Eric Loh

Listen to his great mass. More like great mess and he has not even got off his first block. Nicely scripted and inter-play by both actors. Suterp need an exit plan and Ahbisit need credibility. Put that together, Ahbisit gets an early election campaign and Suterp will still exit as a hero.

Hes just trying to keep himself in the press and seem like hes being productive, whilst the other day he avoided meeting with an excuse.

Just trying to put things on his terms to make it seem like hes willing when really hes anything but thats all ... usual fun and games

Your usual rubbish. He has kept a low profile (some say too low) in the last few months. Yet you accuse him of seeking media attention.

You know well the reason he didn't attend the meeting, it was a "prediction" by Yim who had accurately predicted an earlier deadly attack.

At least he has developed a blueprint that he's taking to the various parties. We'll see the details later.

Can you name a single person from the PTP side that has come up with a proposal that could solve the conflict?

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The solution expounded by PTP is an election. You don't need a fancy blueprint and play that to the gallery. Just take part, that is his solution.

Poor Ahbisit. No one really treating him serious. Got a lot to prove as his credibilty is near zero.

From your post immediately above:

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind.

Given your ignorance, of Thai society, culture, politics, government, I'll enlighten you here and now, for which I'm sure you'd be grateful because now you can have some notional awareness of things you hadn't ever known about Thailand: I am most pleased to educate you in this matter from your non-base of zero knowledge.

The following descriptions are sourced from Michael H Nelson of the Southeast Asia Research Center of the City University of Hong Kong, who was also a Visiting Scholar on the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, in his work, The Electoral Rules Concerning The House of Representatives in the 2007 Thai Constitution. The URL is posted at the conclusion of the post.

*** The informal socio-political networks (categorized as ammart) of leading bureaucrats, technocrats, and academics involved in politics and administration, who claim to possess superior knowledge as well as morality and thus consider themselves to have special rights in guiding the country's social, political and economic directions (this group is Thailand's version of Plato's true navigators).

*** The military as a self-interested and closed organization that also poses as the self-appointed guardian of national unity and survival, protector of the monarchy, and final arbiter about who is allowed to govern the country.

*** The politicians with their vast informal and exclusionary networks at the provincial, regional, and national levels (including their factions and political parties), who claim that they represent the people, and that constitutionally produced electoral success provides them with the democratic legitimacy to govern the country and dominate the other groups and models in terms of policy making.

Not the ammart, but indeed a core essence of Thailand are :

*** The people themselves, who are the supposed sovereign of the democratic political system. Their involvement in politics as citizens,voters, party members, target group of policies, civil society groups, protestors, and social movements has had a rather mixed record, but it has recently been put into focus by a substantial increase in politicization.

Mr Nelson also includes a description of the Thai monarchy which I omit from this post, not because there is anything controversial about it - it is a straightforward factual account by Mr Nelson - but because I personally prefer to exclude the mention or description of the monarchy from the contentious tones of this particular thread and topic.

http://www.academia.edu/2085351/Electoral_Rules_Concerning_the_House_of_Representatives_in_the_2007_Thai_Constitution

Can you stop with the personal attacks ? You call me ignorant ( again ) yet you have never met me and do not know anything about me. Why do you feel a need to look down on everyone who disagrees with you and be so constantly condescending ? Seems like you have some kind of inferiority complex. Get that chip off your shoulder.

As for your random boring ramblings, there is nothing in the least bit enlightening about any of it. All I hear is 'baa baa baa'. Go and preach to someone who wants to hear it and stop insulting my intelligence.

I as one of your TVF "bleeting sheeple" whose posts cause you to hear only "baa baa baa" am responding to your denials concerning the well established and well known Thai ammart.

(I actually don't know why I bother to say anything at all to you given that your only hear "baa baa baa" from posters whose views differ from those of your own. But I choose to reply to the core points of most of your posts so I reply in the ways that I do because of the offensive manner by which you present your posts. Your presentations are at best rude, crude, arrogant.)

Yes, I do apply the word ignorant to your views concerning the ammart. If it's the right word, as I believe it to be, then so be it. If it's the wrong word, as you believe it to be, you'd need to help me out here.

Do you deny the existence of the Thai ammart?

Or do you admit to the existence of the Thai ammart but deny the ammart are involved in Suthep's campaigns and programs?

Also, I'd be curious as to how you would characterize members of the NACC. What would you say about their socio-economic background (and their educations) and how they got to be appointed to the NACC?

And once again you are condescending and insulting. Calling me 'crude rude and arrogant' is in itself rude and arrogant. You are far more arrogant than I Can you make even one post directed at me without trying to insult me ? I know you dislike me because I keep pointing out your lies and spin to everyone, but come on,l et's keep things civil.

I do not deny Thailand has rich people and never did, and I do not deny a number of them are 'pulling strings' so to speak and never did. Thaksin is a prime example....

