Thait Spot

Another way of looking at this is :

PTP want to pay so farmers are happy with that.

EC keeps saying no which makes farmers angry.

Farmers blame Suthep and Democrats for making problems.

Farmers blame EC for not allowing payment.

YL appears to be doing fine out of this.

But the farmers are protesting about the government, not the EC or the protesters. They may be uneducated but they are not as stupid or gullible as some.

I think you will find they are protesting about not being paid, thats all.

Read the article.

Its very short as are the words.

The farmers are pissed off at being lied to so many times

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But the rice budget has run out of money and all further payments will need to come from extra-budgetary borrowing.

The more the government resists the EC's calls for an election postponement, the more the EC will continue to say NO!

Yingluck, you messed up so don't expect the EC to bail you out.... Live with it or step down.

Another way of looking at this is :

PTP want to pay so farmers are happy with that.

EC keeps saying no which makes farmers angry.

Farmers blame Suthep and Democrats for making problems.

Farmers blame EC for not allowing payment.

YL appears to be doing fine out of this.

She must be thoroughly ecstatic at having her effigy burned.

That's one for the family album

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The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

This scheme needed nobody the the PTP to sabotage it. It was in that state 5 months ago.

To blame the EC is dishonest of you

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The farmers cannot be paid as Suthep demanded the House dissolved and all the Democrat Party MP's resigned.

So this messed up the payments.

And until an election is carried out and a new government is installed, the payments cannot be made.

So really, Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats are to blame for the lack of payment in many peoples eyes and those same people want an election as soon as possible else they will months and months without payment.

Fail Fail for Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats.

Fail as they are getting blamed for late payment.

Fail as they want to delay the election.

In my opinion the above of course.

Maybe a better explanation is that the caretaker government, when in power, pledged to buy rice higher than the market price and have been unable to sell it. They've lied about G2G sales, for which they are now under investigation, and 60% of what's been paid out so far doesn't seem to have reached the farmers or be able to be accounted for. The inventories don't tally either.

This crap heap was unraveling way before the protests. Money was running out and the 2.2. trillion "fund all holes" loan was being rightly held up. Criticism of the scheme from Moody's, Bloomberg, IMF and others resulted in the sudden spate of GSG sales. Of course the actual details were top secret, so secret that it now appears not real but lies - presumably more little white lies to keep the minions happy.

PTP hoped to get the whitewash, 2.2 trillion loan. release of the 350 billion water management budget, and remove checks and balances all through parliament, into law and implemented before cash flow problems choked them and exposed the real situation. If successful they could have carried on robbing Peter to pay Paul whilst skimming off.

This is just an opinion of course, as no facts have been released and the brave MOF lady seems to have been silenced.

Yes, its just inventories.

The rice is in the warehouse and so your inventory level is high, and running up inventories will eat cash.

When you sell your inventory you have the cash back.

Quite simple accountancy procedures.

The government runs a deficit, whats the problem with that ? Its just distribution of the states money to farmers. What issue do you have ?

You do not like a government in effect running a deficit to help the poor rice farmers ?

Remember Abhisit borrowing money from China and Japan for "economic stimulus", one example is below :

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/03/25/business/business_30098784.php

And remember Abhisit giving people 2000 baht "free" as so called economic stimulus ? Was that not vote buying ?

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola/2009/01/25/entry-1

Funny that when the Democrats/Abhisit borrow money from abroad and dish it out free its not "vote buying" in some peoples eyes, but if PTP buys rice from farmers at a higher price its all vote buying !!

Call it a rice subsidy, call it economic stimulus, call it a "used car buy back scheme", all governments all over the world do it.

All in my opinion of course.

How many of them cream 50% off the top?

That's the difference

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we hear of rice farmers not being paid..pledging scheme..

who can pledge rice..when people read farmers not paid,i think it is only the ones who have many rai of land...

so instead of selling it to the millers at say 12 bhat...they took the big bucks of selling it to the pledge for a lot more...so got stuffed...

so how many rai do you need to join the scheme....

Go sell your logic to the rice farmers.

