Dipterocarp

15 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Had this happened in the UK the security guard would have been charge with Assault and Battery, and/or even GBH (Grievous bodily harm).

 

A stand off whereby a person unlawfully stands their ground, in first instance they would be asked to leave, the police would be called and the police would try to resolve it peacefully, then they would be informed of what criminal charges they are committing and if they persist they will be arrested, if this was on a plane I think it would have been wise to deplane if not all certainly clear 2 or 3 rows behind and in front and all rows to the nearest exit. 

 

Fact is The British Bobby is trained not to let the situation get out of hand, first action would be to handcuff, this normally will have a sobering effect, if still refusing to move then leg restraints and rap him in blankets or strapping him into an ambulance chair before carrying him off the plane.

Thanks. I read elsewhere there is no legal right in the UK jurisdictions to use force in the case of trespass. Sounded like "rubbish" to me. Apparently the Chicago Aviation Officers are sworn peace officers in state of Illinois so they have some authority. I thought they were just rent-a-cops. The same sequence of events should have happened, explaining charges and prior to cuffing. In the states however you are required to remain passive and not resist in anyway, such as flexing arms and struggling, or else they can lay other charges such as "resisting arrest" , etc

It's Songkhran man the TP will be equally bladdered by 7PM! 

Nothing stopping people who don't want to get wet from holing up in their rooms. Still time to hit the shops for food and drink. 

11 hours ago, orchidlady said:

If they offered cash I'm sure they would have had takers ($800 per pax).

The airline screwed up by not planning for the staff they needed in Kentucky. Unless all four staffers were replacing other staffers at the last minute who were admitted to hospital, drunk (internet has news story about United pilot drunk, not in uniform, ranting about her divorce and politics), or who died... they should have used another airline OR how about renting van and driver to drive the crew the 4.5 hours to Kentucky in the spirit of customer service. 

As it was, the plane as delayed several hours to clean up the blood from this incident.

 

Of course they have no concern for passengers. United has many flights departing from China, will be interesting to see how reservations are effected by this. Earlier, social media comments about this incident were viewed by 98.5 million Chinese.

 

 

What does a Vietnamese American behaving badly and getting brutalized by thuggish cops have to do with China?

Operating crew board at the highest priority to avoid delays of subsequent flights. Say you are on The next days morning flight from Lou-A-Vuhl to Chicago. It is delayed 5 hours now because your crew had to take a van. Now you miss your connection to Asia and have to stay one night in a hotel in Chicago. If the flight the next day  is full you know you are now on standby for that flight also.

How many days are you and everyone else on the flight happy to be delayed because one man refuses a valid instruction to deplane then legal orders from law enforcement?

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What no one seems to have picked up on is that the guy dragging the passenger down the aisle is NOT a cop. Cops wear uniforms- he is wearing jeans. Did he have the authority to physically manhandle anyone?

The Chicago Aviation officers are sworn Peace Officers in State of Illinois. Maybe that is their dress code. Ever heard of undercover? There are armed Air Marshalls on some planes also, they dress to blend in I understand.  I never justify  the Police brutality demonstrated constantly in America.

 Say the polite Bobbies of Englund ask a person to leave private property. The person refuses. What happens next the policemen just give up trying and let them be?

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

In this instance no passenger needed to be inconvenienced to make way for operational staff who for one reason or another had not got their act together.

 

 

Many ridiculous assertions on this thread but, operational staff not getting "their act together"? Their managers assign them to ride on a flight for the purpose of operating successive flights. If the employees refuse an assignment they would be fired!

22 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

can't you stay with the subject, what if there was a meteorite strike or Yellowstone let go?. stop doing what ifs and stay with the subject.

 

watching Spicer on CNN he's just as evasive as you are.

 

pp I just reread what you said, a medium jet aircraft having to offload 4 people over weight/fuel considerations?.

It is just an example, I can think of many. A full flight. One business class seatbelt breaks. There is no replacement available. The seat must be blocked, business class passenger is not gonna get bumped off the plane just down to economy class. Now one of the poor sods back there is SOL. Fight with the cops? Bad idea.

44 minutes ago, Johpa said:

That passengers are involuntarily deplaned is not a legal argument. 