Thos whole business of the violent red shirts cries of 'Kill the ammart' because the red propaganda blames the rich Bangkokians for the ills of the country is extremely irritating. The 'reds' have a lot of so called 'ammart' too. This whole 'rich verses poor' stuff is utter rubbish. It is really 'Thaksin's red brainwashed verses everyone else'. Thaksin's enemies are so called 'ammart' so he has had the reds brainwashed to hate them because he hates them.

I wish more people would understand this.

Free your mind of spin and propaganda and see what is really going on.

Don't wish to get to get involved in your private debate but need to point out that the Bangkok Amart have the power and have used it to change government while the rich Northern Amart do not and only into making money. If coups are ills of Thailand, certainly the Bangkok Amarts are the culprits.

There are other millions who want her to stay. So who are you to made such a statement. That is why they have elections, in case you forgot.

Elections payed 500Baht a voter? In case you forgot.

Still the Dem can't win. Voters took their money and vote PT.

Is she Muslim? You have to convert if you wish to marry her.

Today, abhisit is meeting with Permanent Secretary for Justice and the Reform Now Group. Tomorrow, he meets the Supreme Commander, Thanasak Patimaprakorn for talks. He also plans to meet the Election Commission, the government, other political parties, as well as leaders of protest groups in a series of meetings over the next seven days.

Well that's a relief, obviously the seriously credible threat to his life has been averted................................overnight...............................after the meeting with the EC has finished..............................curious, that............................

Let's re-check the current situation. Ahbisit is trying to re-gain lost credibilities by trying to put forward a proposal, the chiefs of the armed forces agreed that election is the only solution and Suterp is saying April 30th is the final day. The rich corporates that support Suterp is reeling from months of loss profits and the amarts must be feeling that it is a lost cause. Days of Suterp are numbered and he will leave Lumpini with hs tail behind his legs. Bye and please don't come back Facist. You have ruin Thailand enough.

The sad thing is if you create enough hatred there are enough unbalanced people around to take up the cudgels. Why would they do this? Certainly for a personal feelgood factor and self-aggrandisement in the eyes of Thaksin, Thaksin's henchmen (and women) and off course fellow reds. There have been studies on why people would do this but the best of course is Reich's Mass Psychology of Fascism. We have seen an almost perfect example of how to build this type of movement over the past few years and Khun T seems to have got it off to a T (as they say). Very sad to see ignorant people supporting the anti-Abhisit line and even one farang of my unfortunate acquaintance praising the murderous tactics of extreme reds. Certyainly an undemocratic solution, I would say.

Switch "Suthep" for "Thaksin" in your little missive, and it would still sound exactly right.

Am I just totally naive? Or is a lifetime's involvement in human rights and the fringe of politics just been a waste of time? Are people really serious about Thaksin? Have people not understood the devastation that this man has heaped upon Thailand and the Thai Psyche? Do people not understand how sociopaths manipulate in order to satisfy their own thirst for power? Have people not followed international politics and seen how the Marcos, Amin, Saddam, Pinochet (and many many more) regimes have destroyed the lives of so many? Do people just turn their backs on history so that when another would-be dictator comes along they can humbly follow and not learn the lessons of history? I despair. I despair time and time again at the blind ignorance and the self-centred ideas that I see displayed in these forums as people are fooled into following Thaksin : someone whom Amnesty International has already lambasted as a serial human rights violator. Someone who is demonstrably running, or trying to, a hereditary dictatorship with classic attacks on anyone who opposes them. Is it not bleedin' obvious? How can anyone with even a tiny spark of humanity and understanding make the comment above. We all know who Suthep is. He's a stalking horse put out to try and overturn this idea Thaksin has of taking total, and I mean total, control of this country. I've never come here and said he's a great guy. But I have said that what he is doing is VITAL (shout!) for the future of Thailand. Then he can disappear as far as I am concerned. Shoot the messenger if you like. But don't under any circumstances shoot the main message.

Clearly you have very poor understanding of the political system of Thailand. Try looking up the meaning of Constitutional Monarchy. I don't even bother to stretch as far as dictorship; no Prime Minister except one could not even complete the full term. There are too many powerful forces for anyone even contemplate to serve another term less a dictator.

The threat of state enterprise support for Suthep's 'final push' has certainly forced the PM into her shell.

I wonder if we'll see the headline, "Protester's push bottles up Yingluck."

Picking up something from the PDRC daily stage foul diatribe? Classy as ever from the supposingly educated lot, at least that is what they claimed.

He has to keep his people motivated; judging from the dwindling supporters and funds and the fact that his guards are imploding. Trust me, 30th April will come and go as another day and he will still be in Lumpini Park. People who believe that he will surrender himself to the authority has too much sun. He will be gone before you can say Taksin.

There are other millions who want her to stay. So who are you to made such a statement. That is why they have elections, in case you forgot.

Actually is it you that seem to forget. Last election YL was below half of the majority of those who voted. It would have been even less if they voted at all in the south which was blocked. She lost her majority. So get your facts straight.

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Actually the PTP got 8 million votes, and that is about 15% of the country... The rest want their asses gone already.

