sambum

37 minutes ago, britishrepublican said:

I was merely responding to someone else's post.

 

Sometimes the truth is the most offensive.

"I was merely responding to someone else's post"

Of course you were! One mention of Brexit and you come out all guns blazing at great length  with your anti Labour rhetoric. Stick to the lack of Chinese in Chiang Mai please!

47 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

You are giving power to thoughts by believing the mind again. Where does it say that the IO is preparing to expel people ? Who changed the status quo ? the 4 embassies who threw a hissy fit over the word 'verify', if that was so important then the IO's would refuse all embassy letters immediately, other embassies seem unconcerned and continue to issue letters 'certifying' documents, many saying they will continue doing so without being chastised by TI. Stop the panic, in a few months time this will be sorted.

I believe (and hope!) so!

20 minutes ago, Robins said:

I'm respectful to them while I'm there, wear a dress shirt and dress pants and generally think quite highly of them  Unfortunately TIT and every office and sometimes each employee makes up his or her own rules, and unlike America there are no avenues for appeal or recourse if you are refused.  

Pattaya in particular (not surprisingly) is a somewhat unfriendly and unpredictable office.  The last couple of years they've had some obnoxious power crazed person of questionable gender who goes out of his or her way to be as rude and unreasonable as possible.  The older Officer who actually approves the extensions is quite reasonable and has been there for years. 

I think every TI office has one of the former!

53 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Another terrible Brit related story.

What is happening to that country and its people??

Sounds just horrible....

TV journalists are happening to "that country". They just love to point out that Brits are involved in any wrongdoing - other nationalities quite often just get described as "farangs" or "foreigners". 

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

Thailand spent 50 years building up a strong brand in the West as an idyllic tourist destination, but the junta turned against Western tourism because Western governments (most notably John Kerry as US Secretary of State) gently asked about when the promised election would be, causing them to lose face.

The Chinese government ask no such questions and are happy to loan the money for the sort of major infrastructural projects that will allow the generals to keep socking away billions in their Swiss bank accounts for as long as they can cling onto power. (It is worth noting that new Malaysian government has rejected all such Chinese schemes as being a terrible deal that would leave their people with debt and other problems for decades to come).

Part of the necessary narrative was that China is the future, while the West is over, we don't need them, their tourists are low-quality, they have been short-changing Thailand for decades. The worst offenders were the farangs who had been visiting most often and who had the deepest ties to Thailand. That was why they made visas so much tougher and introduced ridiculous hurdles such as having to carry 20K in cash. The underlying message was "On the whole, we'd rather you didn't come here".

The familiar old Western tourism was not as exciting as the dizzying rise in Chinese tourism, mainly propelled by an (at the time) attractive exchange rate, a bubble economy in China, and the impact of Lost in Thailand, which became the highest grossing movie of all time in China when it was released in 2012. That made the idea of visiting Thailand fashionable, but fashions fade over time.

The Chinese will continue to come in large numbers, that is not going to change, and the also potentially huge wave of Indian tourists has not really even started yet, but no number of emerging countries are ever going to become a permanent replacement for the deeply entrenched Western tourism that the junta decided to piss away. We saw this with the Russians, with the Thai government making all sorts of specials deals such as eliminating airport taxes for Russian planes, and in they flooded for a few years, but now where are they?

If the junta do reduce Tourist Visa red-tape to the pre-junta levels, as rumored, that would indicate a realization, at some level, that they made a mistake, but the damage is already done and will take many years to reverse. Enough people are now aware of the possibility of being refused entry for some trivial reason, obliterating the previous image of Thailand as being "sabai sabai", a tropical idyll where you didn't have to deal with the red-tape of life at home.

Thailand is still, of course, a fine vacation destination in many ways, but it is no longer as easy to recommend as it once was. It has all been very foolish, entirely unnecessary, and very sad when you consider the amount of regular money that has been taken away from the parts of Thai society who needed it most - who, now, will pay the vet bills for all those sick buffalos? 

"...........the damage is already done and will take many years to reverse"

And such is the way of the world! I remember a certain area where I used to live that had 4 or 5 Working Men's Clubs all within a couple of hundred yards of each other. In spite of the Clubs having the same standard of entertainment from week to week, one was always doing much better than the others until they had an act not turn up. or a bad comedian etc, and the next week the bulk of the clientele had moved on to one of the other Clubs, and it took many years for the punters to return to their original haunt.

