richard_smith237

No - you are.... +1 if you are agree... not that agreement matters, its just a discussion and any extra form of agreement doesn't make an issue right or wrong... Nevertheless - this wanna-be-expert brings is library textbook theory into these discussion, and like any wannabe civil servant fails to accomodate reality.... in this case the reality of society and how such issues can be handled effectively in Thailand with local knowledge and preexisting local networks of vermin control. He has his fingers dancing on the keyboard of attempted logic... but is let down by his mind two stepping a tango onto the toes of broken text-book theory...

100% If I dont see a rider in the road and drive into him - its 100% my fault, whatever my excuse, given a very few acceptions (last second swerve or pulling out of a side street etc)... I rode in Bangkok a few times: - I used to walk the bike across to Benjakiti and race around there ride quickly in fast pelatons - but it was clearly too dangerous ( so stopped). - I rode a couple of times to the port and caught the ferry across - nice rides, but just fun, thats it - on one of them I was knocked off the bike by a parking motorcyclsist, who cut me off, stopped and trapped, me (my front wheel was inside his rear wheel and he slammed on his brakes as if I wasn't there).... accident (stupidity) they were very helpful, he never meant to do that. - Riding up to Polo soccer Along the Canal... Got to to the road area near Ruam Rudee - every motorcyclist wanted to kill me, or thats what it felt like - a few nearly knocked me off as if I wasn't there. After that I stopped - used the sky-lane... But after 3 laps I can hardly drive back my legs are too tired... and getting there and getting back in a PITA in the traffic.

There is always a cloud with a sliver lining... Socialism has its wonders... Someone needs to be employed to pick up the all the dog-shyte the released canines have slopped around the cities, towns and countryside..... Job Creation - we could call it 'Paw Patrol'... or just 'Paw Potty'... Then charge inflated rates for rabies vaccinations .. y'know, just incase the dog that cost you your severed finger was not vacated... Then have 'dog free parks'... Guards on every gate to catch the dogs,.... job creation, thats involves more guards than we can throw a candycrushing-<deleted>ty-stick at.... Dog free beaches... easy that one... Slip em a bottle 'black cock' and they dog-fighting bravod kicks in sometime around 12.... ( midday or midnight, its unknown - so staggered delivery ensures round the cock (sorry) clock coverage... and may be even breakfast for the late night crew out of sight of offended AM shoppers.

More importantly so that no unnecessary suffering of dogs need happen over the next 20 years... (as it been well over 20 years since this issue started being a major issue).. So... 8.5 million stray dogs in Thailand over 20 years... some of them have better lives than others, say what, 30% are looked after? Thats 120 Million suffering dogs..... and I'm sure the amount of suffering dogs my not be as high as 70% with 30% being well looked after, so say there only 10% of those dogs who would suffer and people become a lot more kind and look after the 90%... Thats 17 Million dogs unnecessary suffering because their birth could have been controlled / prevented. Aggregate Stats - aggregate approach,... it doesn't tell the whole set of stories - but what is shown is that a lot of dogs are potentially suffering and when they do, the humans around them suffer to - and its all unnecessary and preventable if someone deals with an unpopular issue sooner rather than later (noting sooner was over 20 yeas ago where tik-tik was a wall, snap-chat earned a clip around the ear and facebook didn't ban anything outside its pretty walled garden of ideas'...

