kwilco

Definitely not - it's just ireesponsible exploitation of the elephants. = who incidentlly hve a natural fear of floods. 2 have already died in ENP.

It's not th monk I'm worried about - it's using the elephants. Far better to use a 4x4. Walking through flooded water is very dangerous - there is a lot of grabage and trash in tat water that could cut up the elephants feet and putting those racks on their backs is not a good idea- a pickup could carry at lot more.

One has to think about the motivation behind this exercise....I am concerned it has a large publicity element

you are wrong.

I'm fine with "cashless" - but how can I use my foreign cards/phone etc without incurring fees on tiny purchases?

no true - people don't understand cash - tey just think they can avoid tax with it.

I'm not sure of the point you are making in this anecdote.. For 20 years I was getting vehicles taxed and tested, just as most Thai vehicle owners do. The standard of testing however is really I consistent. I think many expats can spent years in Thailand without fully understanding the part that graft nepotism and corruption play in all of Thai society. As soon as they start comparing it to their home country or anywhere else, you know they've got it wrong. Another point is the compared to countries like the UK, vehicles last a lot longer, simply due to the fact of the climate and cost of labour.

Not sure if that is relevant to this thread. But I have driven extensively in Thailand ... longer and further than the average Thai driver. The logic being that why leave to someone else if you consider your driving skills to be better. However in this instance as in most playing the blame game is archaic and pointless. The issues are the behaviour of the vehicles themselves in crashes. What in other countries would be an unfortunate crashturns into a disaster in Thailand due to the lack of safety enforcement by the authorities.

I apologise, but obviously as you say, you may not be so stupid off line. Unfortunately I've got no way to tell. Apparently you know more about the woman off line as well.

Clearer not always, as in your case.

You need to define that - as many coaches in Thailand are coachbuilt on older chassis.

I have for years pointed out the failings due to corruption - you say it as if I'm not aware. I have also worked at several oiol gas and chemical plants in Thailand - several of which have had explosions and fires. Bus and Coach Safety and Construction in Thailand Bus and coach safety is an important issue in Thailand, as buses are a popular mode of transportation for both tourists and locals. The Department of Land Transport (DLT) is responsible for regulating bus and coach safety in Thailand, and it has implemented a number of measures to improve safety standards. Bus Safety Regulations · All buses must be registered with the DLT and must meet certain safety standards. · Buses must be inspected regularly to ensure that they are in good working condition. · Bus drivers must be licensed and must undergo regular training. · Buses must be equipped with seatbelts for all passengers. · Buses must not be overloaded. · Buses must not exceed the speed limit. Bus Construction Standards · Buses must be made of strong, durable materials. · Buses must have a sturdy frame. · Buses must have adequate brakes and steering. · Buses must have good visibility. · Buses must have emergency exits. Enforcement of Bus Safety Regulations The DLT has a number of measures in place to enforce bus safety regulations. These measures include: · Random roadside inspections. · Checkpoints at bus terminals. · Monitoring bus companies' safety records. Public Awareness Campaigns The DLT also runs public awareness campaigns to educate the public about bus safety. These campaigns include: · Distributing leaflets and posters. · Running radio and television advertisements. · Giving talks at schools and community centers. Improvements in Bus Safety As a result of the DLT's efforts, bus safety in Thailand has improved significantly in recent years. The number of bus accidents has decreased, and the number of fatalities has also decreased. However, there are still some challenges to overcome: · Some bus companies do not comply with safety regulations. · Some bus drivers do not drive safely. · Some roads in Thailand are in poor condition. The DLT is continuing to work to improve bus safety in Thailand. Here are some additional tips for staying safe when taking a bus in Thailand: · Choose a reputable bus company. · Book your ticket in advance so that you can get a good seat. · Arrive at the bus terminal early. · Wear your seatbelt. · Do not stand or walk around the bus while it is moving. · Be aware of your surroundings and report any suspicious activity to the bus driver or conductor.