One can make many similar analogies, but the message is clear - the bubble can burst at any time, so there's no need for you to stick a pin in it yourself! Which is exactly what is happening here, and the clientele/tourists will soon find another Club/Country to take their entrance fee and sell them drink if you don't look after them!

"She was now forced to offer rooms by the month at discounts". 

Welcome to business philosophy!

1 hour ago, Easy Come Easy Go said:

Not necessarily the police, but it's been proven by leaks that the NSA can look into you at any given moment, but also the CIA and other entities can listen in to smartphone MICs and cameras even when the devices have been turned off. That is no theory but a proven truth. I'm not American, and all of the entities above are in the US, but the technology and systems are there for global organisations to be able to do it if they so wish 

"can listen in to smartphone MICs and cameras even when the devices have been turned off"

So if there's no "action" on the device, what are they listening to?

1 hour ago, irishken said:

Why the hell are they covering her face. 

Again it seems strange, who and when they decide to show someones face.

Guilty until proved innocent?

4 minutes ago, dabhand said:

Thanks for your comment which just reinforces my view that the BE has acted abominably on this issue. I am in receipt of the BE income letter and have applied via email submission of the required documents. So my email details are on file, but absolute silence from any concerned party to keep their 'affected customers' advised of this very important, possibly life changing, issue.

 

Not all make the effort to sign up for the BE email alerts (guilty m'lud) when they really should. But others may simply be unable to set this up due to personal circumstances. They are the ones who need much better support from the BE than is being given.

 

Yes, as you mentioned, the extent of the delay in advising the 'affected customers' is only now becoming clearer. Even less excuse for not employing a local temp to set up an info alert direct to those known to be affected and then sending off at the point when the decision was broadcast. This should have been high on their list of 'to do's'. But, obviously not........

Re the email alerts, they managed to send me one on 15 October giving me some travel advice! (And I've been living here for more than 10 years!)

3 hours ago, vinegarbase said:

How did the officers not get a promotion for bringing more money into the Kingdom? It's just more revenue from foreign tourists right? The additional benefit that one less foreigner to enter the country again so less foreigners too! Dual benefit. 

Your post is a bit contradictory! 

More money into the Kingdom of BP's (Back Pockets!)

One less foreigner to fleece, and hence less foreigners to fleece too!

But I do get the drift of what you are trying to say!

3 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

I understand how you feel but a word of caution is in order. 

 

In any Western country I'd suggest you go "full steam ahead" with your complaint.

 

Thailand  isn't a Western country so I think you would be well served to give pause to your intentions.

 

You have little chance to win a battle with immigration or any particular officer in  the immigration office.

 

Better to "turn the other cheek" and walk away while there's  still time.

 

Good luck..

 

 

 

From Wallanders earlier post #7 :-

"we are leaving Thailand next year so this is last extension anyway"

 So I would assume that he is intending to wait until he is out of the country anyway, and consequently any complaint will probably get fired straight into the garbage bin as any ensuing publicity would only be damaging Thailand's "tourist friendly" reputation - they are making it abundantly clear that ex pats are of little consequence!

5 hours ago, dabhand said:

Concerning the BE letter to New beginnings and, in particular, the comment about ensuring that affected customers are made aware of the Income Letter changes.

Yes, updating the various social network sources (including TV and the like) is fine and dandy but even if only one of their 3,000 'affected customers' is not so connected it will be a 100% fail for that individual.

 

Given that the BE has details of the 3,000 (either email or, as a minimum, addresses) why have they not made the effort to make direct contact with every one they know is likely to require this particular service in the future. The BE has had upwards of six months to organise such an info shot and for this not to happen is beyond the pale.

 

It would be absolutely no surprise if reports come through in the early part of next year of a few 'affected customers' being at their wits end because they were not aware of such changes. Particularly the more elderly individuals who are not particularly internet literate and are set up to contact the BE shortly before their extension expires, because that is always how they have done it.

 

Will the BE really care if such an event happens? Will they ****!!

I have signed up to receive the regular "email alerts" that are mentioned, and in one communication regard this letter fiasco, they made reference to a previous communication ("further to our letter of ........ 2018...... ") I received no such letter, and in spite of sending emails to the Consular Section, and directly to the Ambassador himself in mid October, have had no reply except the bog standard acknowledgement receipt of my email. So I suppose "New Beginnings" should be grateful for his reply!

