sambum

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

No. That's YOUR point. Others in this topic have said that the Embassy could do it and that there is nothing illegal in verifying your income from documents you show them.

Point. 

NO! What others in this topic have "said" is totally irrelevant. What the British Government and The British Embassy have said is totally relevant. After all, they are the the ones that are responsible for issuing the letters. From the Gov.UK website:-

"This letter has previously served as a supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals."

Have you ever heard of the Data Protection Act?

By the way, in this matter, I do not think that the British Embassy has behaved at all properly in this matter - apparently they have known about the forthcoming problem since MAY, and the first we hear about it is OCTOBER, and even then we get the news through a radio programme - nothing official until people start complaining.

3 minutes ago, cleverman said:

I don't know how else I can prove my income without the embassy letter.

Ha ha! You and many thousand others!

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

drink tea and wait, something has been blown up out of all proportion, there will inevitably be a reaction from TI and a compromise found, something along the lines of ''for those foreigners whose embassies no longer issue letters the following proof of income will be accepted......... It just isn't the first 'things to do' on their list, unseemly haste would mean loss of face.

I do so hope you are right! Maybe it will get higher up on their "to do" list when they get inundated by ex pats with no letters!

20 minutes ago, Farrows3399 said:

Then what about the European embassy letters that are being accepted, are they doing something illegal?? Actually the 3 embassys could have satisfied thai immigration with doing "quick verifications" OK I give up on the guessing game: Why do Thailand banks need capitalizing , bad loans ?

 

"Actually the 3 embassys could have satisfied thai immigration with doing "quick verifications"

"Actually", they can't - that's the point!

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Maybe.

 

There is no obligation for immigration to accept any form of proof of income.

Really? They have been accepting them for years without question - until now.

If you want to be pedantic about it, there is no obligation for Immigration to accept ANYTHING!!! 

On 11/5/2018 at 3:52 PM, Farrows3399 said:

There is too much paranoia and projection here. Ie, they want to get rid of westerners, the Chinese conspiracy (they are behind this)... But consider that Thai immigration has not  changed any requirement numbers whatsoever. All they did was make the very reasonable request that the embassys just verify Income. I'm sure Thai immigration is just as surprised at the reactions as everyone else. In other words their motive for this request was not to end income letters/combos

As it turns out "the very reasonable request" was to ask the Embassies to do something unlawful! They haven't changed any "requirement numbers" (?) but if the only alternative they are suggesting (up to now) is virtually "put your money in a Thai bank.

Wonder why that is? Hmm?

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I'll be hoping I can use mine in late June, but don't wait, make an appointment now.

As stated earlier - valid for 6 months, but 3 Embassies are stopping issuing them in the next couple of months - British Embassy are not accepting applications after 12th December.

On 11/5/2018 at 3:18 PM, BobBKK said:

That's not true. I know many American friends who 'swore' they had the income but didn't and laughed about it (how foolish the system was). I can't see what all the fuss is about. IF you have the income, and immigration accept that 65k into your account is proof what's issue?  IF immigration don't accept 65k into your Thai bank is proof then that is madness.

<removed>

Seriously, the Brits (that I know - and myself have to send copies of Bank Statements, and any other relevant documentation to substantiate our income. The Americans on the other hand (as far as I know) do not have to do this, and a "hand on heart" statement appears to be sufficient.

"IF you have the income, and immigration (TI) accept that 65k into your account is proof what's issue?" The issue is - as explained a few times previously - is that no one knows how long you need to have been putting 65k a month into your Thai bank account. Some say 3 months, the same length of time as the 800k requirement has to be seasoned, whilst others say it has to have been going in for 12 months, in which case, a lot of people will be unable to satisfy the requirements. (if as I quoted in an earlier post - your annual extension is due in say, July) Others say "an average of 65k per month".

What is needed - and has not yet been forthcoming, is a statement from TI clarifying the situation.

25 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Each embassy could require the applicant to provide the proof of their income before they sign the Statutory Declaration or it is not witnessed by them. Also it is not illegal for the embassy to obtain you financial records if you give them your permission to do so.

"Also it is not illegal for the embassy to obtain you financial records if you give them your permission to do so."

Shhhhh! It might mean somebody having to actually do something positive, and are the British Embassy not "downsizing" as they have sold their "home" for 42 million quid?

3 minutes ago, balo said:

Money talks. 

Poor poppet is only now able to bring herself to talk about it as she has probably just received her "scoop" money, and just wants the truth to be heard!  

7 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

BIMBO

 

Can't really judge her decision to travel alone cos we are all free to make mistakes. However, she should not put it to the media what happened to her because, in my opinion, most people won't have pity on her. Getting shiiiitttteee faced is a bad idea when abroad in a counbtry where you do not speak the native language. When I am away from home I simply don't drink. But that is just me.

"When I am away from home I simply don't drink."

So what's the point in being away from home/on holiday if you can't have a drink?

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

I disagree. 20+ years ago TI asked embassies to provide a letter with indication of your income. This year they remind embassies that the amount must be the real income, not an imaginary one. How is that "interpreting a different way" the initial request ?