You'll find as many takers as you will here

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Your logic is somewhat misaligned if you can make a comparison between a national protest against a definitively corrupt and ineffectual government,

And what about your logic of accusing the current government of corruption, when the people they want to replace it with are even more corrupt. You don't find that a bit hypocritical?

So, Mister know it all, who has been named as a replacement?

You're just making it all up as you go along!

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Yingluck is clearly hanging on for the lives of her extended family as they risk being exiled along with her criminally corrupt brother on a raft of extremely similar charges.

All thus talk of olive branches may well turn to willow unless she can fly a broomstick

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"adding that farmers in western rice-planting provinces, including Kanchanaburi, Ratchaburi, Phetchburi, Nakhon Pathom, Samut Sakhon, Samut Songkram and Prachuap Khiri Khan, will meet on the weekend to resolve the delayed payment."

Have all the farmers in the red shirt provinces been paid?

Why is there no mention of Udon Thani or Chiang Mai farmers asking for their money?

Is this what has happened?

If gerrymandering in the 3rd degree can be added yo the list of despicable crimes under thus regime then I'm sure the NACC will deal with it appropriately

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The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

That's a lie

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in every other normal democratic country the election commission are neutral. here they are clearly democrats and yingluck needs to find new commissioners who are totally impartial. this is a disgrace to thailand.

its either democracy or anarchy . there is no other choice.

I don't know where you're from but feel free to explain what would happen in your country if:

MPs cheated during a house vote

MPs cheated with different versions of legislation

The house speaker did not allow opposition debate

MPs attempted to pardon themselves and families of thousands of crimes

A government said it would not recognise the court

Then explain how the Election Commission should proceed when:

The main opposition had boycotted the election

28 constituencies are unregistered

22:constituencies have just 1 candidate

There are huge protests on the streets

The protests are being attacked by guns and bombs

The EC is short of 140,000 volunteers to ensure free and fair elections

I await your replies or indeed from any of the red shirted script followers

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I guess Thaksin needs that coup so bad

I think the last thing Thaksin will want is a coup, as that would effectively kill his amnesty and 2.2 trillion Baht loan bills.

Those bills are dead.

The legal implications of cheating in the house and corruption in the rice scheme has now meant jail terms hang over the heads of his fawnicators.

A coup would mean the ability to claim that sentences were politically motivated. His usual excuse

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Its been pointed out time and time again all over the place.

Over 80% of people in Bangkok have not attended the protests.

Over 99.5% of the Thai population have not attended any protest.

Thats a lot of people who are potentially seriously upset and not happy with these protests and PDRC.

With a population very conservatively estimated at 8.3 million, over 1.6 million bangkokians HAVE attended.

Add to that the numbers from outside and you will find that your percentage is rather pitiful

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I hope if they caught the bomber, hope they let him have a phone call to Yingluck before they lynched him...

That's the way to go, assume guilt, assume association, forego a trial and lynch law!

And amazingly you got a "like"!

Not much different to your kangaroo court for Suthep......

I've been informed that 200 red shirts on motor bikes attacking the protest at Chaengwattana

Maybe the law requires the election to be held Feb 2nd but if all the relevant authorities agree it would be in the countries best interest to postpone it and not to charge the PM. Problem solved?

Indeed. She made that offer and it was rejected out of hand by me Suteph. If he thinks a coup is the best solution, he might need to consider how the international community would react this time. A look at the Washington Post article might give him a hint

You are Suthep?

It all makes sense now

I am starting to understand why Yaowapa Wongsawat (the ugly duckling of the Shinawatra clan) is being so quite. One can only assume after the usual and predictable corruption cases against Yingluck and her MP's that will no doubt prove them guilty, in will come Yaowapa, innocent….Well after her 5 year political ban. Those Shinawatra's just can't keep out of trouble. I can imagine after Yinglucks 5 year ban Yaowapa will be proven corrupt and in will walk Yingluck again. Couple of years later another ban for her and Thaksin's son will be the next PM.

