placnx

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And how is it linked to that person? How are the details stored? Everything can (eventually) be hacked and faked.

The issue could be some country hacking the national databases of another country. Actually, they might be even more interested in hacking the vaccine database to downgrade a competitor. That might be a single database in the cloud, so a lot of attention to security would be needed.

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Agreed.

 

But to be honest I'm less then impressed with the World Health Organization on many aspects of the whole Covid 19 issue, and now it seems they have done very little to plan/implement a globally accepted Vaccine Certificate. 

It's reported that Estonia is working on an updated certificate for WHO.

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

That is fine, but what about expats worldwide who hold passports from one country and are living full time in another such as Thailand. We wouldn't be on the home country medical data base nor most probably on the host country medical data base.

 

I am asking for myself as I don't have many friends.   ????

So if someone receives their first Covid vaccination in Thailand, their QR card would have the Thai preface code and they would be in the Thai database. That does not preclude NHS (for example) interfacing with this database to update personal medical records. There would be an online procedure for the card holder to give NHS their QR code.

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

Who knows, but adding it to MEDICARE on-line records is both logical and practical.

 

Medicare started maybe 4 decades ago in Australia, it's a pretty good system and it's popular, free, covers all conditions (but not cosmetic stuff) and all Australian citizens are fully entitled and totally easy to get started, most parents enrol their kids just after birth. Permanent Residents also fully entitled also many other visa holders . There's currently discussion about extending full benefits to international students and some categories of folks on working visas (e.g. fruit/agricultural workers). 

Each country has a different system. These personal health records should be linked to the national vaccination database in each country so that medical records can be updated with vaccinations, even if they happen in another country. It's not sensible to fragment public health records such as vaccinations by recording them directly in personal health files.

12 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Without cryptographic signatures linked back to some central issuing authority in each country these could be faked by the millions in days.

 

Quite right. This is an interim solution. Let's hope that their databases are not chaotic. 

18 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Have a DL style card in the short term, then as passports are replaced over time, make it a requirement to have a covid vaccination page (or just general "vaccination page", but we know what it will be for) after the biodata page linked to a database.

 

No one gets in without vaccine, but still need quarantine until numbers in the target country are high enough that the chance of people getting very sick or dying is minimal.

 

Once each country gets to the point where enough people are vaccinated, and getting a yearly(ish) booster, they can do away with the quarantine.

 

Sadly, covid looks to be here to stay.  Who knows, maybe they will eradicate it if the vaccine makes people less likely to catch it and to spread it.  At this point, I think most people would settle for just being able to travel as normal.

The code of the QR card could also be printed in the passport or on a sticker as done for visas.

23 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Yes, that's a pretty simple system and I'm sure it worked well for the tiny numbers of people who needed it.

 

Now scale it up to everyone who travels anywhere in the world at all times.

 

Add in a few hundred million people who won't take any kind of vaccination because they're 'antivaxers' and then there's the people who have allergies to vaccines (millions more).

 

How do you address vaccines which have efficiency levels of say 55% compared to the vaccines that have an efficiency level of 95%?

 

Does everyone get treated the same? Highly unlikely.

 

The countries will pick and choose who they allow in and it will be based on which vaccine they've had, that's where it starts to get complicated, very complicated.

 

In theory it's a good idea but in practice there's no way it will work properly.

 

That's why we need not just a QR card but a system of databases to hold vaccination records but also keep up to date information of all the vaccines. I think that we should also see if the manufacturers would use blockchain to document the distribution of vaccines to the level of clinics to lessen the possibility of swapping or faking vaccines.

As for people who have valid issues and are unable to be vaccinated, ideally they should be required to provide substantial proof, so a hospital where they receive treatment could document that on the vaccination record. What happens when they arrive at an airport depends on the airline and immigration. They would probably have to undergo antigen testing pre-flight and maybe quarantine, maybe RT-PCR or antibody tests on arrival.

On 2/6/2021 at 1:56 PM, Morch said:

 

And bio-metric documents (passports and the like) can't be forged or tampered with. Sure.

The QR code on paper being linked to a specific individual would be of no benefit to a forger.

On 2/6/2021 at 1:03 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

We are all destined to pass in this life, fact !

 

I remember what my father said to me once, i.e. he saw that I was stressed over something and said son; I have been where your coming from, think about it for a minute, you are allowing all of those thought in your mind to run around and stress you, while you have absolutely no control over them, so accept that, you have no control.

 

When you realise that you have no control, you can then take control of what you could not control and only then can you enjoy your life, it's simple, fear and panic only causes you to stress, and it is part of our society and will be around for as long as you allow it to control you.

 

Do I still stress, only when I get on TVF ????

 

 

 

Great points you make about stress, and how reading TV could be stressful.

I am not frightened for personal safety or mortality, but rather for the ability of this deadly virus this to rapidly gather a dozen or so mutations in one variant that then can reduce the efficacy of vaccines. The South African variant is reducing the efficacy of some vaccines to the point that several producers are working on boosters. If vaccinated people end up getting a little sick rather than being hospitalized, that's good but it might do little to keep them from passing the infection to others.

Booster after booster is really not the ultimate solution with a virus that can circulate so rapidly. It's just not a practical solution to be giving the whole world a jab every year or so. It will not be an optional vaccination as is the case for flu vaccine. The problem is that we don't seem to have enough production capacity for the mRNA vaccines to be able to get them around the world quickly enough to keep ahead of current and future variants. We want to get to the point where contact tracing of outbreaks is an option.

10 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

OTA like everything else.......

To be clear, I was asking whether the data in the chip under someone's skin could be updated. Please clarify.

15 hours ago, Morch said:

 

One thing I've learned about security measures, codes and whatnot, is to expect them to be breached etc.