The Netherlands is the first country in the world without stray dogs, and has achieved this through a combination of programs and initiatives: without culling. CNVR (Collect, Neuter, Vaccinate, and Return) The GPD per capita of The Netherlands is 7.25x less more than that of Thailand... (hopefully that needs no further explanation as to why that matters in this context). Without sufficient funding, the same achievements cannot be realised in Thailand. ... And... what are you going to do.... Return 8.5 Million Stray dogs back to the streets of Thailand after they are collected (captured), Neutered & Vaccinated ? C (Cull) / N (Neutralise) / V (Verminate) / R (Retire or Reave if you prefer !) R (Return)... How will you (authorities) know to return what dogs to what neighbourhoods ????.... 8.5 million dogs fighting in their wrong territories anyone ?... ok, not the full 8.5 as they are not all alpha and terrotorial dominant etc... so what 10% of that.. its still mayhem - and they'll still live another 10 years or so, to continue biting, attacking etc... There are people staring on the streets of Thailand... Give them a $ for a dead Dog... cheapest solution. They'll all be out of a job in two weeks... but the authorities will save money on rabies vaccinations... and those '$ dog hunters' have something to go with or return to their plastic collections. Who wants to see carts of dead dogs being carted off ??? no one... Do it at night.... like they used to. Again - living in a civilised world means tough decisions. In many of the area's I'm in Pick pockets get the shyte kicked out of them when caught (either by the victim or the police)... its only wokeness that allows such to continue in 'more developed nations' which may be taking a step back in reality of the humanity we live within... too much digressoin there, but the point is to highlight softness doesn't always help us... ... decisions are made against dichotomy, right counters wrong but for the right reasons... its a tough world... not pretty, not black and write and there's no need for it to be perfect - but aim for a generally safe environment - thats a basic human right IMO and worth more than the right of an animal... but only because I'm human and want my family protected.

Indeed... especially if a 'new person' now profits from the 'funding' of this 'new'... 'revamped' digital wallet scheme... And who better than to draw in the those 'willing' to donate than the puppeteer himself... .... Once the Auntie's are home... ... the only thing I find tricky to predict is what policy are they going to use to vote buy in their next set of elections ?... How to make people forget about - new car scheme, rice scheme, iPad for every school child, and of course, this Digitial wallet which.... 'mark my words' will become so difficult to actually use only very few will benefit... i.e. Sure... everyone gets a digital 10,000 baht... But it will only work though an app which has to be purchased and usage is taxed at 20% with an over-draft facility with interest at the highest legal rates... winner winner...

I think its everyone who needs to open their eyes... Cyclists, Drivers, Authorities... When we have a sitation where there exists significant speed and size differential between road users then inertia and mass such that the inattentive will not have time to react. Is road design and visibility an issue ? Is speed an issue ? Is driver training an issue ? (all of the above). Example: Rounding a blind bend in the UK a few weeks back to end up on the back wheel of a cyclist... I was careful, aware something could have been around that blind bend and was able 'not to hit the cyclist' (or whatever else could have been there)... Why ?... driver training ??? ... Perhaps, but I haven't been driver trained for 30 years... so why wasn't I tearing around that corner at the legal road speed ??.... The answer I fear, is fear... fear of hitting someone and behind held accountable - and therein lies the issue - there are people on the roads to whom this fear either cannot be understood because they are simply dumb, or they are both arrogant and reckless and think it wont happen to them.. ... and the cyclists when using the road have to take an element of the 'arrogant and reckless and think it won't happen to them' because why else would they ride on roads where two tonne items can speed past them at 60 kmh ?... particularly Thai roads ??? Drivers of course at fault - but roads were never meant for such speed differentials... 80kg of cyclists at 30kmh and 2 tonne of metal at 60kmh... But what can you do in a country where the police ride helmetless down a pavement / sidewalk ?

Was it your FiL who broke into your house, burned down your unit and threatened you with a shotgun ???... Interested in the shotgun story !!... the first time I met my 'future FiL'... a gun was involved... or rather, he was behaving normally and placed the gun down on the side without even so much as a second thought.... I on the other hand went through hours of 'whatifery' which realistically lasted about 5 seconds.... before realising its no big deal - this is another decent human being.

I suspect this 'model' is the cause of many incidents here.... drivers rushing to keep up with demand... Of course, the drivers are at fault, but ultimately the owners and management of such companies are accountable for having such policies in the first place. Safety First ???... Bo!!ox... only when safety doesn't eat into profit.

You mean private transport; airport AOT cars / hotel transport etc ? (white on green background) Or... Green writing on white background... i.e. the delivery trucks, usually a company owned, 2 door pickup - refrigerated box on the back, or loaded up - and driven by a lunatic... ??

