icare999

Therefore the only way in which I could retain the personal allowance would be to sell my property in the UK

Or....if you have a spouse with no overseas income that would be taxable in the UK and is entitled to reside in the UK and is someone you trust...transfer the ownership of the property into the name of said spouse and don't claim that she is non-resident when you complete the UK tax return (or use the statutory residence rules for her to be deemed UK resident) so as least one of you can use the personal allowance. Of course there are IHT issues to consider.

Thinking again about this, if said spouse's only income was from UK property rental, then she could stay non-resident and still get the full personal allowance since she would be deemed to have strong economic ties to the UK. Same for any kids over 18 years old that you might want to transfer ownership to...

I'm sure thats not right my This wife gets no UK allowance because she's not a UK citizen and does not live in UK and as far as UK tax authorities are concerned her only income comes from rentals in UK. ?? where on earth dic you get that idea ??

sorry its just your interpretation of what might occur not what is. IMO its a very silly interpretation and id be amazed if they would accept that but as someone pointed pout even if they did ( no chance IMO) their are Thai tax implications.

Therefore the only way in which I could retain the personal allowance would be to sell my property in the UK

Or....if you have a spouse with no overseas income that would be taxable in the UK and is entitled to reside in the UK and is someone you trust...transfer the ownership of the property into the name of said spouse and don't claim that she is non-resident when you complete the UK tax return (or use the statutory residence rules for her to be deemed UK resident) so as least one of you can use the personal allowance. Of course there are IHT issues to consider.

Thinking again about this, if said spouse's only income was from UK property rental, then she could stay non-resident and still get the full personal allowance since she would be deemed to have strong economic ties to the UK. Same for any kids over 18 years old that you might want to transfer ownership to...

I'm sure thats not right my This wife gets no UK allowance because she's not a UK citizen and does not live in UK and as far as UK tax authorities are concerned her only income comes from rentals in UK. ?? where on earth dic you get that idea ??

Be careful about selling and repurchasing any property you may own in the UK as there is likely to be a time limit in which this will be treated as being tax avoidance and therefore not allowed. In that event the Inland Revenue would treat the original purchase price (after allowing for any improvements) to be the purchase price for capital gains tax purposes rather than the new, higher, purchase price.

When the acquisition price of an asset for capital gains tax was index-linked some 30+ years ago, you could elect (for all assets) to have the value for capital gains tax to be either the original purchase price or the value as at a certain date (6th April 1981 if my memory is correct). When indexation was subsequently removed, I think you were allowed to make a further election but my memory is a bit vague on that.

I suspect therefore that if the exemption from capital gains tax is removed for non-resident tax payers, there will be a similar option to elect for either the original purchase price or the value as at a specific date - perhaps 6th April 2015?

Alan

nonsense its perfectly legal and is tax planning. In any case i actually phoned and asked tax people person i spoke to as usual was some kid who knew nothing at all and put me on to someone else who stated it should prove no problem.

Many many ways to skin a cat you know.

If it ever came to it and it got to silly wed just sell all and not pay. They are hardly likely to pursue my Thai wife are they since we dont live in UK.

But might be better just sell it all and forget UK for investment purposes.

just because your paranoid does not mean they aren't out to get you.

Your idea they will give a choice is based on total misunderstanding of CGT rules over last 20 years. Ive been doing property in UK for over 60 years and in that time bought at least 80 + properties. When they removed indexation their was no such option since argument went they reduced CGT rate to account for it from 40% (long before it was 30%) to 18 or 28% depending on weather it put you into higher tax band or not. Taking away indexation was a very clever move since it effectively increased the CGT tax for a lot of people over long term.

I can't speak about buying and selling houses but when I first started working for the Bank of Scotland 40 + years ago, we would sell and then immediately buy back the same stock exchange investment to realise a gain fot capital gains tax purposes. That was outlawed so we started selling on day one and then buying back the same investment the following day. That too has been outlawed and I find it hard to believe that the same rule doesn't apply to the buying and selling of house

I accept that I was wrong about an option being available when indexation was done away with.