 

The guy is will become a folk hero just like this guy:

 

 

You appear to be arguing once a passenger steps on a plane he cannot be deplaned, i.e. denied boarding, This is not what the intent of "denied boarding" means in actual operations. 

Say a full flight is delayed on  the Tarmac couple hours for some reason. Now ready to go Fog rolls in at the destination. The pilot is legally required to take more fuel, creating a weight restriction equal to 4 passengers, who would now be asked to deplane according to the air carriers policy. This is an operational requirement exactly like the airlines required crew movements in this case. Thousand of people are denied boarding every year, most don't resist, become belligerent, delaying everyone else on the plane and the subsequent departure of another flight.  

Here is a real airline folk hero. A Cabin Attendant sick of dealing with abusive passengers after 20 years grabbed a beer, popped a chute and fled the airport!

9 hours ago, Johpa said:

 

Again, I have only seen wording noting the denial of boarding , and that without even to have any justification.  But although there maybe something in the fine print somewhere, I've yet to be shown anything about removing an already boarded and seated passenger apart from security or health.  This will head to the courts for final determination, perhaps to determine whether operational necessity goes beyond the necessity of the flight in question.  But the real question is whether the clear right to deny boarding can be retroactively applied to those already boarded and seated.  Whose to say that United didn't just go Thai to get some favored VIP somewhere for a party?

Sticking to the wording contract of carriage "denial of boarding" is a point of information a lawyer might bring up at court. But it will fail. Because passengers are involuntary deplaned after actually boarding for many reasons, in actual operations.

Yes , an interesting character. Professional Poker Player and failed Physician, suspended for handing out painkillers illegally at Louisville in exchange for sexual favors of the alternative nature. Not the type to follow sheepishly follow authoritarian rules and lawful instructions.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/david-dao-united-doctor-airlines-louisville-kentucky-passenger-removed-video-photos/

https://twitter.com/Tyler_Bridges/status/851228695360663552/video/1　 A Twitter video of the man after he ran back on the plane. If he is not drunk he is as rational as the geeky Ophthalmologist in Damascus. Probably should not be allowed by family to travel alone and certainly not a practicing Doctor. Sad, but can hardly blame the Airline. The problem is police brutality this man needs a compassionate intervention by Psychiatric  care nurses  not a beatdown.

56 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

" Another video shows him, still disheveled from the altercation, returning to the cabin, running to the back of the plane and repeating: "I have to go home."

 

The guy was evidently a bit of a nutcase. If you're asked to leave the plane for whatever reason, you can't just refuse, like a child. That in itself is reason enough for security to forcibly remove him. This idiot should be prosecuted for refusing to comply.

Yes this is how he reportedly looked retuning the airplane. Not in his right mind, I have seen many times drunks acting like this. If he really thinks he is right he should be headed to the Hospital and calling lawyers, not wandering back onto the aircraft bloodied and beaten. Not rational behavior.  

I gave up trying after asking off and a while. No straight answer,  basically waiting for people to die. No transparency on waiting list. I always heard you find a new branch opening and make a nice deposit but I have no definitive proof any Farang has secured a bank box in CM for years.

I hope it is like Helmet where she gets here ticket , then a it's a free pass to keep flashing the rest of the day. A nice rack and the mates will pay her Fine.

Wrong, passengers can be removed for any operational necessity. If any of the officers who engaged in brutality were rent-a-cops (Private Security Guards, usually minimum wage people without the social skills for fast food.) They have no authority to remove a person by force. UA Lawyers  will argue they are airport employees, not agents of the Airline

"About this incident the police overreacted but I wonder what we are not seeing. (Doubt the man is a Doctor, he is certainly not in his right mind, maybe drunk) Once you are asked to leave private property are guilty of Trespass. If you are intending to protest removal you do no non-violently. This guy resisted, that is why he was hurt. You don't mess around with cops in the states. I don't think it is right how brutal law enforcement has become but they will beat you down in a second."
 
My guess is that your drunk.
 
You say 'he is certainly not in his right mind'. What evidence do you have to write that?
 
You have no reason doubt he is a doctor.
 
You say he was violent - can't see any evidence whatever of that.
 
You write as if passengers have no rights.
 
Just wondering what your reaction would have been if suddenly your the one 'selected' by the airline to be forcably removed?
 