Every bus needs to be re-tested before it's allowed back on te raod - it will take time - but banning school trips per se is not the answer. THe secondary problem is the corruption involved in testing the vehicles - this has been in place for decades.

most of this I wrote about 10 years ago after a fatal crash then..... "“VIP” Buses in the event of an accident are the least safe – size isn’t everything it’s what happens to the passengers that counts. 2016 Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has ordered a ban on the registration of new double-decker tour buses and stricter road worthiness checks for all public transport vehicles. The 4,800 double-decker buses and 16,000 single-deck buses with a height of more than 3.6 metres already in operation must all pass a strict tilt test on a 30 degree slope. Any that fail to pass the test must be taken out of service, Mr Arkhom said." now as then.... Forget the tire! It’s a red herring! Accidents will happen – they occur due to human error but most people don’t understand what human error actually is they mistakenly think it’s down to “stupidity” or “bad driving” – but theirs is the stupidity for not understanding the true nature of human error in road safety. …and that is what is happening in most of the comments on this tragedy. What the crash reports never reveal in Thailand is an accurate picture of what went wrong – they will try to naively apportion blame and sweep the matter under the carpet ASAP. The fact that it has laid bare one of the most critical issues in Thai road safety will be hurriedly ignored. Road safety is a health issue and it is the responsibility of the government (successive governments in Thailand’s case), and the authorities don’t want to face this as it impinges of businesses and their economic plans of untrammelled development. Thailand is not an oil rich country, it depends on imports for its energy – so for years it has been encouraging the use on natural gas to power vehicles. …and this comes with a range of safety responsibilities that the Thai authorities need to enforce – sadly they fall short again and again. They should have been taking precautions to help mitigate the risks associated with the high volatility of CNG, making it a safe and viable fuel alternative for buses and coaches, especially in urban settings where environmental concerns are prioritized. So how can CNG or LNG be used safely? – This is down to the government… here is an overview of the issues that need to be addressed concerning the bus (buses) involved in this incident…… First how is CNG stored on the vehicle? – In high-pressure tanks; it is stored in tanks that are built to stringent safety standards. (reinforced steel, aluminium, or composite materials) designed to withstand high pressure and external impacts…and it looks as if the tanks on the bus retained their structural integrity. Probably imported from China or maybe Europe, they should also periodically inspected and recertified to ensure long-term safety. All these systems are fitted with pressure relief devices to prevent explosions in the event of overpressure or fire, they release gas in a controlled manner when pressure or temperature exceeds safe limits. – but where did the fire start?? Where the tanks are placed is important on trucks it is usually outside behind the cab they can be mounted on the roof or under the chassis of a bus, they should be AWAY from passengers and in areas that are less likely to be affected in the event of a collision. Roof-mounting also helps in case of gas leaks, CNG is lighter than air and will rise and dissipate. All vehicles are fitted with gas leak detection systems - CNG-powered buses are/should be equipped with sensors to detect even small gas leaks. Sensors are installed in key areas such as the engine compartment, fuel storage areas, and the passenger cabin and are connected to alarm systems, which in the event of a leak, the system triggers an alarm to alert the driver AND automatically shuts off the fuel supply to prevent further gas leakage. Did this happen?? In the engine compartment design CNG-powered buses are designed with enhanced ventilation to allow any leaked gas to dissipate quickly and prevent the accumulation of gas that could lead to ignition. – did this happen?? Special care should have been taken to reduce the risk of sparks in the engine compartment. Electrical components are sealed or shielded, and potential sources of sparks are minimized to reduce the likelihood of ignition in the presence of a gas leak. Did this happen or was it some shabby, thrown together back street wiring loom? In the event of a collision or severe mechanical failure, automatic shut-off valves will stop the flow of gas from the tank to the entire vehicle - well this doesn’t seem to have happened at all!! There will also have been a manual shut-off valves that can be operated by the driver or maintenance personnel in case of emergencies, allowing the isolation of the fuel system for added safety. Obviously they were inaccessible due to the heat. What about the onboard fire suppression system? CNG-powered buses should be equipped with fire suppression systems that automatically activate if a fire is detected, particularly in the engine and passenger compartments. These systems are designed to help control or extinguish a fire before it spreads. Thermal fuses are a worry as they are designed to vent gas safely if the tank becomes exposed to high heat from an external fire, reducing the risk of tank rupture. Where they part of the problem? A universal problem in Thailand is that of driving education and training – there appears to be no comprehensive training: Drivers of CNG-powered buses should undergo specialized training to handle safety crises, such as identifying gas leaks, using emergency shut-off systems, and responding to fire alarms or other emergencies. I’d like to know if this company has a training program of any kind. Of course they cost money and you’d have to pay a “skilled” driver more money. Obviously in this appalling case, evacuation procedures failed. Was the driver trained in proper evacuation procedures? One of the 5 Es of road safety is “Engineering” – which covers both vehicles and the road themselves – under this category one had to include maintenance and service of the vehicle – without effective monitoring by the DLT this is a huge gap in Thai road safety. The system relies on the movement of brown envelopes rather than the mechanical health of vehicles. CNG buses require more frequent inspections than their diesel counterparts, especially in areas like fuel storage, fuel lines, and engine compartments. Maintenance personnel need to be trained specifically to work with high-pressure gas systems. Does this happen?? There needs to be regular gas leak testing which should be mandatory to ensure that all seals, hoses, and connections are secure and functioning properly. Tanks need to be inspected and re-certified regularly: All CNG-powered buses are equipped with easily accessible emergency shut-down switches that allow for immediate deactivation of the fuel system in case of an accident or leak. Why did this not happen?? In extreme situations, emergency venting systems can release gas safely from the tanks to prevent pressure build up and potential explosions. – did this go wrong?? Many people have pointed to the “Merc” badge on the front of this vehicle – and that’s what it is – a badge on the front of the vehicle – almost certainly this bus was coach built of a second-hand or imported chassis – even the claim that was a Merc needs to be verified There is virtually no vehicle construction and crash safety regulation enforced in Thailand. Were the fuel systems on this bus crash-tested?: The entire fuel system, including the CNG tanks, lines, and connectors, should be designed to withstand impact forces from collisions. I very much doubt they would stand up to serious scrutiny. So, what is the guarantee that they remain intact and do not rupture in accidents? Did the areas housing CNG tanks have reinforcement with extra protection to minimize damage from external impacts during crashes? We need to ask the coachbuilder!! On all buses passenger awareness is crucial – in this case the adults should be informed of what to do – there should be clear signage and instructions on emergency evacuation and safety procedures need to be posted inside the coaches so that passengers are aware of what to do in case of an emergency. – were they??? It looks as if at least of the emergency exits were unavailable due to where the bus came to rest but buses are equipped with emergency exits and easy-to-use systems for passenger evacuation, on all sides – this is critical in case of a fire or gas leak so what went wrong there? There are loads of questions as yet unanswered about this disaster but it is easy to get that sinking feeling when you realise the chances of them being comprehensively addressed and answers are incredible slim. Saving face will come first.