I latterly spent 25 years in a specialist department and on more than one occasion, I had to tell a solicitor (politely) that he was talking <deleted>.

Forgetting about investing in the UK is an option but I'm not sure whether or not I can take my pension fund from the Bank of Scotland and invest it elsewhere and even if I could I'm not sure exactly where would be the best option. If I had to leave my pension where it was then it would make no difference to me whatsoever if I retained my UK investment portfolio.

Alan

I'm fully aware of bead and breakfast for shares that used to occur but its different IMO as far as I know it was used for same shares. Selling one property and buying another is not same unless you sell say to a friend and then buy back from that friend. I did consider getting my wife to sell to me and then after APr next year id simply sell back to her but decided that while i believe legal might be subject to some form of clampdown but i doubt it particularly if few properties were involved and almost certainly not if it was only one. Selling some properties and then buying some different ones i doubt they would or could tax since one could argue you were only readjusting your portfolio particularly if you went from say low yield quality property to high yield low quality rentals or vice versa.

However I'm fed up with constantly having to be one step ahead of taxman in order to preserve for my wife and kids what I've sweated for all my life which is why I've over last 30 + years taken 75%+ of out wealth totally out of UK tax claws. Now i need to decide weather to just give up totally and advise my wife and kids to take out the rest. I probably reduce it further or rather get my wife and kids to reduce further and anyway future is in Asia not in west so perhaps its better.

re your pension fund ?? haven't the government said soon people will be able to withdraw their pension pot. Myself I've always said pensions are a waste of time and everyone should do their own since I was convinced and still am that one day government will steal those as well either directly or by inflation except of course our masters who ensure they have index linked pensions but IMO even those will be taken somehow.

I have read the links, now I want to see if I have grasped the implications.

If I sell the two properties I rent out in the UK before 5 April 2015 I will pay no CGT? ( I have been out of the UK 10 years)

If I do not sell them then I will not only be liable for CGT when and if I do, but also I will be taxed at 20% as my personal allowance will have gone from 10,000 pa to NIL

Have I got this right?

If you sell before 5th April 2015 there would, unless the rules have changed since I moved over here, be no CGT liability unless you were to become resident in the UK within 5 full tax years of claiming non-residence status.

I think the rates you are using were replaced a few years ago. I think the rates are 18% or 28%, with the higher rate applying if the gains when added to your UK income take the total above the level at which income tax is charged at 40%.

Alan

totally correct Ive had property in UK for last 60 years and have kept fully up to date with rules. Most people will of course pay at 28% since when theirs no indexation anymore and its added to your income and then if your in higher rate you pay 28%. Its simply theft IMO and when inflation does take off again as impure it will after 28% tax on gain I predict many will not even get back on selling what they paid plus inflation.

only good thing is at moment when you go any property you leave is revalued at current values and theirs no CGT tax on death. This is very useful if you only have a small property portfolio (less than IH tax threshold).

But it probably wont be long before they catch on and say on death CGT is payable and then IH tax.

Ive been very careful to get my estate in UK below IH threshold and put some UK property in my This wifes name and our children's but i could see all this coming so sold most and got money out of UK while I could and then gave it to my wife and kids.

Im seriously considering just selling all up in UK my small bit my wives and our kids and simply putting it somewhere offshore with very low tax and no property tax or IH tax. Thailand at moment does not have CGT or IH tax but i believe their are discussions to introduce property and IH tax here,. Their is some very negligible land tax on more than 3 Rai but its peanuts (in our case a thousand a year on around 100 rai)

There is normally a tick box to indicate that you are non-resident. This is no longer there hence if you cannot enter a valid postcode you cannot move to the next page. I queried this by email and was told that online self assessment was only available to UK residents. Please tell us more about "and even gave me a "dummy" UK postcode". How did you get them to do that?

