sandyf

Last Oct I applied about 8pm on a Thursday evening, thinking it would be the following week. Came about 10 pm on the Saturday, about 50 hours. The year before took 3 days but that had request for add info. They are quite good but it shouldn't be taken for granted.

I did acknowledge an alternative interpretation which you would have seen on my 2nd post. However I don't see why anyone would feel compelled to try and prove a worst case scenario, unless of course they had a vested interest. Taxation is a personal issue and I for one am not going to volunteer may state pension as taxable income unless someone with the authority to do so says otherwise. By the same token others are free to take any action they feel appropriate. if it came to pass I never had to pay any tax I wouldn't assume vindication, just that you don't have to be a Lemming.

It is against the rules to alter a post.

Further to my previous post I would suggest that the statement in your document "Also, no relief for State Pension or ‘trivial commutation lump sum’." may possibly be misinterpreted. The same statement appears against many other DTAs. According to this document, if UK has exclusive taxing rights then there is no relief. "The notes to the foreign pages (SA106) explains DTAs. Essentially, if a DTA gives exclusive taxing rights to the UK, no foreign tax is payable and so there is no question of relief." https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/calculating-foreign-tax-credit-relief-on-income-hs263-self-assessment-helpsheet/relief-for-foreign-tax-paid-2023-hs263 Comes back to the question, does the UK have exclusive taxing rights on the state pension? The wording of the DTA would suggest it has. I had "trivial commutation" at one time and if I remember right it was tax free.

Read the 5th post on this thread.

The state pension would be covered by the statement before the first OR. Unless of course you think it is not a pension or paid by the government.

Apologies, I missed the reference to the RH side in your previous post. Thanks, it is the first serious response on the thread rather than conjecture. You say it has appeared many times but first I have seen. The opening statement is a bit ambigous but on the basis your interpretation is right it may mean assessable income. At the end of the day I am not going to get particularly bothered until they actually come and ask for money. Could well be pushing up daisies by then.

The DTA states "Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State." The term "Any pension" appears fairly clear to me and I fail to understand why so many are looking for reasons why they should be taxed..

Your are wrong. The state pension is taxable, not at source but lumped with other income to determine liability. Why haven't you backed up this claim. " but as things stand it is considered Assessable Income in Thailand." Many seem to think they know the answers, but reluctant to substantiate.

Be careful posting, your post appears as a misquote. I accept it is easily done.

I never said it was a government pension, I said it was a pension paid by the government. Obviously you never bothered to read that. The DTA does not say " the pension must be paid for services rendered to the govt." That statement comes after the word "or".

Why not read the 2nd post on this thread.

This statement from your link is fairly clear, "It" being the state pension. " It is based on National Insurance contributions (NICs) and relief from UK income tax is available under the terms of many, but not all, double taxation treaties. " Why didn't you post the link that states Thailand is not one of the "many"?

You need to understand the difference between " not taxed at source" and "not taxable".

The statement "Any pension paid by the Contracting State" is followed by the word "or" Are we to take it that you are stating quite categorically that the UK state pension is not a pension or not paid by the state.

2nd post on this thread.

That is to do with the Social Security Act, not the DTA. Only a certain mentality would believe that when the DTA was drawn up that the UK would give up the right to be the sole beneficiary of the tax collected on the UK state pension.

The why's and wherefore's are irrelevant. The point was these allowances should be from the DWP budget, not NI.

Unless you can enlighten us with a valid reason on why the UK state pension would not be covered by the DTA, I will go by what the DTA actually says. I have seen many non UK nationals make various misinformed comments regarding the state pension, this being a common one. I just put it down to a lack of understanding.

The link was broken a long time ago when they introduced NI credits, people can get the state pension without ever having actually paid any NI. Something cannot be an earned entitlement when there has been no earnings. The NI contribution was originally intended for 2 purposes, state pension and national health. The government now also uses NI to pay for maternity allowance, job seekers allowance, support allowance and bereavement benefits. All part of the plan to turn it into general taxation, also helps the optics on the welfare budget. The real obstacle in getting rid of NI is classification. Certain benefits are only payable if you have paid the appropriate class of NI. The benefits would need to be restructured first. Hunt was only testing the water when he made the suggestion.

OK for some flights but not all countries will allow duty free to transit, even if it is sealed. The duty free shop is supposed to check the route from your boarding cards before selling, but not always. BKK sold me whisky that was then confiscated in Mumbai.

Indeed, in recent years BKK has almost eliminated the sale of everyday brands of Scotch with only the more expensive on the shelf. A few weeks back coming out of Gatwick I got 2 litres of Grouse Smokey Black for £24, nectar of the gods and about £6/litre cheaper than the supermarkets, Duty free can have it's moments.

They are talking about the small duty free shop between baggage reclaim and the arrivals hall, you would be checking out, not checking in. In all the flights I have had into Thailand never bought duty free on arrival, shop is usually empty so not surprised they are being closed.

That is not entirely true. Under the 1975 pension reforms NI credits were introduced and some are receiving the state pension based on credits rather than physical deductions from earnings. I seem to think the credits can also be transferred. For many years the government has been trying to change the rhetoric around the state pension to that of a welfare state benefit. It is some time now since they started to divert NI contributions into other benefits, trying to make out that NI is nothing more than additional taxation and looking to merge it into income tax. The state pension comes under the Social Security Act and the government uses that to suit the agenda.

Not quite sure what you are trying to say there. The state pension is a pension paid by the government and couldn't be seen in the same light as a government pension such as that paid to civil servents. The State Pension is funded directly from taxation, government pensions are funded from the budget of the appropriate government department. If however you are picking up on the fact that the government would prefer to call it a benefit then a different issue. It would really depend on who is trying to say what, but I think it is fairly clear, all my correspondence comes from "The Pension Service". At the end of the day it shouldn't really matter as tax has already been paid and the whole object of a DTA is to avoid tax being paid twice, being only taxable in the contracting state just simplifies things.