placnx

17 hours ago, Thomas J said:

To "repeat" I SEE NO REASON FOR IT TO BE ILLEGAL.  The fact that the U.K. government or the Thai government deem it to be illegal only speaks to how ludicrous the policy is.  What could possibly be the reason to prohibit the distribution of the vaccine, except that they want to control the process and don't want private industry to run circles around them.   Common sense says the more locations that have the vaccine the better for the public.  Given the track record of governments running anything efficiently the public would be far better served with private institutions that are incented to provide service to its customers versus governments who are filled with bureaucrats that really don't care.  One only has to look in the USA at Amtrak, the U.S. Postal Service, the Veterans Administration, Medicare, Medicaid, etc add credence to how governments should be the last not the first to be in charge of the vaccine distribution. 

You should realize that this is a public health issue. It goes beyond individuals and their ideological preferences. When we get Covid vaccinations, we hopefully get some official document and the jab registered in a database.

18 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Yes, and I fail to see the point?  If the U.S.A. and other countries can do it, why not Thailand?  Yes, the USA may be at the front of the line since many of the pharmaceutical companies are based there.  That still does not explain why the USA saw fit to distribute the vaccine to pharmacies throughout the USA and the Thai government is expressly forbidden even private hospitals from receiving it.  

The point is that these pharmacies are not going out independently and getting vaccines. Especially in the Third World, there could be fake vaccines circulating.

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

They did a great job with lock downs and testing. 

rabas was not talking about lockdowns or testing. Mortality is a state secret....

3 hours ago, rabas said:

Many countries had mass graves, overflowing hospitals, temporary morgues during the earlier strains.

 

There no secret hidden pandemics. 

Exception: China

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Yea it looks that way, but the availability of vaccine is not linear, As countries like the US and the UK get vaccinated for the most part, Expect larger quantities to become available in the market at substantially reduced prices, Why do you think the Thai government is procrastinating? 

In the US in three or four  months they wont be able to give it away. where do you think all that vaccines is going to go?

At some point the US and Canada will decide what to do with the vaccines that they ordered and aren't going to use. I'm guessing that they will go first to countries that have ordered but not received delivery, but not clear. There's also COVAX wanting vaccines.

3 hours ago, Thomas J said:

If there is None to Buy than why the prohibition against hospitals procuring it.  I "suspect" that the private hospitals would find a source and perhaps make the government look bad.  If you look around the world, other "private" hospitals are obtaining it.  Heck, in the USA the grocery store chain Publix is inoculating in their in store pharmacies the same as they do for Shingles and the Flu 

The vaccine being administered in pharmacies in the US was ordered and distributed by the government.

4 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Try reading the actual NIH Projects Report that was started in 2014 instead of trying the wikipedia which tells you nothing. Here is the link to the NIH Projects site which is not a small thing as you falsely claim with your false information.

https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/8674931

Admittedly I was a mistake of NIH to fund Daszak who then passed on money and technology to the Wuhan lab.

4 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Yes I have read what you wrote and you wrote "Comprehensive genetic analysis based on large databases now suggest the virus first came into existence in the October time frame in China." If it came into existence as you wrote then how is it recorded in France in an Argentinian man in August 2019

Evidently you did not understand what rabas wrote.

5 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

There is no variant of Covid-19 with an R number of 30. During the spread of the B117 (Kent) variant in the UK I think the highest R value it had was around 1.7 - meaning each infected person would pass it on to an average of less than 2 other people.

 

That's still enough to cause an exponential spread, of course.

The R number expresses an average, but there are cases of a single individual infecting 100 people.

7 hours ago, Boyblue said:

the Family travelling from the UK where isolated, but what about all the people they came into contact with on their trip to Thailand, maybe that is the anwer to how it got through.....

and as for complacency and the 2% mentioned, you only have to look at Brazil to see what complacency means. over 4000 deaths in one day...... why is Thailand waiting till June to start vacinations when the rest of the world has already started and the UK is nearly complete. you cant rely on tourist with vacination passports not to bring it in with them, they may not get it, but they can spread it........

While it would be sensible to check the health status of all the passengers on their inbound flight, the Burma origin mentioned by unblocktheplanet seems more likely:

7 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

"We did everything to block it, and it still gets through,"

My guess is through Burma (what variants are there) or a foreigner for whom 14 day quarantine was not long enough.

 

“B.1.1.7 is as much as 70% more transmissible than existing variants, and far deadlier” “he was puzzled at how community transmission had occurred given Thailand's strict border controls, quarantine and testing protocols”

Dr. Yong surely can't believe this!!!