So in summary, Thaksin is a convicted fugitive on the run overseas. His sister is facing corruption charges. His other sister was banned for 5 years from politics. The other sisters husband found guilty of neglecting his duties after….surprise surprise, suspending a corruption investigation into two senior officials while he was a permanent secretary at the justice ministry. That corruption word seems to come up in every Shinawatra case.

Apparently though the Shinawatra's are clean as a PRDC whistle though and have never done anything wrong. It is a bigger conspiracy than the fake moon landing.

And people still think an elected senate is more democratic. All it will do increase the amount of corruption cases against The Shinawatra's drivers, maids, secretaries, doormen, butlers, shoe shiners etc etc etc.

They found the weakness in Thai democracy and are abusing it. They don't even care if they stay in power long enough to abuse it. There is another Shinawatra that will step up to replace the last one.

Elections. Great. Focus on post ballot box muppets. Elections only allow a govt to prove it is democratic. PTP have failed.

"It is a bigger conspiracy than the fake moon landing..."

The earth is flat! You're right. There was no ciorruption in this pure and fair land before a Shinawatra was born.

Sieg Heil!!

Uhh? No ciorruption.

Of course there was.

I'm not talking about before the Shinawatra's. I'm talking about THE Shinawatra's. About how one Shinawatra takes over from the next when they are proven corrupt.

I could explain my post again, but to save time….Look above!

By the way….The earth is round….

Actually the earth is a sphere. If you pick any start point on the earth and move in any direction you will never come to the end, a bit like the Shinawatras.

You're applying a 2 dimensional restrcition to a 3 dimensional situation.

The PTP however, is one dimensional in a 2 dimensional world. Wealth = votes to the power of corruption

" she was democratically elected" and has the right to stay the full 4 years, I have been reading posts like this for 3 months

Been reading it since she was Democratically elected. You'll see the figures here. Not PT figures, but the real actual voting figures that show this to be a fact.

What is it with elections and you guys. We have more of them here than we should, and this is due to the continual coups. Still everytime, they vote against the ingraied historical corruption that is represented here by the Dems.

Next election, they will win. The only questions is will she win an election this year, or will there have to be another Junta Installed and overthrown, before she can win the next election. But, either way, she will win the NEXT free and fair election in this country. <deleted>, they almost won the one in 2007 with the full rigging and no party maching behind her. The dems only managed 30% under their own installed Constitution and Election rules.... 30%

All the talk of vote buying is crap. Lets say it is "Bluesky True" though. Did Thaksin spend more on vote buying the the Dems backers spent staging coups annd recovering later from the taxpayer. Post 2006 rise is striking.. 35% in one year http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/09/03/thailands-hungry-military/

So what happens is... the Coup is planned and financed and then the money recovered from the tax payer once their Puppets are installed. Is this what people should be fighting on the streets for more of?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011

"Been reading it since she was Democratically elected. You'll see the figures here."

You can see the number of votes she got here ZERO

I still think it's Bangkok citizens and youth gangs doing most of this. The citizens are fed up with the protest and the youth gangs have nothing better to do. Very little proven it is Red Shirts, but it may be Bangkok citizens who lean towards the Reds. Another group would be rogue military or police.

" Bangkok citizens and youth gangs"

Ummmm. Do you see military grenades and guns at your local 7/11?

I thought not

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9mm automatic pistol for self defence I can understand....but what kind of people need 4 grenades for self defence? Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Red shirts.

I just got done watching a half hour show about Thailand on News Asia. The red shirts should have claimed no understand. One even blamed all the countries problems on the anti government protesters. The interviewer was kind. He didn't even try to ask the guy how the protesters got all the money that was supposed to be spent on rice. A lot of them just said one man one vote. What a novel idea. I wonder if it will ever catch on. In fact I wonder how many votes he cast at the last election.

The sad part was not a one of them said any thing about the issues. Not a word as to what Yingluck has done for them. It just reinforced in me the need for a real education here in Thailand. Who ever or when ever the next PM comes into office I hope they have the guts to make that the first thing on their to do list.