"a" safety shut-off? THey have multiple safety sytems all over the vehicle - cut-offs, detection warnigs lights and alarms - so are we to believe that NONE of these worked.

behaviour modification? Just sums up the whole attitude of everyone involved - the very idea is suss right from the start - there needs to be a change of mindset not just with uneduv=cated soldiers but parents and schools too.

...and that's where the whole thing collapses and all hope is lost. THat's NOT what they should be doing - the blame game is an idiots way - the problem is systemic and institutionalised - what needs to be done is the total reformation of the system that allows dangerous vehicles on the roads - this is not an isolated event it is the product of decades of negligence as regards to road safety.

Thailand has the regulatory framework in place for coach safety, However, the prevalence of corruption and graft in Thailand's transportation sector is a serious obstacle to ensuring the safety of private charter coaches. While there are regulations in place, enforcement is often undermined by bribery, lack of accountability, and resistance to reform. Addressing these systemic issues is crucial for improving road safety and preventing future accidents. Real progress will require a concerted effort from both the government and civil society to root out corruption and prioritize public safety over profit. Looks llike there’ll be a public outcry – but I wrote about this about 10 years ago – in fact the situation may even have improved – but when the starting point is so low………

Accidents happen - the blow out merely showed the the coach was improperly built - the build of the coach is the issue = it it had been built correctly then whatever the accident there should not have been a fire.

to anyone not just Thai drivers.

