placnx

46 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yeah, it's not easy figuring out what's going on here.  Seems to change day by day.  Same with the info on the jabs.  One day, the Chinese jab is not OK for those over 60.  The next day, it's OK.  Makes my head spin.

There's a lot of evidence that Sinovac is not useful, especially if the goal is to stop Covid from passing the infection via vaccinated people. Same for Sinopharm. Same antiquated technology.

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

You are misrepresenting what was said, I watched the briefing live.

The regulator,MHRA, said there was no basis to make any changes to the approval, average incidence was 10.5/million post first jab and 1/million post second jab.

The JVCI, advisory body to the government on the use of vaccine, made a recommendation that where an alternative vaccine was available it should be offered to those under 40. If no alternative is available then the recommendation is they have the AZ vaccine.

In the discussions that followed it was good to see the TV presenter using the term "low platlet blood clot" rather than just saying "blood clots", had to correct himself a few times.

It should be borne in mind that the number of vaccines administered too under 30s is very low which gives misleading results, one out of 2 is 50%.

Time people got to grips with the facts of the matter.

I think that you should read the links that I posted.

You are bad at maths and logic when you make the claim about "misleading results". It is a pretty simple calculation to arrive at the 1:60000 frequency for this clotting in the under 30 age group. 

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Seems these mRNA jabs are the way to go.  I'll pass on the Chinese ones.  And would rather not get the AZ jab.  That means probably September or so for the Pfizer or Moderna jab here in Thailand.  I'm guessing....

If these vaccines are not even ordered yet, how can you expect a September jab? Or did you mean Sept 2022?

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

"conferred no efficacy".....you omitted........ "against mild-to-moderate disease"

Fine, but we need to stop Covid, so neutralizing antibodies are the endpoint, to avoid infection, not keeping people from getting mildly sick, since they can infect others.

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

And it still isn’t. 

 

There is a plan in place, the same plan that’s in place for the Thai population. 

Why should we British Nationals in Thailand receive a vaccine ahead of the Thai population we live amongst?

 

 

OK, how would you get it here ?

How would you get the licence to import medication ?

How would you store 55,000 doses ? 

How would you distribute them ?

Has the J&J vaccine been approved for use yet? has it been approved for use in Thailand ?

 

 

Are you proposing that 55,000 people ascend on the British Embassy for a vaccine ?

 

For arguments sake: Say 1 person is vaccinated every minute ‘on British Premises) - 60 per hour (8hr day), 480 per day, 2400 per week

It would take 6 months to vaccinate the British Population in Thailand (and thats for one dose).

 

Then we would have people arguing about which type of vaccine... Moderna, Pfiezer, AZ ?

 

Would family of British Citizens also be vaccinated? welcome to another can of worms.... 

 

 

 

The reality is even if the legal complexities could be dealt with, the British Embassy is unable to handle the logistics of vaccinating British Citizens in Thailand, the undertaking is too large to be practical or even safe.

 

Thailand is already well placed to start vaccination and is doing so from next month, I can’t see how the British Embassy cannot improve on that time scale. Perhaps they could have if vaccinations started back in January, but what of every other foreign Mission in other nations? An estimated 5.5 million British people live overseas, how can they all be vaccinated by the British Government?

 

The only realistic thing the British Embassy can do is to ensure that its citizens are included in any vaccination plans the Thai Government make. 

 

 

The issue with these criticisms is that judgement is often passed without thought. So....  I would ask people like you placnx, How would you do it ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You certainly put out an avalanche of questions.

First of all, not all 55K Brits are so much in need. Let's consider those most at risk, older people. Although there are clotting issues similar to AZ, the cases involved women aged 18-48, so not the target group. The question remains when the J&J vaccine will be approved in the UK. That would be a sensible criterion. This vaccine is easier to transport in-country as well, and requires a single dose.

There are various British facilities in Thailand besides the Embassy, so perhaps the vaccination effort could be disseminated, possibly needing some indulgence from Thai authorities. You many need some doctors and nurses to help. Is that really a problem?

Importing vaccine: If it comes in by a diplomatic shipment, do we really need the medicine to obtain local approval? 

While it is to be hoped that the Thai government can do the bidding of the British legation, considering all of the recent contradictory statements, doesn't it behoove the British government to have a backup plan? At some point, it may simply be unacceptable to remonstrate ad infinitum.

If the British head of household can get vaccinated this way, non-British family members can hopefully qualify for vaccination under the local scheme. Main point is that the virus is not going to wait around for the Thai government to make up its mind.

I certainly hope that the Embassy in New Delhi finds a way to assist British citizens there. 

5 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Only an apologist looking for an argument would not see that the graph is from the most official, and most visited, source used on this and other forums frequently.

 

I have now edited my post to please you.

 

And yes it is propaganda, because it is not only happening only in Chile also, it is happening all over the world.

 

I'm sure that if RT had published an article about increasing new cases in the US, between end of March and mid April, you would be on your high horse, and denying it.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

There's a lag involved between the vaccination program and getting the curve under control. You have to consider what was going on. Spring break. The tail end of the graph is declining nicely, though.