When I completed my first online self-assessment (from Bangkok) I had the same issue with the postcode. I sent them an email and got this the reply. I've used the "fictitious" postcode ever since!

Dear Mr XXXXXX Thank you for your email. Some customers are having problems with the `postcode' field on the TellUs about you page of the 08/09 HMRC return. This box has been incorrectly made mandatory, so if you do not have a postcode (e.g. overseas addresses, etc) you will receive the error message `Please complete postcode'.To resolve this issue, please use the following fictitious postcode Q1 1IJ (Quebec, One, One, India, Juliet). This will allow you to continue completing the rest of your return.

Regards Online Services Helpdesk Opening hours: 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. Website:   www.hmrc.gov.ukemail:     [email protected]: 0845 6055999 Minicom:   0845 3667805Fax:       0845 3667828

sorry pressed post by accident before adding comment

I was told last friday by Tax help desk that i could not complete m line unless i used a different software than that provided by IR. This was because nearly every year my tax return gets sent back with some trivial thing wrong and i said it would be a lot easier if i could just complete on line. Ive been given same answer for years. Most frustrating since as stated it always gets sent back with some trivia. This year it was fact that they had changed forms and said i needed to fill in a new non resident form when i never needed to before. I did however put all information they needed in notes but they said had to be on form. So ?? i asked since I've been non resident since 1987 and had a letter from IR confirming this why on earth did they not send me form with my tax return . My thai wives tax return was also rejected because they sent her short return and although it showed all her rental income on it they said she had to complete a flu return if she had rental income. ?? so why send her short form when before you've always sent long one and why does short form have section for rental income ?? of course no answer given except repeating they needed more forms.

UK IR is total a total mess

mind you they are so incompetent if anyone wants to avoid tax unlikely they will get caught its pathetic and since cuts of course they have replaced tax officers who knew what they were about with kids who seem to know a fraction of what I know. WAste of time having a help desk IMO.

There is normally a tick box to indicate that you are non-resident. This is no longer there hence if you cannot enter a valid postcode you cannot move to the next page. I queried this by email and was told that online self assessment was only available to UK residents. Please tell us more about "and even gave me a "dummy" UK postcode". How did you get them to do that?

When I completed my first online self-assessment (from Bangkok) I had the same issue with the postcode. I sent them an email and got this the reply. I've used the "fictitious" postcode ever since!

Dear Mr XXXXXX Thank you for your email. Some customers are having problems with the `postcode' field on the TellUs about you page of the 08/09 HMRC return. This box has been incorrectly made mandatory, so if you do not have a postcode (e.g. overseas addresses, etc) you will receive the error message `Please complete postcode'.To resolve this issue, please use the following fictitious postcode Q1 1IJ (Quebec, One, One, India, Juliet). This will allow you to continue completing the rest of your return.

Regards Online Services Helpdesk Opening hours: 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. Website:   www.hmrc.gov.ukemail:     [email protected]: 0845 6055999 Minicom:   0845 3667805Fax:       0845 3667828

Icare999 has the most sensible thinking.

These steps are just the beginning.

Think about the precedent being set for all these tax rises. This by a conservative government. How you think labour will get stuck in if they win the next election. They already basically declared they will declare war on landlords.

your 100% right if labour win and even if they doth 90% sure first they will remove mortgage relief on loans for buy to let and then introduce (as was case in 70%) introduce a investment income surcharge (then it was 15% hence in 70's top rate was 98%, I know thats hard to believe but check it out).

of course landlords are an easy target hated by most due to envy but I have to agree its contributed greatly to ridiculous high house prices in UK. Whats contributed most is housing benefit which means some can let pout total crap housing for very high rents. If you look at buy to let let to those on housing benefit mist not all are very very sub standard and then compare with that let on proper open market you will see rents in sector only letting to non DHSS are not much higher but far far better.