AS I mntioed earlier - but that is not the point - the point is WHY? - how come the bus was permitted to be constructed like that (Mercedes, my Arrrrrse)

Human error In the context of road safety and the "Safe System," human error refers to mistakes, lapses, or incorrect actions made by individuals while driving or being involved in road traffic. These errors can occur due to various factors, such as lack of attention, distraction, fatigue, impairment (e.g., due to alcohol or drugs), inadequate driving skills, misjudgement of situations, microsleeps or simply making a wrong decision. The Safe System approach recognizes that humans are fallible and prone to errors, and it aims to design and manage road transport systems in a way that considers human limitations and reduces the risk of serious injuries or fatalities resulting from those errors. The Safe System acknowledges four main components: 1. Safe Road Use: Encouraging drivers and road users to act responsibly, obey traffic rules, and avoid dangerous behaviours like distracted driving or speeding. 2. Safe Roads: Designing roads and infrastructure to minimize the risk of crashes and reduce the severity of potential injuries when crashes occur. This may include measures like installing guardrails, improving visibility, and implementing traffic calming measures. 3. Safe Vehicles: Promoting the use of vehicles equipped with advanced safety features that can mitigate the impact of collisions and protect occupants and other road users. 4. Safe Speeds: Encouraging appropriate speed limits and enforcing them to reduce the likelihood and severity of crashes. By acknowledging the inevitability of human errors and addressing the contributing factors through the Safe System approach, the goal is to create a more forgiving road transport system that minimizes the impact of those errors and ultimately reduces the number of road traffic injuries and fatalities. Human error is considered to be inevitable. Humans are fallible creatures, and despite our best efforts, we are prone to making mistakes. This is a natural aspect of being human, and it applies to various aspects of life, including driving and road safety. In the context of road safety, it is important to acknowledge that humans are not perfect drivers. We can be affected by factors such as fatigue, distraction, stress, and limitations in our attention and perception. These factors can lead to errors in judgment, lapses in concentration, or incorrect actions while driving. The Safe System approach to road safety recognizes the inevitability of human error and aims to design and manage road transport systems in a way that considers these human limitations. Instead of blaming individuals for their mistakes, the focus shifts towards creating a forgiving road environment that reduces the severity of crashes and minimizes the consequences of human errors. Often these are just minor momentary relapses or mistakes it is the CONSEQUENCES that can be mitigated. The number of actual collisions in Thailand is the same as in UK – but it is the consequences that are so different. By addressing the contributing factors and designing the road transport system to accommodate human fallibility, we can make significant progress in improving road safety and reducing the number of accidents and fatalities. This approach involves not only improving road infrastructure and vehicle safety but also promoting responsible road use and adherence to traffic rules to mitigate the impact of human errors on road safety.

I really don't thin I sould be giving your answer the time of day - it is so daft - I said its a red herring not that it din;'t happen - theree really are some dim comments on this thread