11 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Correct.  And it doesn't stop you from getting the virus and passing it on.  I'm guessing some who've been jabbed think they don't have to wear masks or social distance any more.  That's not the case.

To what extent transmission via vaccinated individuals occurs will get clearer. In Israel they are checking the Pfizer. I believe that the conclusion so far is 70%, but that only applies to the Pfizer vaccine.

12 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's impossible to compare the various jabs as they were done at different times, in different locations, with different mutations.  In the end, ALL of them keep you out of the ICU and from dying.  But yes, we don't have good clarity into the Chinese or Russian jabs.  Sadly.

While the trials may have demonstrated high numbers for keeping people from dying, it's not so clear that in the real world with new variants that remains the case. On this thread, it's the Seychelles, but experience in Chile is showing this problem as well.

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Those working for the FCO and British Chamber of commerce fall under British residential status, continue to pay Tax in the UK and remain under the umbrella of the the NHS. 

 

You’ll have to look harder for your criticism. 

 

 

With all the debate about whether or not foreigners receive the vaccine, who do you think is in the background lobbying the Thai Government to prevent them from the clumsily abhorrent potential of levying elevated charges on foreigners to receive the vaccine in Thailand etc ???

 

We have very little idea of what occurs behind the scenes but I trust that we have representatives doing their diplomatic best to ensure fair treatment. 

 

Equally so, do you really think it feasible for the British Government to bring in 200,000 doses of vaccine to ensure the safety of its citizens while Thai’s are still struggling to secure sufficient vaccine.

.....Then you would have all the British whingers who live in the provinces complaining because the British Government didn’t arrange to have the vaccine transported to them in the countryside..... And then we’d have all those British whingers complaining because they haven’t been offered the vaccine they wanted.....

 

Ultimately, its not the British Government (Embassy’s) responsibility to provide us healthcare, but they can lobby and ensure that we are not excluded from options made available to Thai’s....

 

I don’t know why any of us would expect more than this... some just have an inflated sense of entitlement. 

 

 

 

 

Under ordinary circumstances, I would agree that the Embassy is not the place for health care. If there were a transparent, rational plan through local means for vaccinating British citizens, there would be no need to consider extraordinary measures. Using the J&J vaccine, single jab, would make sense in this case. This would at least make it practical for those who can get to British premises somewhere in Thailand.

9 hours ago, Sheryl said:

For epidemic control purposes resident is anyone who is presently living here.

 

There is no connection between immigration law categories and the term "resident" in everyday speech. It literally means residing in i.e. living in.

 

Migrant workers are very much a priority, in fact some were already immunized under Phase 1.

 

I think from the onset, government has thought of "foreigners" mainly in terms of migrant workers as those account for the vast majority of foreigners in Thailand. Some  of them lack both passport and Thai ID card and some are completely undocumented, making the issue of how to target them complicated.

Migrant workers should be identified by the national IDs if they have them, but if not let's hope that WHO comes up with a modern card that's linked to national databases.

5 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Still at the stage of flip flopping and don't know where, don't know when.  Wait for jam tomorrow boys. 

 

One report quoted the ministry official as telling foreigners to ask their embassies for vaccinations, if they can't wait.  As if the Thai government would let them import vaccines and set up vaccination centres for their citizens, apart from embassy staff which has of course already happened in the US embassy. 

 

Lucky for Thais living overseas that they have not been treated with such racisim and derision.

I'm not an import specialist, but embassies have diplomatic import privileges. Vaccinations would have to take place at diplomatic facilities to avoid arguments.

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 At this time the only Thais who can register for a vaccine appointment are those in the high risk groups.

In the UK their advisory board is recommending that younger people (under 40) not use the AZ because observed clotting frequency is 1:60000 for under 30s

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57021738

Then there is this:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2103931

So with the B.1.351 on the way here, getting Sinovac or AZ may be an academic question.

On 5/6/2021 at 6:54 AM, mtls2005 said:

 

Maybe not promoting it, but maybe just floating it now as an "idea"?

 

He may have some visibility into the infection trends and vaccine delivery schedule(s), and see that they may have to prolong "the plan" by ~ six-months?

 

Pure conjecture on my part because, well, we're provided very few facts.

 

 

It would make sense to have a window of 3 months between jabs and in the meantime upgrade the vaccine for the second jab.

On 5/6/2021 at 3:17 AM, Stargrazer9889 said:

From what I have heard on the news and have read, there are no vaccines that will make you immune to the COVID virus.

  The vaccines will keep you from getting as sick or dying if you catch the virus.  Is the 96.7 percent, considered against dying from

the virus if you contact it 4 weeks after you have received your shot of the vaccine AZ?  Maybe this is just more

propaganda?

Geezer

Some are better than others. The 96.7% must refer to trials based on the original strain.