Their is a reason yields on property let to those on housing benefit is often 8% or much better while yields on decent good quality housing let to non housing benefit tenants is only 4% or so . I know because I've been in property ten tales for 60+ years and while we nay let to non DHSS I know many who think were mad since their yields are double or more but they do admit quality of their housing is rubbish and often their tenants are very bad so they argue why give good decent housing for people who will just abuse it.

Sorry off topic a bit but these new tax changes and ones to come are only going to drive good landlords away. These only hit ex pats but next lot will hit all landlords and just hit ex pats harder.

Be careful about selling and repurchasing any property you may own in the UK as there is likely to be a time limit in which this will be treated as being tax avoidance and therefore not allowed. In that event the Inland Revenue would treat the original purchase price (after allowing for any improvements) to be the purchase price for capital gains tax purposes rather than the new, higher, purchase price.

When the acquisition price of an asset for capital gains tax was index-linked some 30+ years ago, you could elect (for all assets) to have the value for capital gains tax to be either the original purchase price or the value as at a certain date (6th April 1981 if my memory is correct). When indexation was subsequently removed, I think you were allowed to make a further election but my memory is a bit vague on that.

I suspect therefore that if the exemption from capital gains tax is removed for non-resident tax payers, there will be a similar option to elect for either the original purchase price or the value as at a specific date - perhaps 6th April 2015?

Alan

nonsense its perfectly legal and is tax planning. In any case i actually phoned and asked tax people person i spoke to as usual was some kid who knew nothing at all and put me on to someone else who stated it should prove no problem.

Many many ways to skin a cat you know.

If it ever came to it and it got to silly wed just sell all and not pay. They are hardly likely to pursue my Thai wife are they since we dont live in UK.

But might be better just sell it all and forget UK for investment purposes.

just because your paranoid does not mean they aren't out to get you.

Your idea they will give a choice is based on total misunderstanding of CGT rules over last 20 years. Ive been doing property in UK for over 60 years and in that time bought at least 80 + properties. When they removed indexation their was no such option since argument went they reduced CGT rate to account for it from 40% (long before it was 30%) to 18 or 28% depending on weather it put you into higher tax band or not. Taking away indexation was a very clever move since it effectively increased the CGT tax for a lot of people over long term.

no can't be bothered since it will make no difference at all Other one you missed which really pisses me off is IH tax rules so if i leave any money over 325k allowance to a wife who is UK citizen or lives in UK its free of IH tax but Thai wives if eel I've here get a pathetic small 60k allowance. If you are older and have kids and worst happens your widow and kids deserve to get what you worked all your life for. I solved problem long ago by taking enough away from UK and also putting it all in my This wife and kids names.

only solution is to move all out of UK or if you dont have enough go back to UK

the UK is totally bankrupt and before they do what is needed (totally cut welfare and spending) they will as an old labour chancellor said squeeze all until pips squeak. Don't worry ex pats are first easier targets then it will be all pensions then capital controls until people rise up and say enough is enough

does not bother me at all and never has for last 30+ years. Ive been called uncle forang often in villages. Problem is westerners take it as an insult same as Alian when at immigration. Actually it means anyone white from west with white skin excludes Japanese. Their are other words for indians japanese etc

now stupid forang i might object or fat ugly forang

people are just to sensitive

what a revolting snivelling little coward this man is a total bully that when someone stands up to him he collapses into a heap I just hope those followers he still has art last take of their blindfolds and see this vile man for what he is

I assume I will be dead by age 80.

I need 500k a year to live on (with 4 hangers on).

(without the extras, I would only need 360k/year)

So if I had 10M in the bank earning 3%, and I was 60+, no need to do anything.

How old are you?

How much do you need to live on per year?

