OneMoreFarang

The concept. She voluntarily visited Epstein. She wanted to visit Epstein and his friends. How much "competence" does anybody need to decide to visit somebody? In the USA people are legally allowed to drive cars at the age of 16. Obviously they must be competent enough to do that. But then some people pretend they are not competent enough to decide if they want to visit a rich guy or not. Strange.

And did he ever have a realistic chance to defend himself? It seems a huge part of the public made up their mind that he is guilty. He did it. He is rich and lazy and an uncool guy. He must be guilty! Obviously I don't know if Andrew decided himself to make a deal or if his family convinced him that they don't need that kind of publicity. Could anybody realistically prove that Andrew had sex with her? Was anybody in that room and see it? And don't court cases normally work in the way that the accuser or prosecution has to prove that the accused did something wrong? Why does he have to prove that he didn't have sex with her? How can he prove that? Again, I am no fan of that guy. He isn't a likable person. But that doesn't mean he is guilty.

And because she said that does this mean it is true? I didn't follow all the articles about her but as far as I know nobody ever forced her to visit Epstein. Nobody ever forced her to go on a private plane with him. And nobody ever forced her to have sex with anybody. For me it seems she wanted to make money and she wanted to live the luxury life. And it seems at that time she had no problem with providing massages and/or having sex with some rich, famous and powerful guys. To bring this situation nearer to here lets imagine the following: A rich guy goes to Nana and buys lots of drinks. Then he tells some girls: I have a party tonight together with my rich friends. Who wants to come and entertain us? I am sure lots of girls will do that because they want to do that. And maybe a few days later he tells them: Today we fly with my private jet to an island for another party. Who wants to come? I am sure lots of girls will go (again). And will they, maybe 10 or 20 years later, talk about that rich guy who wanted to have sex with them. And he did it again and again and it was so horrible. And I participated again and again. It was my free will...

I think it is interesting that you describe a woman who deliberately destroys the life of a legally innocent person as smart. Words like nasty come to my mind. Nobody forced her to have sex with Andrew - if it ever happened.

Did you ever have a drink with a guy who was at some time in his life in jail? I know a couple of those guys. As far as I am concerned they got their punishment and once they are released that is history. Obviously there are also a$#$le criminals out there. But there are also lots of a$#$le out there who are not criminals. I guess with most girls 14 is too young. But then a long time ago I knew a Brazilian girl who told me she went out at night to have sex when she was 12. And according to her she did that because she was horny and she wanted to have sex (I met her when she was in her 20th). I am sure many of us met girls who we thought are a lot older than they were actually. Should anybody have sex with a 14 years old? No. Could it possibly happen that there is one girl who looks with 14 a lot more mature? Yes.

I think the definition of being trafficked should be reviewed. I.e. if a bad guy puts an innocent person in a cage and transports that innocent person over a border then I think we all agree that this is "being trafficked". But how about if a rich guy asks a girl if she like to join him on a trip to an island or a city far away. And the girl agrees. She could say: "No, I don't want to go there." Is that still "being trafficked"? Personally I don't think so.

About the point of having a UK royal family: I am not from the UK and it's up to them over there. I don't see the point. And about "underage" girls. I don't think giving a massage with 17 and getting paid for that is illegal in most countries. And as was mentioned in this thread a couple of times what is legally underage depends on the country. In some countries a 17 year old girl is underage, in others not. We don't talk about 13 year old girls here. They are definitely too young. But lots of (I think the majority) 17 year old girls have sex. It's not that they are suddenly in a bed with a guy and have no idea how that happened or what is happening. Personally I certainly wouldn't touch a girl who is clearly too young to know what she is doing. I also have no interest in any of those girls. And I would never force a girl to do anything against her will. As far as I am concerned anybody who forces a person (rape) should be in jail or dead. If a pretty 18 year old girl wants to make me happy I like that. And possibly I would also like it if she is 17. But obviously I would only engage with her if that would be legal in whatever location I am...

As far as I am concerned she should be on trial for extorting money and ruining the lives of people who are not proven guilty. Lets assume for a moment Andrew is innocent. Can he prove that? Will people believe him if he, the guy with a bad public image and stupid behavior, says he is innocent? The public thinks he is guilty - without any evidence that he did anything illegal. When I think about myself and my friends in Thailand we all had lots of girls over the years. And we spent a lot of money, we had fun. Luckily none of us is super rich and famous. And luckily we live in Thailand. If we would have had our fun in America and if we would be rich and famous then I am sure some of the girls from many years ago would suddenly "remember" lots of details to extort us.

Like I wrote earlier. I met lots of girls many years ago. And maybe people made pictures at that time. Do I remember all the girls from many years ago? Certainly not, and I am sure I am no exception in that way. And the rich and famous shagging around. Sure. Why not? And I am sure lots or their "partners" were proud to have sex with a royal or prince or someone famous, etc. If I would be a prince and lots of pretty girls want to make me happy I also wouldn't say no. What makes Epstein a dog? He likes pretty girls like many of us. And he could afford many more than most of us can afford. Did Epstein ever force any girl to have sex with him? As far as I know that didn't happen. The problem for Epstein was that he was so rich that many of the prostitutes wanted even more money years later. And yes, I know life is not fair. But there is a difference about that statement in general and seeing that the modern MeToo and woke and whatever "culture" and the people who support that culture ruined the life of a guy who was never convicted of any crime. Imagine he would kill himself because of all this, how many people would think he deserves that? And then imagine a women was accused of something and she would kill herself. BIG DRAMA!

