dick dasterdly

11 minutes ago, donim said:

Not really, just a bad choice of words and title setup from the OP.  He is not using 'expensive' wording as some here. If you had readed the thread first..

 

So did you queue up in that line?

I think he is grown up more than some roony

What you had to write is 'grow some skin' 

 

"Grow some skin" may well be right ☹️, but I'm unlikely to do so as it's impossible to change our personalities.

6 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

So, you could not think of some better gift for an old poor person than an old samlor that has a starter problem? Did you throw in a couple of pairs of used underwear too?

 

How can he repay such generosity? And why isn't everyone overwhelmed by your generous nature? He probably can't drive the samlor anyway... 

I'm willing to bet that he won't turn up at my house asking for money.  He was just genuinely excited and happy to be given a free samlor.  And I did my best to make it very clear that I had another samlor, and so didn't want the old one that needs to be started every couple of days.

He may well sell it for the money, but it doesn't matter.

3 minutes ago, donim said:

Not really, just a bad choice of words and title setup from the OP.  He is not using 'expensive' wording as some here. If you had readed the thread first..

 

So did you queue up in that line?

I think he is grown up more than some roony

What you had to write is 'grow some skin' 

 

Yes. I was in a bad mood when I posted (not to mention more than a bit pissed as a consequence of what had happened....). ☹️

20 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

In fairness, you mentioned nothing of this in the initial post. And besides, what Sheryl mentioned still stands up. I'm not sure why people think Thai people are so different to the rest of humanity. There are a few different nationalist quirks as do all nationalities, but they all live, love, laugh, cry and have a full range of emotions just like everybody else in this world. Those emotions might just be triggered by different social situation to what you were nurtured to follow.

 

I was at a funeral not too long back and as we all went up to the casket, the family and the junior monks all started throwing little packages of money. Some guy, in need of a good wash and a feed who had been lurking on the sidelines of the temple, got straight into the crowd and bagged as many of those parcels as he could. No-one blinked an eye. This poor soul wandered off with  plastic shopping bag about a 3rd full of packages filled with coins.

 

I'd say if your blanket statement of "Thais' attitude to the very poor amongst them" were true, that poor urchin would have found himself in jail beaten to 10 different shades of purple. But he wasn't. And no one seemed to mind. In fact I think it gave more than a few a smile. It briefly had me laughing until a little bit of wee nearly came out.

 

Then it just left me with a smile knowing he was going to have a decent feed - at least for that day.

 

Why not ask the people in question why they were so negative to offer assistance? It will possibly answer all your questions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Why not ask the people in question why they were so negative to offer assistance? It will possibly answer all your questions."

Because that really would cause 'loss of face'?  Plus, my Thai is far from good enough to get into this type of discussion.

8 minutes ago, Benroon said:

But you didn't say that did you - you said "it left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to THAIS attitude - ie the entire nation - blatant stereotyping!

You misunderstand, I've nothing against Thais at all and have frequently been astounded by the way they've helped me out when I was in a 'bad' situation.

Which is why I was so shocked at their reaction yesterday to a very poor guy.

But I do agree that I was wrong to stereotype in this way, based on the reaction of a small number of Thais.

7 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Sorry, I thought that the guy was living near you, and the shop / other people you asked to help with the bike were neighbours or in the same village.

 

People know everything about everyone in a small village.  

I've no idea where the guy lives, but do 'know' the neighbours and 'bike repair man.

Living in a relatively isolated area in Rawai, Phuket is admittedly not the same as living in a small village.

4 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Maybe they just don't like that guy... not because he is poor, but for some other reason?

 

One of my neighbours is like that.  When I first moved here I felt a bit sorry for him, and he was also the most friendly and welcoming person and seemed nice.  People would tolerate him, but some were rude to him, and from my first impressions that seemed rather nasty.  At a few parties in the street he was left out, snubbed and only tolerated by some.  

 

Over the year living here his true character, and the reason no one likes him (or helps him) is because he gets very nasty and crazy when he has too much to drink, which I have been on the receiving end of his behaviour a few times now... and now I keep my distance and basically ignore the guy. 

