kwilco

It's alway been there - so many white people never notice it or are in denial. From out and out blatant aggression to thousands of microaggressions, it there. People are getting more educated - so in one sense what was always here is now noticed more and understood better......but it's always been there.

There are certain hallmarks, trait, and cliches that help you identify a racist - one is they spend a lot of time arguing that they, someone or something isn't racist....the irony is lost on them.

Haven't been through this thread - but my experience in Thailand is that the practice of "othered" is rife amongst expats here.

It always used to be the case that a UK driving licence holder (and some other countries) didn't need to take the practical test. I think a lot of applicants are their own worst enemies when going for their licence, s I've said a couple of times they are their own worst enemy.

I've driven extensively in Thailand for over 20 years and I now get stopped a lot less than I used to ....... one of the vey first time I was stopped, I had a UK (i think I had a Thai one too) licence and they wanted an IDP , i persuaded them that the green paper part of my UK licence was an IDP....... they gave up and we left without a fine. Over the years though, I find that your personal attitude is one of the most important factors. There are so many farang who seem to think they are superior to Thais in every way and when stopped, cover their ignorance with a veil of cynicism....the RTP recognise this and are much more likely to make life difficult for you. I've had some hilarious times when stopped and the have all ended friendly and to my advantage or minimum disadvantage - I thin it has helped I don't enter with prejudged "rules" or attitude and it works. I had both cars and motorbikes.

You could rephrase that a little … 1 - "I could not drive" in Pattaya..... (last Time I was stopped in Pattaya was about 15 years ago) 2- "I could not get" a Thai licence without an IDP – (most people I know presented their home country licence and that was sufficient) Then you should point out that you used an agent to get a licence on a tourist visa. You should also say WHEN you did this as practices change. I've had a Thai D/L for over 20 years, but always had a B visa....I NEVER went to the Pattaya office, or used an agent (actually I did use a friend from work one time)…… I've used Chonburi for almost everything motoring without any hassle apart from one renewal I did the eye/reaction colour test and watched the video - not for my first though. More recently, I renewed on Samui - did an eye and reaction test there. In the Samui office (per-Covid) they were turning people away who they considered to be improperly dressed. The thing is, that different offices do different things and so people may think they had the wrong documents when in fact they were wearing the wrong clothes – it’s as nuanced as that

That's strictly not correct. ...and for a short-term visitor not a feasible idea. His Aussie licence will be recognised especially if he has an IDP. He 's best off arranging to get one sent from home.

Insurance - Not sure what you mean by "local" insurance. do you mean national? - You home insurance may not cover you for any form of driving without specifying it and motorcycles are often regarded as "extreme" activities - you'll need crowd funding to get out of that one. This can be a minefield - as with everything concerning the "law" in Thailand the way it is enforced and the results are very inconsistent. One thing to bear in mind is that there is no court system that specifically deals with motoring offences. So the result is that courts are bypassed altogether and the judicial duties are taken on by the police. It is they who decide who’s to blame and how much it will cost everyone involved and then take a “fee” for sorting it all out However, driving without a really comprehensive cover leaves you open to all sorts of problems - you may end up paying medical bills for 3rd parties or repair bills, as well as your own. If it's a rental car because you don't have an IDP the insurance company may decide not to cover you - even if the rental company thought it was OK After 3 months in Thailand many insurance companies insist you have a Thai licence. The basic insurance that comes with taxing a motor vehicle has virtually little value apart from paying for the first emergency bills after a crash. Very few people check to see if they have bail bonds included. This can be important as the police have a habit of locking up everyone at the scene of some crashes until they can work out to their satisfaction what happened. There is also a golden rule that some people ignore - if ever you are in any form of incident that looks even remotely serious, the first thing to do is call your insurance company - so have the number nearby or on your phone. Then make sure the emergency services or police have been called. The reason for this is the insurance company will quickly send an agent to the scene and they will act as an intermediary between you the police and the other parties involved. Many times I've seen gammon-faced farang standing by the side of the road arguing with police, other drivers, bystanders etc and failing to realise the inevitable futility of their protestations.