It seems she was paid and lived the luxury life at the time when "it" happened, whatever happened. And then, years later, she went to court and collected more money. And then, again many years later, the same again. Personally I have no problem if girls charge for their services. But if they want money again later and then again more money even later that is IMHO a scam.

Was Giuffre a prostitute and die Andrew paid her or did he know if i.e. Epstein paid her to have sex with him? Or maybe Giuffre was just one of those girls who like to be around rich guys and live a luxury life? And maybe she had sex with a prince. I am sure that would give her some rubber points with her friends.

I guess next time I should decline if a friend invites me to Nana. I always liked it there. And if my gf asks me I always tell her I only go there to hear music and have a few drinks. ????

Andrew is not exactly a nice guy. But I think what is happening to him is bad and unfair in many ways. a) Virginia Giuffre seem to have worked for Epstein for some time, giving him massages and getting paid a lot of money for that. As far as I know it is not illegal to give massages and get paid for that, even with 17. b) Did she have sex with Epstein? Who knows, as far as I know he was never convicted of having sex with her. c) Did she come and see Epstein and his friends again and again? Yes. Was she forced to do that: No. Could she just walk away: Yes d) Now about Virginia Giuffre and Andrew. There is a picture of them together and for me it doesn't seem that she is forced to be there. It's a picture of her and Andrew, not more, not less. What does it prove? It proves that they both were at the same time at the same place. Maybe they saw each other for a minute or maybe they knew each other. Or to say it in another way: Do we all remember all the girls which we met 20 years ago? Personally I definitely don't remember them all. e) Did Andrew have sex with her? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they were even in a room together and maybe she gave him a massage. Maybe more. But is there any prove that they had sex? I don't think so. f) Was Andrew ever treated according to "innocent until proven guilty"? No. At least in the news which I see and read it seems everybody is convinced he did it. g) Does the fact that Andrew knew Epstein and knew that Epstein had often lots of girls around him make him guilty? As far as I see: no, not guilty. Many of us know some criminals and some of us know that they are criminals. Is just the fact that we know a criminal and maybe have a drink with a criminal a crime? As far as I know it's no crime. And I am sure it is no crime to have a friend who is an accused criminal. And/or having a friend who was convicted but served his time (or paid a fee or whatever). All in all I don't know if Andrew is guilty or innocent. What I know is that he was always treated as if he is guilty. And because he is not exactly a likable guy it is difficult to impossible for him to even try to convince others that he is innocent. I think Andrew is a prime example how the press and the MeToo and lots of "he is guilty" people can ruin the life of a person. And all that without any evidence that he did anything illegal. Sad!

This is what I see. The "delivery" was the delivery of the document from above...

Sometimes there are delays with the shipping. I even had it one time that I waited about 10 days and they still didn't ship and then I cancelled the order. Let's not forget that AliExpress is not one supplier. There are (probably) thousands of suppliers. They are not all the same.

I just started this related topic...

I am was waiting for a parcel from China from AliExpress. Then I saw in the tracking that the parcel was at Thai customs and now I received the following. I am pretty sure I have to pay tax/duty. Ok, that happens. I am not so sure what this Transpeed is about. It seems that is a private company and it seems they work together with the Thai Post. Did anybody of you ever use their service? Do they charge extra fees? I tried to contact them per LINE already but I guess today on the holiday they don't work.

I just received a Notification to collect International Postal Items from the Thailand Post. I ordered something from AliExpress, send with registered mail and (according to them) declared with a value < 50USD. Let's look how much they want to collect. For the record: I received many parcels from China and this is, as far as I remember, only the 2nd time in years that I have to pay. But then again this time the parcel is 3.5kg, most of the time I order smaller things.

You are a lucky man. It seems it is "normal" that many people have to pay.

That is and always was a big issue. Some families are reasonable and others are just greedy. Just so that you know what you can expect: They will put a lot of pressure on their family member = your girlfriend. Your girlfriend has basically two choices: Take their pressure and redirect it to you or she is the one who gets all the pressure and they will tell her what a bad and selfish daughter she is because she does not give them enough. If your girlfriend tells them that's it, enough it enough, then this might cause a serious family drama. How to solve it? I don't know. Luckily my gf's mother died many years ago and often the mothers are the worst. As far as I see this is a fight which your gf has to fight with her family. That is the sad reality.

Yes Why are there 4 pages of comments about something that obvious?

I recommend you go with your gf to the place where you want to get your license from and ask them. I say that because a long time ago I looked at the internet what I need and I got i.e. an expensive and certified translation from my home country's driver license. Then at the office (I always forget how it's called) I didn't need the translation and I also didn't need a picture. And it seems the regulations change from time to time and from place to place. Maybe you think you are prepared and then you are not. Go there and ask!

it depends

We call it TiT ????