On 5/6/2021 at 1:36 AM, Banana7 said:

There are now stories that Seychelles, the most vaccinated nation in the world, is encountering a surge in new infections. Their people were vaccinated with Sinopharm and AZ. Some of the new infected people had one dose and some had 2 doses. The AstraZeneca’s vaccine appears to be less effective against variant B.1.351 variant in a study, and South Africa halted plans to use it. Story is here:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/world-s-most-vaccinated-nation-reintroduces-curbs-as-cases-surge-1.1599208

Here are two articles from New England Journal of Medicine on efficacy of AZ vaccine against the South African variant B.1.351:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2103931

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214

From the first article: "In the trial by Madhi et al.,5 two doses of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine conferred no efficacy."

It seems like the AZ vaccine needs to be urgently upgraded.

9 hours ago, Trvlr55 said:

but again this is Bangkok, not all of Thailand, which is what you cited.

Please go back to school and learn arithmetic!

On 5/6/2021 at 5:43 PM, TaoNow said:

Why are all you posters so worked up about vaccine availability?

 

Aren't you practicing primary prevention in your household and when you go outside?

 

What have you got to fear by waiting a few months until the vaccine situation clarifies?

 

Until then, pipe down please.

The concern of many is no doubt that if proper vaccines are still not ordered, when will they ever be delivered? This is not a question of a few months.

On 5/6/2021 at 2:54 AM, Jingthing said:

I have a theory about what's going on based on what I know now.

It's just a theory and it could easily change tomorrow based on new information.

This is about politics more than about vaccine supplies.

Thai people are blaming the government for the economic misery from the pandemic and not preventing the third wave and yes of course being slow in the vaccine program, and they may get restless, so the government deflects blame to foreigners. Why wouldn't they?

A tactic as old as the hills anywhere.

I think the core "hint" here is the word FREE.

Not so much that some high risk expats may get jabs "early" or relatively early but mostly about the FREE part.

So here's  the theory. 

Forget FREE.

The vast majority of expats always expected to pay anyway, no biggie, we're very used to being charged differently. 

But being greatly DELAYED in getting jabs could be a life and death issue for HIGH RISK expats.

So this is not a NORMAL situation for such expats. 

The Thai government knows that too, and they also know if they push  high risk expats too far to the back of the bus. there will start to be pushback from diplomats, etc.

So how to thread this needle and get the best of both worlds? 
PRIVATE HOSPITALS. 

High fees for vaccines.

Make these expats pay through the nose (we mostly don't care!).

Can still get the political win by not giving us jabs free.

From the popular Thai POV, this is all OK as long as we're forced to pay and pay a lot.

Expats can still get the jabs without waiting an awfully long time (hopefully).

But, of course, we shall see. 

This does not explain the delay in putting in vaccine orders for private hospitals. Now that the infection situation is getting serious, the Moderna story gives the embassies an alibi for not having reported the truth to their governments, i.e. that nothing has been done to arrange vaccinations for foreigners, even in private hospitals. Smoke & mirrors.

On 5/6/2021 at 2:04 AM, SiSePuede419 said:

Feel free to come back to the USA to get your vaccine. Should be a breeze. They're begging people to get them now.

Others have figured out that such a trip would take two months. 

On 5/5/2021 at 11:45 PM, starky said:

On race, or residency or citizenship? Totally different questions. how many of the Australians trapped in India will be vaccinated before citizens? Is there evidence of any country giving jabs to tourists before citizens were vaccinated? Honestly don't know just asking. Before you play the race card would like to see how many other countries with very little vaccine would be giving it to expats before their own people. 

This of course argues for Embassies taking care of their nationals in countries badly affected.

4 minutes ago, wealthychef said:

 

If the rapacious drug companies would relax their patent protections we could all get a shot this month.  

Waiving patents would be counterproductive. The best is to get US and similar to build vaccine production facilities at 'warp speed' to have the good vaccines available in ample quantities. Countries with no experience in making sophisticated vaccines are not a sensible choice if saving the most lives is the goal.

21 hours ago, Trvlr55 said:

Article appears specific to Bangkok only, not all of Thailand "Bangkok plans to inoculate 70% of its inhabitants,"

  Bangkok current population @ about 10.5 million, so this would be closer to 210 days/ 7 months.   

  70% is the current standard for Herd immunity, which is typically the goal to allow life to start to get back to normal again.

 

I don't see where they state that vaccines would stop once it gets to 70%,  but more to the point is to reach herd immunity, which contrary to popular opinion lock-downs do are quite ineffective. Vaccinations are the only answer.

You forget that 2 doses are required, so it's 420 days!

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

house prices went up because the CDN government decided to 'sell'  residency/ citizenships to these folks with  a fist full of cash, which basically every country in the world did..

That was true in the US where foreigners, mostly Chinese were buying $500K pieces of building projects in certain development zones to get green cards. So can foreigners get property in China?

2 hours ago, dutchweller said:

Also from what I understand 

Thailand is blocking foreign Embassys in Thailand from vaccinating its own citizens with supplies bought in from home country.

Yep well done Thailand you ARE as racist and zenophopic as every says.

 

What business is it of Thai government that foreign embassies give vaccinations on their premises to their own citizens?