I personally don't know of anyone who has provided "Imaginary" figures to the British Embassy in order to acquire their "Proof of Income" letter.

You say it yourself  "TI asked embassies to provide a letter with indication of your income" - not verification of your income, which is what they are now asking for. That is what I meant by "interpreting a different way" - one word can make a world of difference!

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I advise never to invest more here than one can afford to lose, but I still feel for those who did not expect TI to change the rules mid-stream.  Likewise, I feel sorry for those who got married in the West due to love and idealism, only to be robbed-blind by a court-system that actively-rewards divorce.

 

Expats here may have bought a house or condo, thinking they could stay based on their qualifying income, but now (perhaps) they can not.  In the past, those on existing retirement extension-schemes were "grandfathered" in - but this time?   Suddenly "gross income" has possibly become "imported-net" - and we don't even know which income-streams may qualify. 

"those who got married in the West due to love and idealism, only to be robbed-blind by a court-system that actively-rewards divorce." Me! me! (Twice!) 

"those who did not expect TI to change the rules mid-stream" Once again, "Me!"

And it would be nice to have some statement from TI (Thai Immigration) regarding alternative ways to prove income that are acceptable to them rather than the "money in a Thai bank" option.

9 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

You do not seem to understand what I mean and are talking about. For me the rules regarding how you show income is totally irrelevant. What I am talking about is the reckless risks so many people are taking by moving to another country without having enough saving for a rainy day. In my opinion you just can´t move to another country without having the minimum of 1M baht or equivalent in other currency.

As of now Thai immigration have not changed anything. 3 major embassies have stopped issuing income letters, due to that they now has the legal pressure to guarantee that the amount written on them are true. They can´t or will not do that. Blame your embassies, and not the Thai Immigration.

 

Yet nothing is changed and there are no official statement of any changes or Immigration. I believe they will sort it out to the best. Otherwise it´s just to show the money for the ones who wish to stay. Can sound hard, but it´s the fact.

You have one way of looking at it, I have another. You won´t change, and I won´t change. Let´s leave it with that.

That's the most sensible thing to do.

However, I feel that I must reply to a couple of your points before "calling it a day" 

The topic is entitled "Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification" due to the fact that Thai Immigration are now insisting that the Embassies now check the financial statements made in order to acquire the letter - something they can not legally do. So again, the fact that Immigration have "moved the goalposts" (not changing the rules, by the way - just the way that they are interpreting them) is the main cause of the problem here. They have had the same rules for years and we have been living and abiding by them for years, but now they are interpreting them a different way - not the Embassies' fault, or me or my neighbours' fault.

And it is not about the rights or wrongs of having money saved up for a rainy day - that is a totally different subject, and a choice that is up to the individual concerned as to what he/she is willing or financially able to do. By the way, I agree that it is a sensible thing to do, but sometimes personal circumstances do not allow us to do the sensible thing.

However, as you said earlier, I think we must agree to differ on a few things before things get out of hand, so have a nice day!

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Because so-called proof of incomes can be falsified and Thai immigration are now insisting on applicants producing proof of incomes certified by their embassies for credibility.

 

What the embassies are saying; is that they are not prepared to investigate the sources of incomes and therefore will not hold the responsibility of certifying applicants incomes for these reasons. They also refuse to participate in providing a service that could involve being accomplices to fraud if the proof of incomes have been falsified.

 

Does this answer your question?

Might be a good idea to copy the above answer and put it in your "Drafts" folder for future reference - someone is bound to ask the same question again!!!

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Most of us don't have wives from the Philippines.  I think you may have forgotten that.  My Thai wife and GF have no wish to move to America. 

1 Who mentioned the Philippines?

2 Who mentioned America?

3 You might have trouble getting your wife AND GF visas anyway!

36 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Plus you usually find that they are not that well off as they claim they are. We have friends and one of them has this type of attitude but it was funny when his wife came to borrow some money for him to get his car fixed because he did not have any

Yes indeed! I know a few like that - Thais as well as farangs, and they usually get their comeuppance sooner or later. My ex Thai landlord was the same, and had to send his wife round (Not him - "face" thing!)to ask for the rent early because he couldn't pay the electric bill!

6 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

I said a good plan. That is the one that is solid and not depend on small changes.

"small changes"? I would hardly call the withdrawal of "Proof of Income letters" small changes when it has such a drastic effect on so many people's lives!

7 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

Only 3 million? That´s barely enough to pay for a simple operation at a descent hospital.

Barely surviving? Bull poo!

18 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

No, just barely surviving.

Bull poo! You've been TELLING people to just put 800k in a bank to get their retirement extension as if it's the easiest thing in the world to do. In my neck of the woods back in the UK you would be a farmer - never seen a poor one, but they'll never admit to doing OK, just use words like yours!

3 hours ago, The Truth said:

Thailand has been a haven for low income foreigners for decades and now, it seems, it's had enough and decided it's time to thin the herd. A lot of these people who've been gaming the system get sick and place an unfair burden on the state hospitals who generally won't turn them away.

Guys with a decent income can afford insurance or at least they can put away a bit of money aside for emergencies. Guys living on a subsistence income can't. 

Lot to learn!