Do you have any other income?

well I'm over 80 and need at least 250,000 baht a month to live what id call a good life. We dont eat out dont have BMW's or anything like that but 2 children education at moment is still 70,000 a month or so medical is 20,000 ++ electricity 10,000 (8 air cons) We live very well but not what id consider hiso at all

So 40,000 baht a month must be living like a Thai which i could if needs must but prefer what i call a decent life style

Thread's receded to Page 6 = NO interest in the Gold

---------------------------------------------------------------

I'm Long @ $1297

which for me is good i Keep buying and am 95% + sure in end it will prove to be best thing I've done. Were about even for gold but very down on silver with around 2 million baht loss

well see over next few years I'm sure one way or another and if gold goes back to 800 $ and silver to say 12$ it will hurt financially a lot but not seriously affect our life

 

Happily together 30+ years  and for last 15 years everything here in USA and in UK in my Thai wives named and our children. BUt everyone tells me for last 30 years she will dump me. Strange or is it just possible their are some real relationships around

 

 

Maybe, but then my US wife dumped me after 30 years.

 

As they say in the financial world,

Previous ROI is no indication of future returns.

(especially with menopause approaching)

 

and i parted with my first wife my choice. No problem we split assets 50/50 in fact she got a bit more  but then she deserved it for putting up with me

Therefore the only way in which I could retain the personal allowance would be to sell my property in the UK, when would presumably then lead to me being clobbered for capital gains tax. As always when tossing coins with the jolly old taxman it's a case of "heads I win, tails you lose", I'm afraid.

If you sold up before April next year you wouldn't be subject to capital gains tax, as the law still exempts non-residents from CGT until then.

Moreover, when the law is introduced, capital gains for non-residents will be calculated from the property value in April 2015. Then if you stay non-resident and decide to sell sometime in the next say, 4-5 years, it is possible that you will pay little or no tax, as the value may remain stable or even diminish.

I'm thinking about this too, as I will lose about £1400 pa if rental income is not included as UK connected income for assessment of eligibility to retain the personal allowance.

Also there will be an election between now and when this policy is due to come into effect, so Call me Dave and his smug old Etonian cohorts may very well be kicked out to to focus on their own multimillion pound fortunes rather than our couple of thousand quid, and it's just possible the policy may be delayed or even abandoned...

i dont think you can claim prop;arty will be revalued particularly since details are still being considered If like my wife property was aquaria 20 years ago and its not revalued which is quite possible their are massive tax implications I think better safe than sorry so she's put her UK property on market and then well decide weather to rebut or just withdraw money from UK before they also introduce a tax for withdrawing money such as in SA and other countries or ban it entirely as in 70's

If the government were to restrict non-residents entitlement to the Personal Allowance, it would intend this to apply to types of income which are taxable both in the UK and overseas (such as that from immovable property) but to retain the Personal Allowance on income that is taxable exclusively in the UK.[/size]

I voiced an opinion along these lines in the other thread. I believe we will see the HMRC introduce the term "Allowable income"

This is what we need to get sorted out - "taxable exclusively in the UK".

As you know, Thailand taxes a UK pension on a "remittance" basis - they tax it if you take it into Thailand (in the year you earn it).

What does HMRC intend "taxable exclusively in the UK" to mean in the context of a remittance basis? Do they mean that the income is prima facie taxable in the other country (in our case, Thailand), with the amount being quantified by reference to the amount remitted, or do they mean just the amount remitted, i.e. the amount that should be taxed?

Obviously, if it is the first, it will have a massive impact on people with British pensions in Thailand.

Altering the word "taxable" to "taxed" would solve the problem.

As I said in my response to this consultation exercise, the Government really shouldn't get too hung up on whether or not various income sources are exclusively taxed in the UK given the lack of consistency between the various tax treaties which have been negotiated with other countries. Far better, I think, for a case-by-case approach to be adopted on the basis of information reported in annual self-assessment returns.

