corner, you crapola filled piece of garbage, like everyone around here I do not make a penny out of breeding or fighting and hope you learn to read posts properly. Fighting cocks are aggressive beasts as I said, they will break through chicken wire to get at another one, that's when damage occurs, when nobody is there to separate them. Fighting cocks, not nice fluffy chickies.

You never saw a cock fight, did you?

Beetup juice and you crapola filled piece of garbage. We are aggressive are we.not.

In the UK pit bull dog fighting and cock fights has become the sport of the lower classes, especially among the council estate inhabitants, look it up for yourself. As regarding these birds are well cared for prior to being manipulated into fighting each other, this reminds me of the Roman gladiators that were treated like heroes until they were thrown into the arena to fight to their deaths.

i did once watch a few minutes of a cock fighting on video, didn`t have the stomach to watch all of it made me feel physically sick and would never actually go to see a cock fight.

There are no ways that anyone can justify any forms of animal abuse and cruelty to me and cock fighting is a cruel and barbaric practice, no mater how many ways you try to gloss over what is involved. That`s my opinion, that cock fighting stinks, I have no respect for the sport and no respect for those who participate in these kinds of activities, otherwise if all is what you say was fact, there would not be laws set in place to outlaw these practices, laws that you obviously disregard and continue to flaunt with impunity.

If there is gambling involved, it is illegal. Get someone to tip the old bill off, they like the publicity of an easy bust.

I certainly would not take the above advice. Word gets around fast in Thai communities and if there is gambling and money involved you could be leaving yourself and wife vulnerable to those who will bear a grudge.

Where we live there is probably hundreds of feral chickens roaming around the area, we hear them non stop 24/7 including the dogs and cats. Our dogs bark, our neighbors dogs bark, there are the occasional domestic disputes sometimes in the late hours. But this has to be an acceptable part of living within Thai communities and over the years I have become hardly aware of these sounds, none of it bothers me.

As for the cock fights, best to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to it, especially if these events only happen on occasions and are not frequent. Otherwise it`s as one poster has already advised, if you can`t tolerate it than move on somewhere else into an environment more suited to your lifestyle if you prefer absolute peace and quite. Welcome to Thailand and a whole new way of life, for better or for worse.

I have been living in Chiang mai for some years. And I didn't mind when the other neighbor had just a few chickens walking around. But now this new neighbor has brought in 15 fighting cocks which are there permanent. And when the hold the fights people bring in roosters from outside. I'm living in the middle of the old city not on the edge of the city where you can expect a farm where people hold large groups of animals

I'm not expecting peace and quit because this is an utopia in Thailand but I just don't twelve roosters going of at the same time.

If you really cannot tolerate the noise, then what I would do is first take your wife and go to speak with your neighbor and in a polite and diplomatic manner explain to him that the chickens are spoiling the enjoyment of your home and would it be possible if he could move the offending birds and the cock fighting activities elsewhere and then see how your neighbor reacts or whether he is willing to submit to your request or even make some sort of compromise. If the guy is totally non amenable or makes a thousand excuses why he cannot consider your requests, then if you are renting, is to seek accommodation elsewhere.

If the property you live in is owned, and you fail to get a reasonable response from your neighbor, then go to see the head man of the area and see if he can do anything. If the property is owned and you are living in the heart of the city, than you shouldn`t have any problems selling, unless you are running any sorts of business from your property that would make your situation rather more complicated.

If there is gambling involved, it is illegal. Get someone to tip the old bill off, they like the publicity of an easy bust.

I certainly would not take the above advice. Word gets around fast in Thai communities and if there is gambling and money involved you could be leaving yourself and wife vulnerable to those who will bear a grudge.

Where we live there is probably hundreds of feral chickens roaming around the area, we hear them non stop 24/7 including the dogs and cats. Our dogs bark, our neighbors dogs bark, there are the occasional domestic disputes sometimes in the late hours. But this has to be an acceptable part of living within Thai communities and over the years I have become hardly aware of these sounds, none of it bothers me.

As for the cock fights, best to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to it, especially if these events only happen on occasions and are not frequent. Otherwise it`s as one poster has already advised, if you can`t tolerate it than move on somewhere else into an environment more suited to your lifestyle if you prefer absolute peace and quite. Welcome to Thailand and a whole new way of life, for better or for worse.

Last night I went into Google Street view searching for a particular shop in Chiang Mai that I found and by accident I came upon what I have pictured below.