 

If OP came to our house and saw this man being nice and chatting away to me over the wall asking for help, money, or food for his dogs and I was off hand with him, and refused to help him.. the OP would come to the conclusion that I has a bad attitude to poor Thai people and start a thread about 'English man's attitude to poor people'.. just from this one experience?

 

 

I seriously doubt they had ever met him previously and, if I came to your house and saw a neighbour asking for money etc. - I certainly wouldn't think that you had a "bad attitude" as I'm not at all keen on people asking for money either.

6 minutes ago, JetSetFvr said:

Sadly, you have to consider their caste system.  The lowest are the very poor and considered untouchables. It's believed by most that this is some sort of punishment for a previous life or actions they took to get in that situation ie bad karma. We think of it as being mean and cruel.  To them, it's just a life that person somehow deserves.

After yesterday's experience, I'm inclined to think this may possibly be true.

Having said this, I have seen Thais giving money to beggars (who were clearly disabled) at the market.

17 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

No doubt. And no doubt your intentions were good.

 

But he might have been even happier if you had been more discrete about it such that others would not know if he had bought it vs been given it for free.

 

People's unwillingness to join in the undertaking may among other things have been a desire to distance themselves from something being done in a too public/embarassing manner.

I was discrete about it!

Initially, I went to the clearly v. poor man and tried to tell him that I had a samlor that I didn't want.  He didn't understand what I was saying, so I walked to 'my' 'bike repair shop and explained to him - as he knew that I had a new samlor and he was more used to my appalling Thai.  He clearly wasn't happy about it, but reluctantly came with me to explain that I had a samlor that I didn't want.  I asked the 'bike repair man to come to my house as it was going to be v. difficult to start (and that obviously I'd pay him) - but he abruptly told me that the man to whom I was giving the samlor would start it.

Getting back to my house, I showed the v. poor guy that I had another samlor and so didn't want (mai au) my old samlor.

When he couldn't start it, I went to my Thai neighbours to ask if they could help start the 'bike (but obviously didn't say that I was giving it away to the guy).  When I'd previously had problems starting it they'd immediately rushed over to help, but this time they didn't want to know.

I'd wondered why the Thai to whom I was giving the samlor hadn't gone to the neighbours for help when he couldn't get it started - but now I think it was because he knew they wouldn't give a damn about him?

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

No probs, but you should offer your old samlor to some poor member of TVF

As mentioned previously, it has already gone to a 'good' home.

16 hours ago, david555 said:

Thanks for the support ….as we had it with U.K. now ….

41 minutes ago, bannork said:

Donald Tusk has saved the British from themselves, news coming in of EaU offering a 1 year extension.

Suprise, suprise..... not.

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

I  have lived in Issan at one point.

 

Generally poorer area but basic dynamics not different than the rural area I live in now.

 

One can indeed easily cause offense by providing charity, people do have their pride and it is important to them.  Also, what may look poor to you, may nto be by local standards, and there are gradations of poverty that may be hard for a foreigner to discern/understand.

 

There is also a sensitivity to the possibility that foreigner might "look down" on locals. Imagine for example that a wealthy Arab fro ma gulf state came to your home country, went into people's homes and started buying basic necessities for the kids. Would that not cause offense?

 

It is far harder or a foreigner to know when and how to be charitable without giving offense (or wasting their efforts) than it is for a local, and often helpful to seek local advice first accordingly. And to be very tactful and mindful of people's need for self respect....and their need to reciprocate in some fashion (do not turn down any gifts of thanks, regardless ofwhether you need or want them. )

 

With the exception of outright beggars, no one wants  to feel like an object of charity. We wouldn't like it either. In Thailand with the emphasis on "face", sensitivities are even higher than elsewhere and discretion and tact all the more important. If it looks like you are trying to publicly cast yourself  as a do-gooder at the expense of the "face" of the recipient, people will not think well of you for it nor should they.

 

But none of this implies any lack of compassion on the part of Thai people.  In fact it is my observation that Thais are extremely tactful and adept in showing kindness.