I tend to agree.... Though wouldn't want people walking around with guns shooting at what they think are dogs.... hence, catch and cull (sorry, euthanise)... And if sufficient funds available, neuter, vaccinate and 'home'.... **(CNVR is wrong... CNVHE - should be the policy - 'catch - Neuter - Vaccinate - Home or Euthanase'.... ... though, that would never pass as softies can't allow the euthanise option as they lack reality and fail to see that no one wants to home and old street dog... ...So, If public funds are available, home in a foundation where the neutered dogs can live out their days.... ... But... that can't be the case for millions of animals - so there can only be one practical situation, but for a lucky few who can be homed via foundations. Another point: A collar could have 'fallen off'... but I suspect such a brutal policy would make 'caring owners' certain that their dog cannot get out into public areas... and, if someones dog did get out into pubic area's without a collar, well, I guess the owners were not that caring anyway.

He's an admitted drink driver who's looking to victim blame or at least blame 'fate' in road traffic 'incidents' as that justifies the internal rhetoric that 'when he does kill someoene while driving drunk' it would have been 'an accident due to fate' or their own fault even if he were fully sober...

Agreed.. It is about time that the penalties are significantly greater than they are... Lives are lost through carelessness while others want to downplay the seriousness of the actions leading up to so many road fatalities.... When hypothesising over the exact cause of such an incident there are little if any redeeming possibilities to side with the driver... though some just think such behavior is down to an accident... fate perhaps... Strange how far fewer of these accidents occur in nations with stronger penalties for compromising traffic laws. That said: on a recent trip to the UK I was astonished to see how many drivers are still using their phones while driving.

The word accident is used way too often to escape accountability - Perhaps you would use the word accident when drink driving and hitting a pedestrian because there was 'no intent to kill'... There are very few genuine accidents around - usually someone is at fault for doing something wrong, failing to pay attention, using their phone etc, not noticing a cyclist in front of them because they were easily distracted and drunk etc... There could have been 10 million other 'incidents'.. none of that removes blame from a truck driver who hit a stationary motorcyclist waiting at traffic lights. Stopping and 'assisting with enquiries' has nothing to do with fault or blame. Where does it mention the young woman was 'dragged down the road under a ten wheeler gas truck' ???... ... The article does mention 'She had been hit by the truck, resulting in deadly head injuries that led to her death on the spot' ... nothing about being dragged down the road, perhaps you think that because the truck is reported to have 'stopped 20m down the road'... 17 years old... but agree - too young to die.

Does it matter whether its a Thai or foreign cyclist ??? They get mowed down by: ... idiots on their phones who think they can manage their road attention while texting. ... idiots speeding. ... idiots on meth. ... idiots running red lights. ... idiots, well, being idiots and not paying attention. and finally... ... idiots who think they can handle their booze and drive while under the influence.

There are no stray dogs in the Netherlands. Go figure ..... Perfect in a smaller country with far greater public funds.... If Thailand could achieve the same results here that the netherlands acheived, it would have done so already.... It just can't afford to... ... Well, that, and those in positions of decision making power can't be bothered because their focus is on syphoning off public funds or the issue is out of mind as they are never walking anywhere anyway !