The critical factor in determining whether or not we shall continue to be eligible for the personal allowance will, I think, depend on the outcome of the proposed "economic connection to the UK strength" test which the Government seem to favour applying to each non-resident. But we need to be certain on what types of UK-generated income will be included in the percentage calculation (i.e. sandyf's "allowable income"). Certainly the Government's stated intention is that pension income will be included in the reckoning. So if UK occupational and state pensions are your sole source of income you should still be OK as regards continued eligibility for the personal allowance.

On the other hand, if you are also in receipt of rental income derived from property you own in the UK and the Government decide NOT to include this in the "economic connection to the UK strength" test percentage calculation, then you could be in trouble. In my case, 58% of my income is made up of an occupational pension and the remaining 42% of rental income. So I would fail this test even if the percentage threshold were set at 75% rather than 90% and, hence, no longer be eligible for the personal allowance.

Therefore the only way in which I could retain the personal allowance would be to sell my property in the UK, when would presumably then lead to me being clobbered for capital gains tax. As always when tossing coins with the jolly old taxman it's a case of "heads I win, tails you lose", I'm afraid.

if you sell it before April next year and are non resident then no CGT is due Id recommend anyone with significant gain on property do this anyway and then buy back to get a higher base but in long term any moneys left in UK will be targeted for more and more tax and landlords are easy targets

I've already sold all or given to my Thai wife many years ago but we now need to carefully consider weather to simply sell before next April her property and our children's in UK and simply give up trying to generate income in UK. Next I'm sure they will attack CGT exception for shares for non residents and generally attack all pensions

I can tell you having sold and bought industrial property recently in the UK, that HMRC wants your National Insurance number so that they can check if tax has been paid on rental income and to check if any capital gains tax is due.

It's the end of "slush money" as we used to call it.

CGT tax is and was not payable if you are non resident but thats due to change next April THe exception was one of main reasons i became no resident but when it changes next April I might return and claim everything I can since its well over 5 years since i sold or transferred to my this wife my last property in UK. If they introduce also no tax allowance for my other income from investments that will be last straw. I know several ex pats who have returned to UK because they can't afford school fees medical and rest and now Ii've of state with their rent paid for.

Actually i probably wont return since my kids are nearly finished with their education and while my health care costs are very high at over 5000 gbp a year here id not really want to subject myself to lottery of NHS. On other hand I could get main stuff done here like operations and get UK to pay my over 15-20,000 baht a month medicine costs.

The headline is somewhat misleading. I have 6 rented properties and pay tax on net earnings from all of them, have done for years

but if your a uk citizen you get full personal allowance which can be used against any income rents or otherwise For example my children own property in UK which is let out and weach as UK citizens pays no tax on rental income since net its below their personal allowance. They have dual nationality and live here so change will mean they will loose 20% of their income. I wish people would stop posting BS this is major change

As I've always said the scam mostly benefited the well off and rich buying cars for their kids We k now at least 20 people who bought under scheme and live in a quite poor Thai village. Around 18 bought by people who would have bought anyway or brought forward a purchase or for their Thai girlfriends who would never have bought on their own and 2 who bought from our village could and do to have income to make repayments and will certainly loose the cars. Worse i guess those poor who really should not have been duped will now have no car but have huge debt to pay shortfall and i guess rebate back.

Another wonderful Taksin scam to male his clan and hangers on richer and poor poorer and so under their total control

What did you always say when only 500 defaulted? Gee, 500 is a lot for rich families?

what on earth are you taking about my point is most who bought were from my experience very well off and many paid cash except 2 in our village. Several here have also said they bought for their girlfriends so IMO most wont default since they could have bought anyway and many would have down so anyway. Poor will mostly all default in end because if your earning 10k baht a month you simply can't make repayments and whoever reckoned their was any credit check must live in another country or at least not where we live We know for a fact 2 thais who have bought 1.5 million baht houses on full refit who earn around 10-12,000 a month and while for first 2 years they pay 0% interest it then goes up to 7%

do the maths stupid Taksin scam

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It appears that we have been defaulted on , the missus bought a 1.5 in December 2012 with the promise of 100,000 back from the government and we still have nothing

The missus has never previously had a car in her name ?