This shop is in the Hauykaew Road area and can be found on the GSV address listed on the photos. I guess it is some sort of bikers shop but it looks like a store from hell. Then I thought; that area, although I would not have described it as ever being up market now seems to have really gone downhill.. The map is dated at 2011 and have no idea if that shop is still there?

Does anyone know what this shop is all about? Just curious thats all.

All you guys saying you dont own your land or house maybe technically you are right but if you are married then you are entitled to 50% if you get divorced that is thai law most gusy seem to just walk away but they are entitled to 50% I even know a guy that was awarded the whole property because he proved he paid for it

For all you Saddos out there that are raining on this guys parade just means you have not met the right person I know TONS of guys myself included who have been happily married for YEARS AND YEARS who have invested in land and homes

This is a true and tragic story that even today makes me grieve thinking about it.

12 years ago I had a Canadian friend, a most kind and warm person who had happily lived in Chiang Mai with his lovely Thai wife for several years. He bought 7 rai of land where they paid staff to grow lum yai and what he believed was an investment and a 3 rai plot of land where the couple built a huge 5 bedroom house on the plot. My friend was in his late 60s at the time and the money he a invested in all the land and property was a huge chunk of his life savings.

Tragically his wife was killed in a traffic accident, run down by a pick up truck. Within a week after the funeral his wife`s ever loving family turned up on his doorstep making claims to his 7 rai plot of land, 3 rai plot of land, his house and even his vehicle that for some reason he registered in his brother in law`s name.

To cut a long story short, his case went on for 2 years and finally at the last civil court hearing it concluded that the judge awarded all his land to his late wife`s siblings, on agreement that my friend could stay in the house for as long as he was in Thailand. He planned to make an appeal but less than 1 year later my friend suffered a massive stroke and died. We believed that his cause of death was due to not only losing his wife but also all the expense and stress he endured doing battle with his wife`s family. And this has been my whole point, everything maybe fine until the unexpected or problems occur and regarding your friend who was awarded 50% of his property by the court, this all depends on the circumstances and at the discretion of the judge so it`s really a case of good luck to all who sail in her.

"if a Thai wife buys land in her name, she has to sign a legal binding document to say that you (farang) have not funded the purchase, which effectively means you have no claim on it."

Not true. I am in the landbook and cosigned the loan.

Wrong, totally wrong.

The Thai authorities have caught on to this ploy long ago.

Firstly, under Thai law, monies and assets legally owned by both spouses meaning assets permitted to be owned by farangs in Thailand are jointly the property of the married couple. A husband cannot loan that under the law his wife has a 50% share of or perhaps will inherit 100% of the husband`s assets if in the event the husband dies, unless perhaps under extraordinary circumstances if the couple are estranged or divorced or some of the assets belonged to one spouse or the other prior to their marriage, such as vehicles, pets and chattels for example.

Even if possible, a legal agreement by a lawyer would have to be drawn up and the Thai wife having to show evidence that she has the collateral to cover the loan in her own right, if in the event she defaulted on payments or she is working at an establish company in secure employment and earning a wage to pay back the loan, plus a reasonable time period would have to be imposed. The land would still be considered as the farang husband`s money if the marital home was used as collateral for himself pertaining to his wife on a non timescale basis. In the event of a divorce case, who owes to who and who owns what would be at the discretion of the judge and usually in these circumstances the judge will rule in favour of the Thai.

Which means, it`s back to square one for you as I explained previous.

"Unless the said land was purchased solely with with Thai wife`s money, than both you and your wife have committed an illegal act."

Absolute rubbish.

that is not even close to how the law reads.

Buying land under a Thai name is but one's wife can own as much land as she wants and can get the money wherever she wants to.

You often peddle this garbage and its getting old.

A farang may own the following types of properties:

1) a condominium.

2) a house as a structure, having no interest on the land on which it sits

3) one rai (or less) of land, provided at least 40 million baht is brought into the country, and permission is obtained from the Minister of the Interior.

4) If purchase of the land is bought under a registered company that meets all the imposed requirements of the foreigner business and company acts.

if a Thai wife buys land in her name, she has to sign a legal binding document to say that you (farang) have not funded the purchase, which effectively means you have no claim on it. This is a legal declaration. The law stipulates that marital assets should be split 50/50 in the case of a divorce, or in the event of the Thai wife dies, 100% goes to the farang husband but he must sell the land within 12 months, unless the legal declaration signed at the land office on land purchase inception can be proven to have been contravened. For example if the wife`s relatives make claims and contest the legitimate ownership of the land by the farang husband and in some cases if the land purchase is proven to have been obtained illegally, the court can impose an order for the land confiscation by the appropriate authorities, that may also pertain if the authorities decided to have a purge on illegal foreign behind the scenes land owners.