I'm sure these esteemed toilers of the soil believe in one man one vote but I'm convinced that if you tell them that Surapong is voting for Thaksin so he's already got his vote and that woman are excluded from this game so a crisp "X" in the box marked "No" will be rewarded with a box full of crisp notes and the deeds to Chiang Mai when Thaksin returns to Bangkok

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I can't imagine how either of you could be more offensive to the rural people of Thailand. You write, "these esteemed toilers of the soil" with contempt. Clearly you feel that the people of the N/NE are simple, stupid farmers and don't deserve the vote. Congratulations: you speak just like the upper-class Thais of Bangkok.

The crucial issue of course is the issue that one of you mentions above with such contempt: "one man one vote".

It is one man (and woman) one vote that is going to determine the future of this country. There is nothing you privileged farangs or Thai upper classes or Generals or judges or Mr Suthep or southern followers can do about that. The problem that you the conservatives in this country face is that Thaksin started an unstoppable process: he let the genie of democracy and empowerment out of the bottle. As a result, the future direction of Thailand is certainly with the people of the N/NE because they now have the confidence they need and they have the numbers on their side, and so they are going to finish the job of democratisation that Thaksin started.

Yes, "one man one vote" will determine the future of Thailand. Scary, eh?

I don't understand the rest of your post about "woman are excluded" "box full of crisp notes" etc. Clearly votes have been bought on both sides, but it has not materially affected elections according to the studies I have seen.

So, you take my post and from it you determine:

1. I an saying that N/NE people are stupid

2. I don't think that the N/NE people deserve to vote

3. I am a a privileged farang

My family are from the NE and I most certainly do not think that they are stupid - poorly educated yes, but not stupid.

I think that every voter has the right to vote - but not to sell it (for what effectively amounts to less than 1B a day per administartion)

The privileged farang thing is just nonsense - so I shall ignore it

Now, when the voters have finished voting and we are left with a government that has a majority around the size of the rice farmers (who coincidentally have been promised that they will be paid massively over the market price for their goods) then you have a flawed democracy. A bought democracy. Same with the minimum wage and the graduates salary (that withered on the vine).

Nevertheless that democracy was respected. For 2.5 years.

Then the government thought that it was god and could do whatever it liked. Free Thaksin? No problem. Seize the upper house through judicial coup? No problem. Cheat with different versions of legislation? No problem. Cheat on the house votes? No problem. Defy the constitiution court and refuse to accept it's jurisdiction? No problem.

So you see, the democracy that the PTP was given was not respected - they did not respect the votes of the people.

You could write a dictionary on the invective aimed at Suthep on this site. The truth of the matter is that this little man who was written off by so many has done so much positive for Thailand already. Still the insults fly. And the awards come When there is a bronze statue of the man who rid Thailand of corruption and condemned the corrupt to pergatory in Dubai we will all be eternally grateful to the silver haired kamnan from the south Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Pass the bucket ...

I believe Suthep uses plastic bags for his donations.

Maybe yes maybe no.

Just because the farmers are protesting dosnt mean they wont vote for PTP ...... after all who else are they going to vote for the dems who have no interest in bettering their lot ? I don't think so.

Its a real shame these people have been rolled over forever and they arnt going to get what they need from PTP just a bad deal and they wont even get that with the dems.

When a party shows up in the north with some real interest in helping the rural poor then they will have a real chance, until then they will be as they have always been a serf class

As we all know, the can't vote for the dems.

Wish the RS would start their own party.

Yep there needs to be someone who will support the farmers.

Like the Dems did when they were in power when they paid the farmers a direct subsidy.

But that is all forgotten now that the great lie that Abhisit and Suthep murdered the rioters in 2010 has created so much hate.

Dude they DID murder the people in 2010 by allowing live fire in such an area with so many innocents killed it cannot be refuted they allowed thais to be shot and killed by sanctioning the army to open fire, i lived through it same as many of us please take off your sunglasses.

The Dems are NOT an option for the farmers everyone knows it, regardless of anything else the Dems dont give two hoots for the poor farmer, that is why they will continue to vote PTP probably regardless of their anger. They need one from their own, not a shin not another elite but a grass root farmer or rural born and bred visionary.

The Thai police are armed and permitted to fire.

Does that make any government in power murderers when they shoot?

I think not

Thaksin would agree I'm sure

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