Well, it's stipulated by the Vienna Convention and the IDP has several languages not just English - including Chinese Russian, Arabic and Spanish. Previously the Thai law seemed to cover the idea that a UK licence (photo kind) would have been OK - now they've signed the Vienna convention it seems less likely. However it makes no sense to argue the toss as it's so much easier either to have an IDP or have a Thai licence. Previously a lengthy and expensive court case may have proved you right, but now it seems you wouldn't succeed. I'm definitely not about to put it to the test myself. The UK card carries the same vehicle graphics as the IDP agreed under the treaty but some categories are not internationally accepted... but it doesn't have the other internationally agreed languages. Thailand regards all "mopeds" as 2-wheeled motorcycles, which means you would need a full motorcycle licence for a 50cc affair.

I'd say that Thailand's signature of the Vienna 1968) convention in 2020 supersedes both a 1979 traffic (it may have been amended) - and the 1949 Geneva convention

IDPs have several languages on them agreed by the treaty - I from what I remember it included Russian,Chinese Japanese, French German, Italian, Spanish etc....

Driving on an IDP A lot depends on what the police officer thinks he can do. Most want to see an IDP Thangs seem to have changed though. The old situation was that if your D/L had a photo and a recognised language (e.g. English” you’d be OK – and issued by a country that has a treaty with the Thai government allowing the mutual acceptance of driving licences Thailand did sign the Geneva Convention 1949 – not sure they ratified it though. However, that may be a moot point as they have signed the Vienna Convention (1968) on Road Traffic. This came into force in 1977 and Thailand signed in – wait for it! – 2020! “When a state is contracting to more than one convention, the newest one terminate and replace previous ones in relation between those states”. - (UN – Vienna treaty) Thailand has been ignoring a lot of the articles in this treaty but the IDP is in there. Here is an extract……… "· Contracting parties shall recognize as valid for driving in their territories: · any domestic driving licence drawn up in their national language or in one of their national languages, or, if not drawn up in such a language, accompanied by a certified translation; · domestic driving licence conforms to the provisions of annex 6 to the convention; · International Driving Permit conforms to the provisions of annex 7 to the convention, on condition that it is presented with the corresponding domestic driving licence; · driving licences issued by a contracting party shall be recognised in the territory of another contracting party until this territory becomes the place of normal residence of their holder; · the period of validity of an international driving permit shall be either no more than three years after the date of issue or until the date of expiry of the domestic driving licence, whichever is earlier; · an international driving permit shall only be issued by the contracting party in whose territory the holder has their normal residence" “Normal place of residence” – this gives weight to the idea that those retired or working in the country are required to get a Thai driving licence. Some insurance companies may withdraw cover on those who have been driving without an IP or on an IDP for more than 3 months. IDPs are not meant to last for more tan 3 years from issue, but I’ve seen a 5 year IDP issued by Thailand. So to be free from hassle and safe regards insurance you need an IDP that shows you have a FULL licence for whatever vehicle you are driving (learner licences re all excluded) – it shows the international; categories and if you don’t have it at home it won’t show on your licence. Whether or not the police will/can read this is another matter. BTW – Those of you who have state-issued licences may also encounter problems with road side cops who want to see a nation on them

THat's the old treaty - Thailand only signed on to the later

Gulty conscience?

Perhaps you draw that kind of response....seem to have touched a nerve?

What I found jaw-dropping distasteful was the sight of the PM handing out enormous plastic cheques as if it was for some lottery winners....

I wonder why you feel the need to say that.

I can't see how all these hysterical comments help anyone except those who post them. What is needed is a serious review as how this ever happened and a compassionate program of report. Hardly a single post here about the victims and there families.

We need to look at prevention. It seems they need to review the police recruitment process. .. and the influence of graft.

Isn't that a working definition of a kind of mental illness?

Ghastly.... hardly bear to think about it Another policeman and a legally held gun.

Basically your comparison based on going in a pickup once, is worthless, then.

""remember sitting in an Isuzu once in a grab, probably the worst car I’ve sat in," So, sound likely to you?

The SUV? Based on the pickup truck. You don't know...

I believe this vehicle was built by Thairung, the Thai car manufacturer. It was based on the old Frontera Navara D22 model. So depending on which parts you are after you could chase up Thairung or Nissan. At the end of the Chonburi bypass there are several vehicle dismantlers who might help you with this too. There are also several body shops dotted along Sukhumvit ...you can see the panels and trays stacked up in rows outside Production of the model I'm thinking of ceased around 2006??