 

“for every 1 person infected up to 30 more are also likely to be infected” "less than 2% fatality?"

All good...unless YOU happen to be one of the 30 or the 2%

 

“Not really if you make your livelihood in tourism.”

Time for Thailand to diversify, innit? All the eggs in one basket have gone rotten. Tourists are NOT coming back for a long time.

 

Back to our roots. Thai sticks. Organic agricultural exports.

21 hours ago, anchadian said:

Quentin Sommerville liked

 

Julia Macfarlane 

 

@juliamacfarlane 

@ABC

foreign affairs reporter

·

A new study in Chile where the vaccine rollout has mostly relied on China's Coronvac vaccine, shows that the first shot alone does not offer protection against COVID19. It might explain why Chile's infection rate is still so high despite being one of the most vaccinated countries

The Chinese vaccines offer less protection from infection, so with the UK variant these vaccines do not protect public health, only help avoid serious illness of the vaccinated individual. Consequently, they may even promote new variants by letting the virus run rampant. With such infectious variants, we need to use mRNA vaccines or anything else in the pipeline with similar efficacy. Even Astra-Zeneca is not ideal. Furthermore, a high percentage of population (~80%) would need to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.

17 minutes ago, polpott said:

Latest info from AZ suggests it will offer a good level of protection for 12 months and possibly up to 2 years. You can't give a definitive answer until an appreciable number of people have been vaccinated for that length of time. Appreciable numbers have been vaccinated with AZ for more than 12 months now (Stage 3 trials).

Exactly. We also have to see how the vaccines work as new variants appear.

On 4/5/2021 at 9:56 AM, WaveHunter said:

Actually I think I misspoke about my enthusiasm about this plan earlier.

 

There is so much misinformation about this plan!  I'm not criticizing anyone on this forum BTW, but I have read several third-party interpretations of the 3 stage plan in my google searches, and all were misleading.  It's now sounding to me like just marketing hype by TAT (just like the earlier and failed Special Visa Program.)

 

I finally read the government plan itself and I am NOT impressed at all.  Stage 2 and 3 are still way too restrictive IMO and contain far too much red tape to seriously attract tourism.  They are not science-based at all and really rely on wishful thinking more than anything else.

 

In Stage 3, "...tourists will be restricted to travel activities within designated areas in these destinations for 7 days before they are allowed to visit other Thai destinations..." sounds way too restrictive to me if someone has been vaccinated for over one week.

 

I mean, the average vacation for most people is one or two weeks.  Who is going fly halfway around the world and spend a significant amount of money only to sacrifice 50-100% percent of their vacation to these restrictions?

 

I think this "road map" deal is just another trial balloon doomed to failure just like the Special Visa program earlier.

 

Instead, why not just wait a month or two from today, see whether the efficacy of the vaccines are being proven around the world, and then just open up the entire country to tourism with the only restriction being that you must have been vaccinated for at least 7 days, and test negative to enter the Kingdom....AND THAT IS IT!  No more red tape, no travel restrictions...PERIOD!

 

Of course I realize that such a simple and science-based plan would probably be incomprehensible and distasteful to all the bureaucratic paper pushers, but until it is that simple and straightforward, I can't imagine many tourists showing up here by Q-4.

 

My biggest complaint since moving here is how the powers that be seem to feel the urge to make even the simplest things complex, convoluted, overwhelming, and totally confusing to the average person.

If we really want to be scientific, we will have to make distinctions between vaccines. Not all will be effective enough against the variants already circulating. As there are more and more vaccines available, not even counting the vaccines produced under license, figuring out which travelers are really "safe" will be chaotic.

6 hours ago, rabang said:

There won't be any global covid vaccine certificates. The idea of trying to implement one is laughable. The old yellow book doesn't count in modern times. Anyone could forge it in just about any back alley. Why would someone vaccinated be worried about unvaccinated people anyway? I think at most we could see about 60 percent of the global population getting the covid vaccine. It might be tough to reach that number even in many developed countries, let alone globally.

This link has the slides of a US government presentation of vaccine passport initiatives - 17 of them!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/federal-officials-review-vaccine-passport-plans/d40fb0be-fb34-48c9-be39-43d10bb15feb/?itid=lk_inline_manual_18

"One of the most significant hurdles facing federal officials: the sheer number of passport initiatives underway, with the Biden administration this month identifying at least 17, according to slides obtained by The Washington Post."