As I said; no one may notice, until problems or any disputes arise.

I had to submit three photos to get the Blue Book for my condo, and I am a farang. Procedures aren't exactly identical at every land office, which they generally call the "Amphur."

A land office is not generally called Amphur.

Amphur is the district office. District office doesn't get involved in land transfers

No. Amphur (Amphoe) means district and covers a wide area which could have the Amphur Administrative office and have the Land Office in the same district. The OP only said "The day comes to meet with the owner at the local amphur". He didn't specific what office in what Amphur.

I know it doesn't make much sense to argue with an administrator or moderator, but everyone in Thailand knows that if someone says I go to the Amphur, he means the District office as that is called the Thi wa kan Amphoe in full. Nobody goes to the local Amphur, because they are in the Local Amphur ( district) all the time.

The land department is called the Krom Thidium in Thai, and no Thai person will call it the Amphoe.

Forgive me if I`m wrong, but is this not exactly what our Tywais has explained? That the OP did not specify which local authority office he had visited in the district. Otherwise how else would you like this explained?

Some may not consider the laws of Thailand as worthy of consideration, or as the OP says; he doesn`t give a <deleted>, and believe that contravening the laws is a trivial matter and should not be taken seriously.

As regards the foreign illegal and behind the scenes ownerships of land, real estate and businesses, all may be fine providing no one will notice in the hope that the authorities will turn a blind eye. But as I have said on Thai visa many times in the past, all may seem honky dorey until problems arise and these non-legit ownerships are challenged and come under dispute, which can happen for a multitude of reasons.

Breaking the laws is not a trivial matter, those who abuse the systems have the affect of placing more scrutiny on the ex-pats living here and tightening the rules up for all of us.

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That was painful.

"...the Shanot (land ownership papers) in our name..." I think not. You have Zero interest in the property. If you believe otherwise, you've been had.

What do you mean its not in my name? I signed the papers!

haha of course i know its in the mrs name i really couldnt give a sh%t it will go to the kids when we kick the bucket, 1.6 M pffft

Fresh water running around the property, views of Doi Sutep, no mubans near, hydro farms all around and wildlife everywhere and not far from the Hwy but still far enough.

When i eventually build and move there I'll look forward to meeting and hanging with cool farang on my balcony as the sun goes down, I'll even invite old cranky world haters over for a beer!

Unless the said land was purchased solely with with Thai wife`s money, than both you and your wife have committed an illegal act.

Under Thai law if there are any disputes regarding ownership of the land, the authorities can confiscate it. You have bo diddley rights over that land and the worse part of this is that you flaunt the fact.

I would not stand too often on your future balcony in your illusion of being the King of your castle if I were you, the more discrete the better in your case.

What's wrong with the lot of you? You sound like a Persil advert. Get a life or a woman to wash your clothes.

You mean hire the services of an old scrubber?

It`s to do with the crap quality of the clothing material. At one time I was forever buying new clothes, shirts, tee-shirts, underwear, socks, shorts and trousers. After only a few washes the colour dye would fade or become patchy and the clothes would shrink. My wife kept saying to me that I was putting on weight but I knew that wasn`t the case.

Then later I changed the clothes washing technique and now they last and remain in good condition for much longer.

We have one of those twin tub top loading washing machines, the type that is manually filled with water. What I do is fill the machine with cold water, then add only a quarter small cupful of washing powder. Then I add about 6 large squirts of cheap washing up liquid, the brands that can be bought from the local markets for 10 baht a bottle, not the expensive stuff. Then I run the washing machine for 2 minutes to ensure that the soap powder and washing liquid is well mixed in with the water. After that I throw in the clothes and then swell it all round with my arm for 1 minute. Then I leave it all to soak for a couple of hours. After that I drain the water and then begin running fresh water into the machine while rinsing the clothes by hand under the running water. Then I fill the tub again with cold water and leave the clothes to soak for 15 minutes. Then I hang the clothes outside in the sun and usually by the late evening everything is nice and clean, dry and ready to wear. If you do not have a twin tub manually filling washing machine, than purchase a large washing up bowl and wash the clothes by hand.