Incidentally, I thought that the Embassy (BE) had known about this problem since May 2018 - according to the letter there have been discussions about it since FEBRUARY 2018, even more reason for agreeing with your final sentence:-

"Will the BE really care if such an event happens? Will they ****!!"

And being more than a trifle sceptical about:-

"in particular, the comment about ensuring that affected customers are made aware of the Income Letter changes."

15 minutes ago, pattayadgw said:

Did I just see the word "SACKED".... what's happened to the"inactive post"?  maybe the city is now full! ????

Sorry - I've just seen this post after I posted mine!

Wow! The "Inactive Posts Office" must finally be full to capacity!

1 hour ago, Torrens54 said:

In 30+ years of visiting and/or living in Thailand I have never been asked by Police for, let alone pressured to show my Passport. (Once when I jumped a Red Light, a very Courteous Cop who pulled me up, asked to see and was shown my Thai MDL.)

Sure, at Airports, Immigration, Hotels etc, you expect to present your Passport and other I.D., as may be required.

 

Even the literally HUNDREDS of Media and Travel Industry people I have brought to Thailand and travelled extensively with, have NEVER been given a Hard Time by ANY OFFICIALS.

 

one time, departing from Phuket for Australia with a TV Crew, a Customs Officer was needed to “Sign Out” our Camera Gear.

It was early in the morning and No one was available to Sign the All- Important Customs Document.  

 

However, the problem was quickly resolved when I produced a Photograph of me and the Minister For Tourism, having lunch at one of his Restaurants.

I suggested I should phone him at his home to sort, out the matter. Within minutes, a Customs man showed-up with Stamp In Hand and “Cleared the Equipment.”

 

Leads me to wonder if those who delight in having a Whinge, “Dream Up” these “sutuations.” Get your Hand Off It Fellas !

Reason for Edit - Correcting Typos

Ooops! - missed one - "sutuations" ("situations"?) 

11 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Phuket Immigration has confirmed there is no need for foreigners to carry their passports at all times, despite the ongoing ‘Operation X-Ray Outlaw Foreigner’ crackdown on illegal foreigners netting 300 foreigners in Phuket last month alone..."

 

IF, repeat IF, there was confidence that this is the proverbial 'be all and end all', final word on the matter, it would be great.

 

However, who knows how an individual IO or policeman will react?

 

Hey Big Joke! Why don't YOU deliver a definitive, written, nation-wide statement on the matter? Clear it up for all time? I think I would speak for all if I said that would be both welcomed and appreciated.

 

 

"However, who knows how an individual IO or policeman will react?"

This is one of the big problems in Thailand - why is the law not universal in all Police Stations Departments and Immigration Offices up and down the country.

As it stands, you do not need to carry your passport at all times in Phuket, but what about the rest of the country?

Why for instance, when applying for an annual extension of visa does one Immigration Office require a Google map showing grid locations of your house, PLUS a hand drawn map? (Also, copy of housebook,  copy of rental agreement, and contact details of landlord/landlady which even has to provided if the details are exactly the same as the previous year!)

"Immigration chief Maj-Gen Surachate "Big Joke" Hakparn was pictured on the IB site on a board related to the crime but not mentioned as having played a role in the arrests on this occasion."

Then why is his photo there?

Actually, he does seem to be getting results in a few areas (pun intended!) but the number of photos from different locations he is in makes one think of him as some kind of "Time Traveller"! 

P.S. Is he still "Acting" Immigration Chief?

34 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Up until now only 4 embassies have stopped issuing the letters, it may be more later but let us stick to the facts as they are at the moment. I can see further acceptance of the letters as long as they are issued, for citizens of countries who no longer receive letters different proof of income will be needed. We know nothing at the moment but I am sure TI is looking at alternatives, with the exception of Denmark there is still time.

"And TI certainly knows the problems now arising: The solid expat, who has been using the embassy letter income route, no longer can go that route (because he's Danish, or who finds out too late the Brit, US, and AUS embassies will no longer issue the income letter)." 

"I'm sure the reason TI has been so slow with new implementation rulings is because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate, "

I was referring to the fact that it would be rather difficult for the ex pats who acquired their letters from the Embassies mentioned in the post! 

