Bkk Brian

No you said it has nothing to do with Hamas, you are very wrong, its everything to do with Hamas. That's why there is this sham case

I've read what they have said So what are the lawyers acting on behalf of Israel going to be concentrating on? You say you've read what they have to say? If you think providing credible links is nothing more than being a parrot, then I suggest you are now starting the usual trolling responses

So you missed the 55 references to Hamas in the report? I've not read it in full but its a pdf, its fully searchable without having to read it in its entirety. You claimed its nothing to do with Hamas, try again.

Again you are just not reading this topic and miss the professionals including lawyers that I have referenced that have read it. Including: John Kirby dismisses South Africa’s accusation against Israel: “We find this submission meritless, counterproductive, completely without any basis in fact whatsoever.”

From me? I've not read it, I've already told Jeff that so yet again proof you've not read this topic,

I'll wait for Jeff's response

Well have you read it, you asked me but have you?

Oh. So confirmation of Cherry picking from the article quotes and confirmation of ignoring reality. The 84 page report also contains Hamas Oct 7th info. Have you read it?

Unbelievable testimony by Nili Margalit, an Israeli nurse who was abducted from her house in Nir Oz. She was taken by Gazan civilians who took her to a Hamas tunnel in Gaza and sold her to Hamas. She took on the unofficial role of medically treating dozens of Israeli hostages, all injured, some elderly. She made detailed lists and demanded that medication be brought even at the cost of arguing with her captors. When she kept insisting on medication the captors sometimes denied the hostages fans. Staying 40 meters underground without ventilation caused them breathing difficulties. She had to improvise treatments, she treated infected wounds with honey as there were no antibiotics. It's a story of (another) amazingly brave and resourceful woman. https://twitter.com/Elad_Si/status/1743011904430227873 More disturbing revelations from her interview here Freed hostage recalls watching as Hamas captors informed Yarden Bibas about ‘fate’ of his family while filming Nili Margalit, who spent nearly 50 days in Hamas captivity, reveals that she was with Yarden Bibas when Hamas terrorists told him his wife and two young children had been killed and ordered him to film a video in which he blamed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for refusing to return their bodies to Israel. The IDF says that the claims made by Hamas regarding the Bibas family have not been verified, and terror groups in Gaza previously announced that an Israeli hostage had been killed in IDF strikes only to release her alive several weeks later. But Margalit tells Channel 12’s Uvda investigative program that Yarden Bibas was already in a poor psychological state due to worry over his family’s wellbeing https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/freed-hostage-recalls-watching-as-hamas-captors-informed-yarden-bibas-about-fate-of-his-family-while-filming/

Great that you now acknowledge this is also about Hamas

Some further clarification for you Jeff on why it is all about Hamas not just Israel. Not matter how you feel about it, that's the reality Chef How Israel will fight Gaza genocide accusations in The Hague As part of the defense, Israel’s advocates will almost certainly detail the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7 — the rapes and beheadings, the abductions, the cold-blooded murder of unarmed civilians regardless of age and gender. They will argue Israel has the right to defend itself, and that to do so without causing civilian casualties is impossible because of how Hamas chooses to fight — hiding behind Gazans, embedded among civilians. “On the merits, the [South African] brief is absurd and is a textbook example of atrocity inversion,” said Anne Herzberg, legal adviser at NGO Monitor — a conservative Jerusalem-based NGO reporting on international NGO activity from a pro-Israel perspective. “The 7 October Hamas massacre is reduced to two sanitized paragraphs in the 84-page brief. It completely ignores Hamas’ tactics of embedding within civilian infrastructure and diversion of humanitarian aid intended for the people of Gaza,” she added. https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-gaza-genocide-accusations-war-crimes-the-hague/

Just to be clear, same #SouthAfrica that is serving as pawn of the Palestinians in accusing Israel of genocide at ICJ, has been for long time now embracing war criminals and actual perpetrators of genocide, like Iran, Omar al-Bashir and Hamas leaders! https://twitter.com/Ostrov_A/status/1743273187847094289