Mango Bob seems to think that if a single red shirt is left supporting YL, then she has a right to stay.

The MAJORITY is what counts and that majority clearly want them gone.

SO GO!

Still trying hard to massage the numbers. What counts is who eventually is the government. Get it!!!

The only incident at the meeting was the mad monk and his followers demanding to put up their banner. Rest just an excuse for AV not attending, perhaps after receiving a phone reprimand from Uncle Suterp. Poor boy.

So what was the excuse for PTP leader Charupong not to attend? Or Banharn's group?

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Difference is both of them did not give a wimpy & attention seeking reason like Ahbisit. Moreover they announced that they not attending well before the meeting and not a last minute no show. Typical of Ahbisit and even Suterp to keep making double talk and promises.

Are there more Western gays than Asian gays?

The sooner an election can be held, the sooner she can quit. That's the only way out. A lot of us Thais won't tolerate a dubious reform process led by unelected elites who do not respect the rights of Thai citizens.

But will will allow a rigged election where Yingluck and her criminal cabinet who do not respect the rights of Thai citizens to say

we can do what we want

we can line our pockets with gold

we can treat rice farm how we like

because we achived a mandate from the people

fair or not does not matter, we did it remember

There are many ways to ensure a fair election without subverting democracy. Call on international observers? You PDRC folks can even volunteer to monitor the election.

Can Suthep's reform guarantee a fair election? Can Suthep's reform even guarantee that an election will occur? What recourse do people have if the reform process goes terribly wrong? Do we have to rally another group of "super people" to kick the reform committee out? Luckily I don't have to seriously consider these questions because Suthep will most likely fail.

Also, the government is not unaccountable like you said. Otherwise, it wouldn't have had to dissolve the parliament in the first place.

Famous words from Suterp in the 2010 election when he was deputy Prime Minister. Qoute " it's inappropriate to allow outside involvement in polls. We does not respect Westerners". Was he afraid be because the election was rigged? Moot point for those who complained about vote buying and rigged election.

The only incident at the meeting was the mad monk and his followers demanding to put up their banner. Rest just an excuse for AV not attending, perhaps after receiving a phone reprimand from Uncle Suterp. Poor boy.

Courts, indepenent and law enforcement agencies have their role to play to dispense fair and not corrupt judgement. Only then will law and rules will be respected.

An election is logic enough. Deal with it Somchai.

Khun Pornpinol, your point noted thank you. Please to see Thaivisa carries your concern. Now give a listen to the others and hope Thaivisa will be fair to publish that different view. Oh, an election would have settle the your sentiment on whether Yingluck should go. Now try asking why your side refuse an election.

Not defending the actions of Yingluck or PTP, but they do have a legitimate beef. The cases against her have been "prioritized" and rushed through quickly, while those against the Dems have been "slow walked" and put on a far back burner. The cases against Ying and PTP have developed in a matter of just a couple of months, while those against Dems have been sitting for over two years with no action.

Try a little "fair play" for everyone for once.

You must remember there are no double standards in Thailand

They have just asked for another 15 day extension ( 6 time)

and is accepted in Thailand the request has been approved

There are no double standard at all... Since when Suthep has been delaying his presence to hear about his charges?

There is no difference between the two cases... sadly.

Fell off the chair reading your post. You really serious what you post? I lost count Suterp postponed his court appearances citing that he is busy with his rally. Worse, the court grant him for that silly reason.

This lady suprises many for her fortitude and cool demeanor. Previous government could not handle the pressure and have to call on the army. She has stayed the course and not doing anything to reward the power snatchers. I hope she will continue to display courage till a new election is completed and a new government is set up.

Might happen when courts play politics at the expense of the other and people just had just about enough of this kind of double standard. Hope the courts realized this and don't over extend their limits beyond what they legally can. Court reform must be top of the agenda for next government.

It's not about the correct application of the law, it's about the end result, Chalerm quite explicitly said that if Yingluck is found guilty there will be blood, regardless of the legality of the veredict.

No he didn't he said there could be bloodshed if Yingluck is found guilty. Nothing about "there will be blood" or "regardless of the legality". You guys just write anything on here and expect to get away with it...........

Does it ever cross your mind how and why you come to spend so much time defending gangsters like Chalerm?

His threats are clear, the veredict must be "innocent" or else...

Does read like a veil threat. That is the street fighter style of Chalerm similar to Chuvit or Suterp. These are no gentlemen and will confront threat with even stronger threat. The past '06 military and '08 judiciary coups were able to connive pretty smoothly and without any confrontation. Things wouldnt be that easy this time with the UDD, politicians and academics providing the criticism and the deterrent against the group that continue to undermine democracy.

Is there a law against sister talking to her brother or vice versa. Get real, she gets advise from Taksin all the time. What's wrong with that? Ahbisit gets advise from Suterp who is on numerous arrest warrants. No double standard.

Might happen when courts play politics at the expense of the other and people just had just about enough of this kind of double standard. Hope the courts realized this and don't over extend their limits beyond what they legally can. Court reform must be top of the agenda for next government.