Nope she passed her test in 2012 and we got a fiesta for her. She went with a bit of an angry mob to Bangkok in April this year and they promised everyone would get their money. Ive read up about it once and apparently it should happen in this tax year. To be honest its not really hurting us financially but I imagine it is hurting some people. It also doesn't instill much confidence if future "Schemes" are introduced

Maybe it would be good to see the default figures of government unpaid rebates.

My son was due his rebate in April this year. On enquiry he was told they had lost the paperwork and new forms were required with the promise it would be rectified within 2 months. He followed up in May, the officer had apparently incorrectly filled out the 2nd lot of forms and he had to go back to the office again, new forms and a further 2 months. None of these problems were proactively advised, the information only proffered under enquiry. Needless to say, we are still waiting. We are dealing with the provincial office, they are now blaming Bangkok. It is a 100km round trip to this office, the boy has been at least 4 times. It smells very much like a delaying tactic to me. Maybe he should start claiming expenses.

I know of another such case, with an even longer delay.

I wonder how quickly the Finance Dept. will reclaim, and to what extent enforce, the reimbursement of rebates paid that are now voided by defaults. - No doubt with astonishing efficiency.

As I've always said the scam mostly benefited the well off and rich buying cars for their kids We k now at least 20 people who bought under scheme and live in a quite poor Thai village. Around 18 bought by people who would have bought anyway or brought forward a purchase or for their Thai girlfriends who would never have bought on their own and 2 who bought from our village could and do to have income to make repayments and will certainly loose the cars. Worse i guess those poor who really should not have been duped will now have no car but have huge debt to pay shortfall and i guess rebate back.

Another wonderful Taksin scam to male his clan and hangers on richer and poor poorer and so under their total control

well what a surprise a lot where bought by rich people anyway and several of our friends bought for their children. In one case a friend bought 2 and his children doth even live in Thailand and al;though you cant sell for 5 years theirs plenty of ways around that.

Another pathetic Taksin scam

I know 2 people who were accused of sexually interfering with their own children and it also happened to me when one of my children in 80's had a mental breakdown I was interrogated by social workers and later the police but luckily for me the police came to the conclusion the idea had been put into my daughters head by social workers which actually is what happened. A few years later I asked my daughter why she said i had she answered they kept pressurising me and making suggestions and then latched onto fact my daughter climbed into our bed one night when 9 years old and i gave her a cuddle. THe other 2 people were not so lucky and one had his children taken from him for 18 months until he was totally cleared and the other had to live away from home for 2 years. Im not saying it does not happen it happens far to much but back in UK in 80's their was a kind of witch hunt going on and it seemed every social worker was convinced all fathers abuse their children. Their were many many other cases were later it was shown the idea was put into the head of accuser by social workers.

And yet they miss many real cases of awful abuse.

One has to be careful and i know before it happened to me even thought their is no smoke without fire when someone very close to my family was accused by his daughter.

Sadly it is far to common and very prevalent here and most of abusers abuse someone in their family.

In CR case i have no idea but i can quite imagine someone making it up or even having it put into their head.

One can only hope he engages in some contemplation. There is a lot of room for improvement in this shallow, greedy, power hungry man child. He was responsible for bringing a lot of instability to his country, for a very long time. He is a poor example of a leader. His list of personal qualities is probably very small. Being a monk could do this man a lot of good, if this is something he takes as seriously as destabilizing his nation, or extracting money from his home province of Surat Thani. 

he achieved what many said he could not getting rid of vile shins and i my thai wife family and many this are truly grateful to him

well done Suphet and thank you from me my this wife her family and many many Thais

and Taksin red shirt brainwashed idiots can just go and sulk because bo ho your hero lost and thank goodness  

not a chance and probably not next year either id give 1 million to one odds their wont be any election this year