The trick is not submerge the clothes in warm or hot water, do not run the clothes in the machine and do not spin dry as this process makes the dye fade, makes the clothes stretch and out of shape and shrinks them. If the clothes are exceptionally soiled or dirty then use a stain remover and soak the clothes overnight. This may appear to be an arduous process but is easy once you get into the routine.

The area code for Chiang Mai, as far as I know, is mostly 053 and 66 53 followed by the actual phone number if phoning from abroad.

I do believe there is also an 052 exchange phone number for Chiang Mai, but the 052 is more often used by businesses and companies rather than residential lines.

Is it me, or does the bar girl scene seem to be diminishing in quality all over Thailand? Samui is a pale shadow of what it used to be. Phuket is pretty depressing. Bangkok seems to be barely holding its own. Hua Hin seems to be the only area that is getting better. Hope the general is not reading this. He seems to object to us having some fun. Chiang Mai is very, very weak, when it comes to good bars. LK is not much to speak of, on any level.

Dont agree.. Have been to most of those spots multiple times this year and would say..

Samui.. Chaweng is going (as per many destinations) more family biased and Samui has always had a younger set due to the islands and FMP.. So the best lookers often work FL around green mango / solo / late.. And are not going for the older, greying pot bellied type as much.. The soi reggae pup zone was rammed with staff, many of whom were at least worthy of buying a drink and Lamai is also rammed with friendly staff.. Good times there just a few weeks ago.

Phuket.. Growing and growing and truly international with plenty of models and real tip top girls working promo etc and in the clubs and high end placed.. These girls are looking at 5 digit money a night and the lower end beer bars like new tiger have more stunning looking girls than you can count.. Get your wallet ready for 300b and up lady drinks and 150 - 200b beers tho.. Girls will be asking 3 - 5 but settle for a lot less if your fit and young or just good fun to be with..

Bangkok is huge and diverse.. from the farang centric spots (nana, cowboy and patpong) to the suk 11 trandies, to tonglor, RCA and the like.. Check a party night at 'the pimp' and say theres only rough old badgers working !! Again close to 5 digit money tho for those types. Again over 50, or just look it, dont dress up for a night out ?? You will stand out.

Thailand has got richer.. Its a middle income country and the cities and tourist spots are now not cheap places to live, and the aspirations of the locals are much more into BMW and versace then making payments on a honda step through. Yet visitors still seem to want to pay the same 1000b long times that they paid 10 or even in some cases 150 years back.. Face it, your being priced out of the top tier, and the smart top tier girls, the ones with brains and intelligence enough to network and use a smartphone, know this.. And know where to go to get the real money.. Hell one girl I am still friends with, who did a couple of years on Patong back 8 or so years ago.. She was so sharp she got herself to the uk, did enough time to get her passport and is now on the international escort market, multi 1000 usd a night and her facebook is Caribbean, Australia, europe, etc etc..

Wanna pay peanuts, you know what you get.. Its not about location.. hell I could send you some line accounts, where they daily advertise the 'bangkok car show pretties' and top tier coyotes, right here in town.. Or go drop 10k in the karaokes on Chiang Klan and say they are all rough.. its about farangs going from being in the higher bracket spending power in the 90s and 2000 era, to now being mediocre at best..

Thanks for this, a most refreshing post to read that makes a huge amount of sense and coming from me, Mr Cynical, is a real compliment.

Yes, this is exactly what I think this is all about, that the Thailand commercial and adult entertainments scene has moved on. The best lookers and cleverest girls have aimed for the higher end of the market plus those who run the more exclusive bars and clubs including the online agencies have manipulated the industry in their favour where they get the pick of the crop and have become more of a draw for the girls with higher potential in that line of work.

This explains the luke warm and orange light districts like the Loi Kroh Road which substantiates what you say; that we only get what we pay for and considering the price scales in that area not much better can be expected or should be expected. Like everything else, we want quality, than we have to expect to pay for it.

I know that many of the commercial adult entertainments establishments in Thailand are now demanding ridiculous amounts of money for services, even surpassing the similar establishments of Australia, America, the UK and Europe or in other words it`s become greedy and in my opinion has become well over priced, silly money in fact. But again as you say; Thailand has got richer, its a middle income country now, no longer are there the desperate offering themselves to budgeted tourists for a pittance, them days are long gone. To put it more in laymen's terms, the party`s over.

Makros in Hang Dong.

Walk to the back of the store to the huge fish section on the left.

There you will find a row of freezer cabinets loaded with bags of many types of frozen fish.