Yet some would have preferred it that way, some would have preferred Hamas had never carried out Oct 7th and started this whole war and destruction. Not all of them would like to be martyrs despite Hamas insistence that the Gaza Population deaths is a sacrifice worth taking and actively promote it. Hamas’s Strategy of Human Sacrifice Never before has a party adopted a war strategy to maximize civilian deaths on its own side. https://www.hudson.org/terrorism/hamas-strategy-human-sacrifice-douglas-feith What some Gazans say though not the majority Gazans Are Starting to Blame Hamas for Wartime Suffering criticism has begun spreading against the militant group, with Gazans blaming the militants for having provoked Israel’s wrath and for their inability to shield the population from a devastating war and a humanitarian crisis that deepens by the day. https://archive.ph/AuDjR https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gazans-are-starting-to-blame-hamas-for-wartime-suffering-066256b0 https://twitter.com/ofirgendelman/status/1743213149245866144

I got the yes, that all I needed in reply, thanks for the confirmation

No just a claim that it was the highest court in the land and you are wrong, for genocide the ICC is. Read my post again

Well, what do you think?

You're mistaken yet again, the ICC has specific jurisdiction over four core crimes - genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, crime of aggression, pursuant to Article 5 of the Rome Statute. The case coming up is in the ICJ a UN court

I know you'd prefer it to be only about Israel and if Israel was not turning up in court as it was not obligated to turn up, then South Africa would have tried to also make it only about Israel to. However Israel is quite rightly going to contest these fact less claims and if you really don't believe Hamas and its war crimes of using human shields will form a very large part of Israels presented evidence then you really have no clue.

Interesting, because I was under the impression this was all about Hamas on 7th Oct. Pretty sure you'll find that there will be plenty of evidence offered by Israel on how Hamas maximizes its use of human shields and makes casualty figures higher than they should be because of stopping Gazans going to safe areas or deliberately firing rockets from safe areas. Let lone planting all their infrastructure under civilian homes, schools and hospitals. Yes I think it will form a very large part of the case.

And? The articles have made comparisons, there's a reason for that.

Its absolutely up to John Kirby to make a professional opinion How the term “genocide” is misused in the Israel-Hamas war By the un definition, Hamas is a genocidal organisation. Its founding charter, published in 1988, explicitly commits it to obliterating Israel. Article 7 states that “The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them”. Article 13 rejects any compromise, or peace, until Israel is destroyed. Hamas fighters who burst into Israel on October 7th and killed more than 1,400 Israelis (and other nationalities) were carrying out the letter of their genocidal law. Israel, by contrast, does not meet the test of genocide. There is little evidence that Israel, like Hamas, “intends” to destroy an ethnic group—the Palestinians. Israel does want to destroy Hamas, a militant group, and is prepared to kill civilians in doing so. And while some Israeli extremists might want to eradicate the Palestinians, that is not a government policy. https://archive.ph/O8HpJ https://economist.com/the-economist-explains/2023/11/10/how-the-term-genocide-is-misused-in-the-israel-hamas-war On 16 October 2023, an open letter signed by around 240 legal experts, including jurists and academics, declared the Hamas attack on 7 October 2023 as a "crime of genocide." According to the letter, “as these widespread, horrendous acts appear to have been carried out with an intent to destroy, in whole or in part a national group – Israelis – they most probably constitute an international crime of genocide”. The letter was endorsed by legal experts from prominent institutions, including Harvard and Columbia Law Schools, King's College London, and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Dan Eldad, former acting State Attorney of Israel from February to May 2020, played a key role in drafting the letter. The Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights, chaired by former Canadian Justice Minister Irwin Cotler, also signed the letter.[40][41][42] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Hamas_attack_on_Israel

From the link Jeff.... U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby eviscerated the inappropriate use of the term genocide to describe Israel’s actions in Gaza, forcefully stating: “Israel isn’t trying to wipe the Palestinian people off the map. Israel isn’t trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Israel is trying to defend itself against a genocidal terrorist threat. So, if we’re going to start using that word, fine. Let’s use it appropriately.”