Should have used the term 'wanna-be-expert' but figured you'd at least identify with the sarcasm... You often miss the cultural nuances of an issue and quote textbook ideology which when faced with realism is quickly left wanting. Where specifically dogs are concerned 'Culling'... or removing and housing / euthanising... its Same thing.... ... Removing the roaming canine population from the streets.... You are narrow mindedly viewing 'culling' as it is with rats or vermin population in rural area's where they are pests etc.. which is not the same as dealing with the dog issue in cities. Use whichever terms you are comfortable with - the issue needs to be dealt with - dogs need to be taken off the streets and removed from areas where they can attack humans. I don't care how that is done... but others do, because they are dog lovers... fair enough - but they lack the realism of the issue. For the near and long term dogs roaming the streets of cities is an issue - and that needs resolution. The UK had plenty of 'roaming dogs'.. stray dogs and dogs which had homes, but were free to roam... they became such an issue they were dealt with by local council policy, either removed and either destroyed, reclaimed or rehoused.... usually destroyed after being in a 'dogs home' for a set period of time. Rubbish - the issue is extreme enough in Thailand to warrant serious measures. IF all street dogs in Thailand were removed and euthanised (culled) the issue would not exists today to the same extent it does... the culling would achieve its aims. Steps then need to be taken to ensure the issue 'more stray dogs' did not return. Stop people feeding strays - continue with CNVR on manageable levels (if it can be afforded), or simply continue with catch and euthanise (cull) and ensure there are no stray canine populations... You seem to think 'cull' is a one off... whereas its a continue control measure - a harsh one, nevertheless a necessary evil to ensure the standard of living and safety of society on a whole. And who pays for the CNVR programs (who pays for neutering & vaccination) ?? Its too costly, there are too many dogs. Catch them, send them to Vietnam... thats what they used to do ( for profit ). OR, catch and Kill them... I agree that Catch, Neuter, Vaccinate and Release will work and prevent future populations, but then how can you tell a dog is neutered and vaccinated - it requires additional resources... more cost. Thus: the answer is no dogs on the streets - none whatsoever, not even returned (CNVR) dogs. And thats shows why you don't understand the problem as it exists in Thailand as you fail to bring in the economics - the cheapest solution is the only one in a developing nation, otherwise there is no solution which functions with consistent results. In one wealthy area - no dogs at all (why is that ?)... perhaps the wealthy donated a lot of the CNVR program nearby, though no dogs were returned to roam the same streets from which they were taken... perhaps the local MC guys were paid to deal with the issue and they just killed them. In another area, less affluent, but nearby, there were strays all over... a danger to kids and motorcyclist etc... Stray dogs are all over other area's of Bangkok... as you pointed out 680,000 of them - Soi dog foundations are in the process of catching them, neutering them, vaccinating them, and then what ???.... Return - back to the streets... OK - they can't mate... so there will be no stray dogs in Bangkok in 10 years right ? Wrong - the foundations have only so much funds... how many times do they spend resources catching the same dog only to find out its one they've neutered and vaccinated ? (wasted resources).... On a comparison of Country size, population, and amount of stray dogs - Thailand issue is 3x worse... Additionally, There are more dogs noticed on the streets in Thailand in areas of high population density because they do not deal with the issue... The issue is less visible in area's such as Turkey because its already being dealt and that is being politicised now... (they have always dealt with dogs but not to extent needed - just like Thailand 10 years ago when a half hearted attempt to cull street dogs was carried out) Again - deal with the issue properly (nationwide cull / or catch & euthanise if you prefer those words) - not nice at all... but as mentioned, sometimes tough things have to be done.

A Complete waste of life through no fault of her own. Key comments in this article: So truck driver speeding then... this was no accident, it was death due to dangerous driving. Would a helmet have saved the girls life ?? (no mention of a helmet in the article, but thats a natural assumption here that no helmet is worn). ------- I hate being the first person stopping a lights... and when I do so, I ensure I am fully to the right or fully to the left of the road.... that wont save the poor girl, but it may make someone notice and made a difference to them.

You're a canine overpopulation expert as well as a road safety expert. Everything you've posted shows how profoundly you lack the backbone to deal with an issue... Life is nice when you can 'dance over issues' instead of understanding there is an underlying 'dirt' to ensure better standards of living for us (the general human public). If you don't like the word culling (which does work in other countries - just speak to farmers) - then rehousing of dogs does nothing (effectively rehousing means placing them in over populated shelters where there is a spread of disease and further mating as the dogs are in mixed-gender pounds and further suffering)... Culling - same as euthanasia, its just a word softies such as yourself can swallow - but the underlying result is the same - getting rid of them, shipping them to Vietnam (for food) or just killing them. Its not nice - but life isn't....