If for example a card is being used by someone other than the person associated with its QR code, it will show as soon as the QR code is scanned.

26 minutes ago, Pique Dard said:

good news! when they become adults, they'll move  to the uk and tell china not to interfere with british politics!

They could only get to the UK with parents who were born before 1997. Not sure whether the parents need to already have the BNO passports.

3 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

There is only going to be one " Vaccine Passport " that will become a viable option Globally.

Love it , or hate it the only option will be for an under the skin Micro Chip.

There are too many reasons to do this , including the fact that it cannot be transferred, or copied so easily, and its quick to read for immigration Staff.

Of course, the details it carries will have to be ironed out, but there really is only a need for Name Nationality Vaccine applied and its Date/s 

Can this chip under the skin be updated?

4 hours ago, Morch said:

Passports can be faked. Stands to reason the new addition could be too. What then?

Going to be a hot commodity in some circles, that's for sure.

Or put it otherwise, it relies on officials worldwide, and in a wide range of countries and cultures being beyond taking that envelope.

You are right about these vaccine passports that were shown in mock up. However, an effective card would work by having a QR code unique to the individual which could be read at check-in, immigration and would bring up the vaccine record on the national database where their vaccination is recorded. If the vaccination was out of date, etc, this would also be signaled, so appropriate decisions could be taken, such as requiring test(s) on the spot.

Actually the QR code could be read when booking a flight, so that the passenger could get a booster or whatever before travel, if needed.

8 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Unlikely as I'm pretty sure COVID will be around forever

 

 

 

 

You are quite possibly correct, since it will take big resources to conquer. US and others would have to identify the preferred vaccine platforms and build big production facilities so that the world can be vaccinated much more rapidly. The speed of mutation and emergence of "improved" variants is frightening. 

8 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Yes, His ORGANISATION - a non profit sent funds to the lab. He never worked there and was never lab manager. He didn't give them technology either. Spread your conspiracy theories elsewhere please. They're not welcome here.

I suggest that you read the link which I provided above which reveals in detail what that transferred technology does, which strongly suggests that various articles such as the one in Nature Medicine denying a lab origin/creation should be discounted. This is the article in question:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Lab origin is not a conspiracy theory. It is an hypothesis.

4 hours ago, John Drake said:

And as mutations continually develop, just how many vaccines will you need to put in your "passport?"

It would make sense that the WHO card work in conjunction with a database that will have up to date data on all vaccines, such as how long their vaccinations continue to protect, filtered by age of vaccinee. When other vaccinations, boosters, are given the card would be updated.

5 hours ago, ChakaKhan said:

Can I use my LINE QR code as authorization?  ????

Doubtful, but a QR code should be very useful if used on Estonia's WHO card project.

21 hours ago, ukrules said:

If this happens (which I doubt) then it won't happen for years, will be some half arsed private enterprise and largely not  backed by the governments of the world.

 

By the time everyone agreed on some international standard which covers all sorts of different vaccines COVID will be a non issue.

 

We're talking about the entire EU, the US and many other countries all agreeing on some common system - they might as well just give up on the idea now.

 

Estonia is working on an updated "digital" WHO vaccination card. This matter should be managed by governments, and these private ad hoc solutions will only help to the extent that they contribute useful technological innovations.

This Covid may last longer than you think, and subsequent epidemics will be around forever, so such a WHO card should have all vaccinations recorded. The idea is to prevent an epidemic from becoming a pandemic. 

16 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Oh, you would like to see China getting a kicking ?  What do you suggest ?  Military action against them ? Do you reckon missiles and bombs ?

Yes, okay, you reckon that because of what China has already done, the US should actually go ahead with a military strike ? I really do hope that war never takes place between America and China.

The scary thing is, I think about a third of all people have the same opinion as you. 

The question is whether China might eventually annoy enough countries that a reset would be declared on UN and WTO, goodbye China. Rather far-fetched at this point, but what will Xi do next?

5 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Your post isn't correct.

 

1) Daszack was never the lab manager. He works (present tense - He is the president of EcoHealth Alliances) for a non-profit that provides funding to different projects. He is also on the ground now as a member of the W.H.O team in China. He has NEVER worked at the W.I.V (Wuhan Institute of Virology)

 

2) The lab has operated since 1956 and has been working on MERS/SARS since 2003

 

3) Funding came from Eco Health alliances - a global non profit. This non-profit received funds from the government and the non-profit provided funding.

I would suggest that you, everybody, read the following.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

Then we can have an informed discussion. Daszak was the conduit for funds from NIH, but he also got them a crucial technology from the US.  

5 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Very interesting comments about this American run lab in Wuhan where Dr Peter Daszack an Englishman was the lab manager and he worked for a company called Ecohealth Alliances Inc whose offices are located in New York. Batwoman was employed at that lab and it has operated since 2014 to do research after the MERS and SARS viruses. This lab was funded by America since the Obama Administration in 2014. The research was not only done in China but it was also done in Australia and France. Here is the website of American National Institute of Health showing in its projects about this lab and the people who worked in it and the work that was carried out. 

Project Information - NIH RePORTER - NIH Research Portfolio Online Reporting Tools Expenditures and Results

https://projectreporter.nih.gov/project_info_results.cfm?aid=8674931&icde=49588715

The following is the most thorough investigation and analysis of evidence of the escape theory that I've encountered:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

5 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And I totally agree with "It is not about  Authoritarian Vs Democracy  or communism Vs Capitalism. "
I reckon it's more about "America using the issue of Taiwan as an excuse to declare war on China, just in case if America does want to fight China" .   ????
See, that vast trade deficit that America has got with China. Them billions of US government bonds that China has got. How can America clear these bonds held by China ? Well, defeat China in a war, that will do it. 

These are conspiracy theories. Where did you find them?