"Where have all the Chinese gone? Thai media say TAT in denial about tourism numbers in Pattaya"

And running side by side to this "top story"  - in the next "top story" box:-

Chinese tourists still number one visitors to Phuket

.....................“On the other hand, Chinese tourists who are visiting Phuket by themselves, called FIT groups (Free and Independent Travellers), has not decreased. They are continuing to visit Phuket in high numbers.:

The Deputy Director of the Phuket Tourism Authority of Thailand, Montri Manator obviously knows the answer!



"Thai media say TAT in denial about tourism numbers in Pattaya"

Nooo! Really? TAT in denial about tourist figures going DOWN?

19 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Morgandave said:

"I think it fair so say that when the dust settles, there will be a way to prove income without an embassy letter. "

 

Of course. Not necessarily income earned (and kept abroad), but cash flow coming into Thailand.

 

And TI certainly knows the problems now arising: The solid expat, who has been using the embassy letter income route, no longer can go that route (because he's Danish, or who finds out too late the Brit, US, and AUS embassies will no longer issue the income letter). And, he no longer has time to season 800k (even if he had it) before renewal time.

Certainly TI will throw a bone to these folks, as most are the type Thailand wants to keep here -- there's plenty of time to weed out the phonies after the phase in period.

 

And the phase in period? Heck, waive the 3 month seasoning period. Or, just show you now have a Thai bank account, with at least one 65k deposit in the month prior to renewal. This will calm the waters

 

Then, 12 months later, at your next renewal time, the rubber hits the road: Either the 800k for 3 months, or a passbook that shows deposits averaging 65k for 12 months. Or some combo of the above.

 

I'm sure the reason TI has been so slow with new implementation rulings is because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate, e.g. average 30k per month into Thai account, plus evidence of income abroad).

 

Who knows. We're all blowing smoke on this thread. But I think it's safe to say: Money in the bank in Thailand, in some form, is in our future.

"because they're investigating whether or not the old embassy letter could/should be part of the equation (well, maybe not  -- maybe too hard to integrate,"

Yes - definitely too hard  to integrate as they won't be issuing them any more!

6 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Quote:- "wanted to stop help from tubes for breathing and feeding". Why not just remove these rather than go to such macabre efforts to end his life. RIP.

Would be a bit like drowning yourself slowly - not a nice way to go. And yes  - R.I.P. 

On 11/13/2018 at 11:00 AM, Rugon said:

Compassion is a virtue not common for many on this thread. Try going to a local temple and asking a monk about how you  develop "kwam metta".

Erm - No thanks! It looks a bit like "turning the other cheek" to me - a quote from that other well known book of fairy stories!

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

A lot of people seem to be blaming the British Embassy for this problem.  They have simply been asked to officially certify that someone has the required income.  They cannot do that and have had to advise Thai Immigration of that fact.

 

People can argue and blame all they like - they are barking up the wrong tree.  What is required is a statement from Thai Immigration, outlining exactly what they will and will not accept as proof of income. What the British Embassy have done wrong is to state that having the required income in a Thai bank account will satisfy the Thai authorities.  Quite where they have got that from, I know not but such information needs to come from Thai Immigration, not the British Embassy.  However, the British Embassy SHOULD be best placed to press for official Thai guidance as I would hope, the British Ambassador has contacts in the right places.  However, getting them to do anything may not be that easy.

 

The British Embassy in Thailand cannot influence Thai regulations but I believe this should be treated as a consular matter and one in which consular representations should be made to the Thai authorities.

 

I very much doubt that writing to or petitioning the British Embassy will get any movement, they must be fully aware of the situation but don't appear to give a toss.  I would suggest that those Brits affected by this get in touch with the MP of their last UK constituency or and probably better, get in touch with the Foreign & Commonweath Office. As far as I know, they are responsible for embassies abroad and should be able to prod the British Embassy Bangkok into action.

 

Perhaps the best way would be to try and get someone from a UK news agency to publicise the matter which would pressure the UK government or the British Embassy, Bangkok to take action.  The BBC's Jonathan Head lives in Bangkok and may be a good start.

 

I would get your skates on though - there is now less than a month to go before the Embassy stops accepting applications for an income letter.  Perhaps you would be better expending energy in the right area instead of spending hours complaining about the situation on an internet forum?

"What the British Embassy have done wrong is to state that having the required income in a Thai bank account will satisfy the Thai authorities. "

That option has always been there - just not a very popular one!