 

 

 

 

And yet the guy to whom I gave my samlor was extremely happy to receive the gift.

Having saId this, I give up.   Posters are more than welcome to feel that I did so for selfish reasons.

12 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Maybe they felt it reflected badly on the OP giving away such a rusty old samlor, and were embarrassed on his behalf.

 

Maybe now one of them is having to help the old fella get the samlor to the scrap dealer.

 

Who knows?

Maybe I could ask my wife.  Maybe the OP could do the same.  His wife, not mine.

 

I reckon Thais must be reasonably generous to very poor people, since there seems to be money to be made from begging and selling stuff at traffic light intersections.

 

SC

 

 

I give up - you're quite welcome to think I'm 'publicity hungry' ????.

Feel free to re-direct the thread to your preferred option.

8 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

It is very possible that this individual has a bad reputation in the community and people have good reason for not wanting to deal with him.  Your Thai would have to be very good and your knowledge of who’s who in the community extensive, to be able to make a judgment about their motivations.

 

Being too quick to judge with insufficient data often leads to bad judgments and incorrect assumptions.   Your story and assumptions leave me with many more questions than answers.

You're desperately looking for excuses.

26 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I quite understand that .

You have stated that you gave your old samlor to a poor person numerous times already .

I really do think that you are just looking for some praise about your heroic deed , you made the World a better place , it would be even better if more people were like you .

   CONGRATULATIONS and I shall remember your kind act when it comes to voting for poster of the year 

I'm very sorry that you feel that way about me ☹️.

Some of us care. the locals - not so much......

2 minutes ago, isaanjohnno said:

Exactly- has been my experience also- only gotten worse over the last 10-15 years- prior to that it wasn't as blatant or un Buddhist 

I've only been here 12 years or so, and have had little to do with the genuinely poor.

Which is why it came as such a suprise to see the reaction of Thais to the genuinely poor ☹️.

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, you have to pay for things to be fixed from a professional mechanic , you cannot expect a non mechanic to know what was wrong , why it wouldnt start and then be able to repair it  .

Don't ask me as I've no idea!

I bought a far better samlor with 'ignition' (?) start, and wanted my old samlor to go to a poor person.

edit - Is that hard to understand?

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Are you looking for a bit of recognition , a "well done" and a pat on the back, for your kind selfless deed ? 

Hardly, I was very happy to finally find a poor person that would appreciate my old samlor.

I wouldn't have posted if the locals hadn't made it clear that they didn't care about the poor guy being given my samlor.

Although to be fair, most of my friends also thought I was mad looking to give my old, unwanted samlor to a poor person, rather than selling it ☹️.

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Absolute nonsense as regards Thais as a people.

 

Both empathy and charity are well understood and I do not find the percent of Thai people who practice them to be much different than people anywhere.

 

What you say may be true of the particular Thais you are dealing with but it is hardly true of Thais as a people.

 

They run the full gamut of types and characters. Selfish, selfless. Cruel, compassionate. etc

 

There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance.

 

As for the OP's story, I think most likely people either did not understand his plan to have the man make use of his samlor or may have felt it was clearly not going to work (and they could have been right on that score...not at all clear the man had any inclination or ability to make a go of being a samlor driver). Thais understand charity well enough, but development-type schemes less well...and sometimes the ones foreigners hatch aren't realistic to the situation or person for reasons they don't see buy that Thais easily can.

"There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance."

Agree almost entirely with this part of your post.

The 'poor guy' undoubtedly initially thought I was a loonie!  But my 'bike repair guy' understood, even though he clearly found it incomprehensible.

My Thai neighbours also understood, and rushed in to help when I had problems,, but had no interest in helping the guy to whom I was giving my old samlor ☹️.

Edit - Everyone to their own, but I find this depressing.☹️

22 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Maybe they couldnt fix the bike or didnt think that they could get it started and so didnt try and it had nothing to do with the mans lack of wealth ?

They didn't even bother to try - until I pretty much 'forced' my local 'bike man to come to my house to fix the problem ☹️.