Israel is not committing genocide — but Hamas is It is important to underscore that the commission of genocide has nothing to do with the number of civilian casualties; the key element of the crime is the need to possess relevant “intent.” Whatever criticism one may have of Israeli policies or Israel Defense Forces (IDF) actions in Gaza, Israel is not seeking to destroy the Palestinian people, whether in whole, in part, or in any manner. During a Nov. 20 briefing, U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby eviscerated the inappropriate use of the term genocide to describe Israel’s actions in Gaza, forcefully stating: “Israel isn’t trying to wipe the Palestinian people off the map. Israel isn’t trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Israel is trying to defend itself against a genocidal terrorist threat. So, if we’re going to start using that word, fine. Let’s use it appropriately.” https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4388533-israel-is-not-committing-genocide-but-hamas-is/

"We have eyewitness reporst from the Wall Street Journal, one of the best and most accurate media sources there is" Really, its had its fair share of failed fact checks, not sure how you can claim its one of the most accurate sources there is? Regardless so we don't get into that debate on credible sources again and go off topic, can you provide a link to the eyewitness reports in the Wall Street Journal? The report dated 21st Dec from the New Yorker with headline "Gaza Is Starving". Interesting how different media have a take on this, here's the report from the New York Times, dated 1st Jan: Half of Gazans Are at Risk of Starving, U.N. Warns “I’ve been doing this for about 20 years,” Mr. Husain said. “I’ve been to pretty much any conflict, whether Yemen, whether it was South Sudan, northeast Nigeria, Ethiopia, you name it. And I have never seen anything like this, both in terms of its scale, its magnitude, but also at the pace that this has unfolded.” Eylon Levy, an Israeli government spokesman, contended that Israel did not stand in the way of humanitarian assistance and blamed Hamas, the Palestinian group that rules Gaza, for any shortages. He accused Hamas of seizing some of the aid for its own uses. He did not provide evidence, but Western and Arab officials have said that Hamas is known to have a large stockpile of supplies, including food, fuel and medicine. https://archive.ph/0liiq https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/01/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hunger.html The source report however offers more, link to it is the the article above. Some of its data input was from a survey of local Gazans taken in the November ceasefire and of course local UN agencies including some of those who are well known to be infiltrated with Hamas supporters. The remainder of the first section of the report is based on data input between 24 November - 7 December 2023 only, not for the present. We know that the second border crossing was opened on the 17th Dec through Israel's Kerem Shalom border crossing and that led to a significant increase in food aid delivery. The remaining sections of the report is predictions based on differing scenarios, those predictions go up to Feb 2024. Bottom line, the first section of the report is already out of date since the new border crossing opened and more aid started to enter. So pointless debating further.

Your comprehension of my post is truly bizarre. That aside, I have no need to read 84 pages of "meritless, counterproductive, completely without any basis in fact" farce. I hope you've done your revision and read it. This man will be however, although lets hope your not looking for a decision in a few days, the ICJ will take weeks for even a provisional decision British barrister to represent Israel against genocide claims A British barrister has been chosen to represent Israel in the International Court of Justice next week, as the country defends itself against a claim of genocide. Professor Malcolm Shaw KC, a leading expert on territorial disputes and a published author on the law of genocide, was said to be “proud, honoured and privileged” to have been handed the case. A graduate of both the University of Liverpool and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Professor Shaw’s selection signals Israel’s reversal of a decades-long policy of boycotting the UN court, which is based in The Hague. https://archive.ph/HWLXw https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/04/british-barrister-to-represent-israel-genocide-claim/ Can you quote me where I have defended all actions of Israel?