OneMoreFarang

If you have friends (people you actually know, not facebook "friends") who have suffered because of false accusation from women then maybe you would also look differently at this situation. I know the names of my friends but they are not public people and I have no reason to name them. And about lying women, especially to get money: Thailand and this forum is full of stories of guys who lost huge amounts of money to women who they loved and trusted. The situation, at least in Thailand, is so bad that if any wife/girlfriend/friend comes up with a story which requires money (sick grandmother or sick buffalo or whatever) most of us suspect first that that story is a lie. And often they are lies. Do western women tell more often the truth? I have my doubts.

Obviously I don't know how accurate the accusations are. Luckily it never happened to me. But then I was never rich any any accusations would not have made the accusers any richer. But I know about women who told lies about guys which I know/knew. I.e. also in divorce cases. The guys have almost no chance just because of allegations. And lets look at this from another angle: Do you remember all these MeToo accusations? How many of those guys were convicted of the crimes the women accused them of having done? How many guys lost their jobs and reputation because of accusations only? I don't follow all the news but I read about many accusations but I saw only news about very few convictions.

You and many others still think about 12 million like it is a lot of money. For Andrew and his family it is a number somewhere on a sheet. 12 million or double that amount won't change his lifestyle one bit. He will still live in luxury. So what did that payment mean: Pay x and don't have that headache anymore.

Who was accused of rape?

That statement is similar to: I want world peace. Yeah, sure, and it means nothing. He didn't admit any personal wrongdoing.

And the public mostly sees what the media and social media present them. Even in normally not so biased media Andrew was shown as if he is guilty. I guess one of the problems is that by now basically no media outlet dares anymore to question anything which comes out of the mouth of people who some people call survivors. Obviously all those women who want millions from men would never ever not tell the whole truth... It's sad that media sunk to that level.

No, or maybe Lots of stuntmen do "impossible" things with their bikes again and again.

Obviously he shouldn't do that. But probably he still had the bike under better control than many of those want to be racers who are all the time on the streets.

It seems you are one of the people who do their best to bring the public in the direction that they think he is guilty. Or at least it seems you don't even consider he might be innocent. Personally I think we all should (almost) all of the time try to stay with the "innocent until proven guilty" concept. Personally if there is a case from a guy walking away with a bloody knife from a dead body then I think we have a right to assume he is guilty, even if he wasn't until that moment convicted. But in a case like this were the only evidence seems to be that she said it happened I think it is only fair to treat him as innocent or at least as possible innocent (like: let's look and see what else will come out). Treating him like "we all know he is guilty" because he had this bad friend and he was on that picture and he lied is IMHO not fair.

Show them who is the boss in town!

And what does that prove or not? Maybe he doesn't show his face at the party and spends the time with a girl somewhere quiet. Win/win and all that.

"huge amount" for you or me. But that is not a huge amount for the UK monarchy. Their luxury life will continue as usual. It's like me giving an annoying beggar 10 Baht. Here, take it, and go away! And what does it have to do with Andrew if Epstein or any other person had sex with her or anybody else?

It's in the news because she wanted to destroy him. And with MeToo and this modern idea that a woman can't possibly lie she succeeded.

Isn't that a description of many relationships all over the world? If we could have something better and we would be sure we would keep that something better then why wouldn't we change to something better? And with we I mean all of us. Men, women, Thais, farangs, everybody.

I don't know how much many girls plan ahead. It seems most of them don't plan ahead more than maximum one month. Often guy claim something like: She planned it all. Really? We and the girls come from different worlds. Many of us assume that the girl knows what we expect and obviously she should behave like that. And the girl have obviously also expectation, a husband behaves like this and that. But unfortunately often those expectations are miles apart. Maybe a bar girl marries a guy and expects that they will go out all the time and that he will buy drinks for her friends all the time, just like he did that when then got together. And maybe/possibly he thinks those times are over... It seems lots of girls return to the bars because this is what they like and know. Dance and drink and smoke with the friends, party, get drunk, have fun! And I am pretty sure often that is more fun than staying with the decent but boring husband at home. I worked since forever most of the time at home. For that reason I was most of the time together with my gf. Simply put she didn't have many opportunities to do something and keep without me getting suspicious. When guys leave their girls for days or weeks alone then what do you expect? That she sits at home and watches TV?