Fair enough - round up stray dogs and rehousing or euthanising them is not culling.... So.. semantics asside... In Thailand... all the stray dogs could be rounded up and caught, and either rehoused or euthanised... There (same thing). For the pedantic: Same same - nid-noi different...

They are good at controlling and manoeuvring a motorcycle. They are good at getting you somewhere quickly, going through gaps and taking chances. They are not good at assuring your safety, and take chances I wouldn't attempt to take when riding a motorcycle here. Thus when in a direct comparison - riding pillion on a win tax vs riding myself - I am always safer. That said: I too have been here a long time and drove a car long before I rode a bike here... Thus, for others, their risk-profile may vary and it would be of benefit to them to put their trust in someone with more local experience than to ride themselves.

Efficient use of wording in that article... Euthanasia of Humans is illegal... It not not expressly illegal to euthanise animals, though neither is it 'expressly allowed'... this is the grey area under which a policy to euthanise can exist... ... This has occured in the past... where 'dog snatchers' were (and still are) employed to round up the stray animals and 'take them away'.... ... 'taking them away' is sufficient for most to be acceptable, but of course ignores the elephant in the room that these dogs are either being destroyed or taken over the boarder for profit (to sell as food)... Don't like this from happening - then stop it once and for all - get rid of all strays to prevent suffering of future generations of animals. Make owners be accountable for existing animals (wear a collar) and breeding must exist under license. Heavy fines for those found turning their 'unwanted animals' to the streets. There is no affordable / nice, humane way... but there is a way of solving the problem and if this issue had been resolved 20 years ago - we wouldn't be discussing it today.

The issue has been a national issue for decades while I've been here.... A kid being mauled by a stray or a pittie is a monthly story on here....

totally illogical. obviously a minority I've lived in Thailand for over 20 years normally in middle class closed village developments i.e. the majority of Thailand and there has always been a dog problem. "disposing of dogs doesn't address the problem at all. at best it shifts them around temporarily. Not illogical at all... In the wealthy neighbourhoods - the absense of dogs has been noted. People are paid to get rid of them - quiet nights sleep, no dragging of garbage around the streets etc... This of course is not a nationwide solution - but I had no objections to those in the neighbourhood (or someone) taking matters into their own hands and employing someone to deal with the issue. Agreed... Not just on a neighbourhood level - they can be dealt with on a national level. Yes it does - why are there no stray dogs in the UK ? If done property and approached with sufficient resources with continued observation - culling works. Who are underfunded and cannot resolve the issue - they just feed the problem. Correction..."stupid people don't notice if the problem gets better"... ... I noted that an area of Bangkok that lived in hardly ever had stray dogs... I don't remember any around... walking at night or day time... (Lots of extremely wealthy families lived in the area with their walled off gardens)... I long postulated that someone must have been paying off a local team to 'ensure the area' was dog free. It can also be noticed than in 'more Muslim' area's of Bankok, there are fewer dogs - most likley because the strays are fed less in these areas. On the other hand - Turkey (which does not have a stray dog issue) does have an issue with stray cats, becasue 'animal lovers' keep feeding them... the benefit there is the cats get rid of the rats...

I didn't and paid the price - my objection was not the procedure but the prepping - didn't want to spend all night going to the toilet, they now have a prep where you drink it at 6 and you can go to bed by 9 all done. You are knocked out for the actual procedure and know nothing about it. Thanks... just spoke to the Wife and said I'm going to get this done this week... Threads like this and comments such as yours help those like me who are reluctant to take the step and require a nudge... This is quite a strange situation for me, because if its a knee-operation, or a fully body medical check-up etc (which I take yearly), a trip to the dentist etc - then I have no hesitation whatsoever. Having the chutney tunnel visited by items and eyes unknown (or known to that matter) is somewhat off-putting, I'm fully aware of what an extremely juvenile outlook that is... nevertheless - this is something which really should be done and I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger so to speak.