2 hours ago, mr_lob said:

Yep, with many countries saying they won't vaccinate kids, and Thailand insisting on vaccines for everyone, they have just killed a big sector of the market, especially over high season 2021/2

Moderna and Pfizer vaccines will be approved in the US for children, from 12+ anyway, but by December the trials for down to around 2 years old could be done as well. As these vaccines are being administered without mishaps, hesitancy is decreasing. Now the US population is being educated to the fact that herd immunity can only be achieved by also vaccinating children.

14 hours ago, AnnieSeek said:

 

As i have said, the start point to opening should be when the majority of Thai's have been offered the virus. 

 

On one hand you are saying they should be careful because of what is happening in Europe, but you are also kind of arguing that they should open up anyways because it will be with us forever - totally negating there are always middle grounds, in this instance the majority of Thai's vaccinated. 

 

So far, and even by July, Thailand is unlikely to have vaccinated anywhere near enough of it's population. 

 

The islands whilst quiet are also getting domestic tourism - i was surprised by how much. You allow in quarantine free tourists and unvaccinated domestic tourists will stop going. You are just swapping numbers with extra risk. 

The problem for domestic tourists could come if a lot more people come to work in Phuket without having been vaccinated, or if there are not enough precautions for preventing domestic tourists from getting Covid from other domestic tourists.

14 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I understand what you're saying, but what exactly is 'the end'? The virus isn't going to disappear as much as we all wish it would. Look at what's happening in mainland Europe at the moment. 

A gradual opening up with precautions needs to happen at some point. 

The end is when around 80% of the population has been vaccinated, for starters.

On 3/1/2021 at 8:08 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Just today, nephew got a highway ticket.

112 where 90 is allowed.

500 Baht.

(car still registered/ticket addressed to mom who has left Thailand about 15 years ago )

Are fines due when registration is up for renewal?

On 2/28/2021 at 9:28 AM, scorecard said:

Perhaps the speed limit where the camera kicks is deliberately confidential.

 

It's been mentioned before that the total numbers of 'camera' tickets issued for speeding and for going through red lights is utterly enormous, so maybe the cameras now work on a random pattern to cut the number of tickets down a bit?

 

 

Are all the cameras set to tick off at the same speed?

On 2/28/2021 at 8:43 AM, MrBrad said:

Speed plays a part in every accident.  If your vehicle was moving at only 5 kph and it hit something, it was moving too fast.

Actually people talking on phones while driving slowly is surely causing many accidents.

8 hours ago, webfact said:

If the scheme in Phuket proves successful, quarantine will be scrapped in other popular tourist destinations throughout Thailand, namely Chiang Mai, Krabi, Pattaya, Phang Na and Koh Samui from 1 October. 

So what's the situation for a Thai + American couple returning after more than a year absence - marriage visa? They were living in Chiang Mai, so would they have to quarantine after 1 October?

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The dramatic spike in anti Asian hate crimes in the U.S. during the pandemic has been overwhelming impacting American citizens rather than tourists. 

That's not surprising. Chinese tourists and others must be few these days.

It's not easy to find solutions to this problem. Banning a relative handful of people could benefit Asian-Americans. Create a perception on the part of those who are liable to commit hate crimes, that something is being done in response to their anxieties. It may calm them down.

Historically, there have been notorious episodes of maltreatment of Asians in America. The internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2 was done by government. Trump certainly exacerbated some existing resentments. After poorer Americans have gone through 20 years of losing jobs to China, there's fertile ground for hate crimes. 

6 hours ago, Sujo said:

That takes the cake as the weirdest logic i have ever read.

 

We are banning you because we are bad and cannot be trusted to not commit violence upon you. So stay away so we dont have to give you your rights.

No, the idea is to calm people prone to violence by removing an irritant. It is politically impossible to take guns away from these people. We want to prevent violence against Asian-Americans, so tell those "Christians" that real Chinese are being banned from entry, and please treat your fellow Americans with respect. This may create a certain amount of peer pressure to compensate for the race baiting of the last four years.

8 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Does this position apply after everyone in the U.S. (who wants one) has had a shot, and there is a huge stockpile?

 

And what about me? I am a U.S. citizen but I do not "actually live there"? Would it be "ethical" for me to slide in and get a vaccination? I would have no issue paying full price for my vaccination.

 

I am not down with jumping the queue, but the virus is a global phenomenon, so the more people who are vaccinated the better, right?

 

 

Now Moderna trials are checking on vaccinating children as young as 6 months, so some of the the vaccine supply may be taken up by children after May. On the other hand, the capacity to produce vaccine is growing a lot, and further vaccines are coming on stream, so there should be more available to share with foreigners.