Wasn't it that he said something that he doesn't remember ever meeting her? Personally I don't know how many girls I met 20 years ago. Do I remember all of them? Sure not. And I am sure Andrew met lots of people who wanted to have a picture of themselves with a prince. Nobody can realistically expect that he remembers all of them.

I think it is always funny when people talk about Thai girls or Thai women. Does anybody really believe they are all the same? Long time ago when I arrived in Thailand I waned the cute young pretty sexy innocent girl as my girlfriend. The easiest way to meet a girl were obviously the bars. So I had a look in the bars. In many bars and at many girls. After a few months I found one according to my taste. She was fun but it didn't work out so we finished our relationship after a few months. Then I did some more research with many girls in many places. And finally I found the one. Like: Wow, she is the one. I am still together with her. Is she similar to other Thai girls? Yes Is she also different in many ways? Sure, my one is different. And my point is it took me some time and some patience and lots of research to find the perfect girl for me. If our relationship will ever end for whatever reason I am pretty sure I will find another one. But I am also sure it will take a long time and lots of research to find the right one. Guys who arrive here and stay together with a girl who they met when they just arrived are option 1 very lucky or option 2: they didn't take their time to evaluate other, maybe better, options.

It's the principle. Is a sleazebag a#$# guilty only because he is an entitled sleazebag a#$#? No! I don't know if he is guilty or innocent. But as far as I know there is no evidence that he had sex with her. But she ruined his life. And "the public" is happy about that.

Do you understand the concept of a settlement without admitting guilt? It doesn't matter if Andrew admitted that she was a victim (in general) and it doesn't matter if she received many millions. That doesn't make Andrew guilty. It obviously also doesn't make him not guilty. But remember: Both parties agreed to that deal. She could have gone to court to hear Andrew in court. She decided not to do that (for whatever reason).

Speaking for myself I am not Andrew's supporter. I support the concept of innocent until proven guilty. And I support that concept even for sleazebags like Andrew. The fact that he is an a$#$# doesn't make him guilty! Recently lots of women accuse lots of men of having abused them or raped them, often decades ago. Many of these men lots their reputation and they job. Reputation destroyed with no way back to normality for these guys. Are they all guilty because some women say they are guilty? Personally I think it is horrible that these days even reputable media help to ruin the lives of people who are legally innocent.

I suggest the following summary for this thread. Fact: Giuffre had sex with Epstein and others and she received money for that. Because she was 17 when she started with this and according to one member here not competent she was a victim at that time. When she was 18 she had sex with rich men for money which is called prostitution. A picture of her and Andrew and Epstein exist when she was age 17. What does that prove? That they were at the same time at the same place. It does not prove if she was trafficked. It also doesn't prove if she had sex with Andrew. It also doesn't prove if Andrew just met her or knew her well. She claims she had to have sex with Andrew. What would have been the consequences if she wouldn't have said: No, I won't do that. No luxury life anymore? Now, about 20 years after the event, she makes Andrew's life and the life of his family miserable. The family is able to pay what is for us a lot of money but what is for them peanuts to settle this case. They pay. Case closed. No admission of guilt. We still don't know if they had sex or not. Public opinion is that most people don't like Andrew. And because he is a creep that obviously proves that he did it (whatever). He is guilty - at least in the public opinion. Now it's up to us which part of her life we want to concentrate on. And it's up to us if it is more important that there is a law in the USA that she was not competent or that she was of legal age for having sex in the place where she maybe had sex.

Summary: With 17 she had sex with men for money and we should call her victim. With 18 she had sex with men for money which is called prostitution. And after that she decided rich men should pay for the rest of her life. I guess then she should be called a businesswomen.

These Bavarian veal sausage are not supposed to hear the church bells at noon. Therefore it is necessary to drink before noon.

I talk with them about cute rabbits and food and other important things in life. ????

I was in Suan Sayam not long after I arrived in Thailand. Looking at those constructions I didn't need much research to figure out one shouldn't trust those "attractions".