Seems to me that if nobody volunteered then the airline should just make alternate arrangement for the transportation of their crew,  no matter how complex it may have been. Maybe set up seats on two connecting flights with vacant seats to get the crew to the final destination, etc. 
 
I hope united get seriously sued for millions and punished seriously by the appropriate transport agencies.
 
And they need to review what staff members must take charge of such situations. 

.......You made many mischaracterizations of my post. I did not say the man was violent, I said he resisted. If you sit limply in your seat while lifted by three grown men one will suffer no injury. We will see if he is really a practicing Doctor in the coming days if this story does not die out. Most of them are pretty intelligent, smart enough to not resist law enforcement. If I was asked to leave Private Property I would do so without escalating an incident to involve a Physical Conflict with anyone, let alone law enforcement officials. The only rights air passengers have are outlined in the fine print called a contract of carriage, various international treaties, and also some legislation passed in the States which covers delays.

Overbooking is allowed unfortunately and if asked to leave an aircraft by flight Crew you must follow their orders, it is a Federal Offense to do otherwise.

And airline crew are often required to ride in the back to operate another flight, have duty time regulations, and there are many schedule changes.

How would you feel if your flight was cancelled because your Flight Crew was stuck in Chicago overnight, because passengers who were legally asked to deplane refused to do so?

The airline will only suffer bad publicity, no legal penalties. They did not brutalize the passenger that was done by police and airport security not agents of the airline.

21 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

This says more about society nowadays. Everyone has such a highly-strung sense of entitlement and readiness to take offence that they can't tolerate the slightest inconvenience - even when offered adequate compensation. What is wrong with them? I would have just shrugged and got off.

True. I was on a United flight recently where a man boarded dropping eff bombs at a Cabin Attendant and there were plenty of older people and children around looking shocked. He was a gold member upset that he did not get an upgrade. First Class was sold out.

I saw the whole thing from 3 rows away. Then a pilot came out he shouted at the pilot "why don't you have me taken off?". He was taken off without a fight but screaming abuse the whole time.

About this incident the police overreacted but I wonder what we are not seeing. (Doubt the man is a Doctor, he is certainly not in his right mind, maybe drunk) Once you are asked to leave private property are guilty of Trespass. If you are intending to protest removal you do no non-violently. This guy resisted, that is why he was hurt. You don't mess around with cops in the states. I don't think it is right how brutal law enforcement has become but they will beat you down in a second.

7 hours ago, dddave said:

They actually do have instantly inflatable avalanche survival suits.  Though standing snow is a solid, snow moving in an avalanche acts like a liquid. If you were check out avalanche survival techniques, a swimming motion is one method often suggested.

The avalungs and now inflation packs have helped people survive avalanches. But they must be used with beacons, and in only in teams/guided mountaineers trained in their use and avalanche rescue. The ideal is to use knowledge and experience to AVOID slides and other mountain hazards.

Old Farang Hippie dressed as Lord Shiva leading a small line of followers on Loi Khro Road in Chiangmai. Barefoot, carrying a staff and everything. It wasn't Halloween.

Staring early, even though it is just a little squirting mid-day in Backpacker central, whatever. During Songkhran the same types however will be the ones dumping buckets on dry people after dark.  Cornering and soaking elderly British tourists on way to airport begging to be left alone, and purposely shooting in the eyes/ears with high powered ice water guns, laughing when they crash  bikes. I like a little water fighting but the whole thing is out of hand. These people have no idea of the true spirit and meaning of the festival  and I wish they would have a little consideration and decency in their drunken indulgence.  There is an element of malice that gets into some of these these people during Songkhran.

LaGritta still hanging in there.  As I recall it was shut down years before the Amari Rincome anyway. Perhaps it will re- open or they plan to move the structure elsewhere?

Do not assume a motorist will stop for you. Assume you are invisible and act accordingly

Check both sides, and again. An entitled ass in  a Fortuner may be speeding on the wrong side of road to overtake a line of cars to make a right turn.

You could try and be the first in CM to run on old rancid fry oil. No Shortage of that here.

http://inhabitat.com/converting-your-vehicle-to-run-on-veggie-oil/

Remember while LGBT folks would be the first to suffer creeping Sharia influence in the West these are the "moderate" Muslims the Left is so supportive of.

The announced a shutdown of about 10 percent of stores. There IS  substantial doubt will Sears/Kmart

will survive.