Forget the tire! It’s a red herring! Accidents will happen – they occur due to human error but most people don’t understand what human error actually is they mistakenly think it’s down to “stupidity” or “bad driving” – but theirs is the stupidity for not understanding the true nature of human error in road safety. …and that is what is happening in most of the comments on this tragedy. What the crash reports never reveal in Thailand is an accurate picture of what went wrong – they will try to naively apportion blame and sweep the matter under the carpet ASAP. The fact that it has laid bare one of the most critical issues in Thai road safety will be hurriedly ignored. Road safety is a health issue and it is the responsibility of the government (successive governments in Thailand’s case), and the authorities don’t want to face this as it impinges of businesses and their economic plans of untrammelled development. Thailand is not an oil rich country, it depends on imports for its energy – so for years it has been encouraging the use on natural gas to power vehicles. …and this comes with a range of safety responsibilities that the Thai authorities need to enforce – sadly they fall short again and again. They should have been taking precautions to help mitigate the risks associated with the high volatility of CNG, making it a safe and viable fuel alternative for buses and coaches, especially in urban settings where environmental concerns are prioritized. So how can CNG or LNG be used safely? – This is down to the government… here is an overview of the issues that need to be addressed concerning the bus (buses) involved in this incident…… First how is CNG stored on the vehicle? – In high-pressure tanks; it is stored in tanks that are built to stringent safety standards. (reinforced steel, aluminium, or composite materials) designed to withstand high pressure and external impacts…and it looks as if the tanks on the bus retained their structural integrity. Probably imported from China or maybe Europe, they should also periodically inspected and recertified to ensure long-term safety. All these systems are fitted with pressure relief devices to prevent explosions in the event of overpressure or fire, they release gas in a controlled manner when pressure or temperature exceeds safe limits. – but where did the fire start?? Where the tanks are placed is important on trucks it is usually outside behind the cab they can be mounted on the roof or under the chassis of a bus, they should be AWAY from passengers and in areas that are less likely to be affected in the event of a collision. Roof-mounting also helps in case of gas leaks, CNG is lighter than air and will rise and dissipate. All vehicles are fitted with gas leak detection systems - CNG-powered buses are/should be equipped with sensors to detect even small gas leaks. Sensors are installed in key areas such as the engine compartment, fuel storage areas, and the passenger cabin and are connected to alarm systems, which in the event of a leak, the system triggers an alarm to alert the driver AND automatically shuts off the fuel supply to prevent further gas leakage. Did this happen?? In the engine compartment design CNG-powered buses are designed with enhanced ventilation to allow any leaked gas to dissipate quickly and prevent the accumulation of gas that could lead to ignition. – did this happen?? Special care should have been taken to reduce the risk of sparks in the engine compartment. Electrical components are sealed or shielded, and potential sources of sparks are minimized to reduce the likelihood of ignition in the presence of a gas leak. Did this happen or was it some shabby, thrown together back street wiring loom? In the event of a collision or severe mechanical failure, automatic shut-off valves will stop the flow of gas from the tank to the entire vehicle - well this doesn’t seem to have happened at all!! There will also have been a manual shut-off valves that can be operated by the driver or maintenance personnel in case of emergencies, allowing the isolation of the fuel system for added safety. Obviously they were inaccessible due to the heat. What about the onboard fire suppression system? CNG-powered buses should be equipped with fire suppression systems that automatically activate if a fire is detected, particularly in the engine and passenger compartments. These systems are designed to help control or extinguish a fire before it spreads. Thermal fuses are a worry as they are designed to vent gas safely if the tank becomes exposed to high heat from an external fire, reducing the risk of tank rupture. Where they part of the problem? A universal problem in Thailand is that of driving education and training – there appears to be no comprehensive training: Drivers of CNG-powered buses should undergo specialized training to handle safety crises, such as identifying gas leaks, using emergency shut-off systems, and responding to fire alarms or other emergencies. I’d like to know if this company has a training program of any kind. Of course they cost money and you’d have to pay a “skilled” driver more money. Obviously in this appalling case, evacuation procedures failed. Was the driver trained in proper evacuation procedures? One of the 5 Es of road safety is “Engineering” – which covers both vehicles and the road themselves – under this category one had to include maintenance and service of the vehicle – without effective monitoring by the DLT this is a huge gap in Thai road safety. The system relies on the movement of brown envelopes rather than the mechanical health of vehicles. CNG buses require more frequent inspections than their diesel counterparts, especially in areas like fuel storage, fuel lines, and engine compartments. Maintenance personnel need to be trained specifically to work with high-pressure gas systems. Does this happen?? There needs to be regular gas leak testing which should be mandatory to ensure that all seals, hoses, and connections are secure and functioning properly. Tanks need to be inspected and re-certified regularly: All CNG-powered buses are equipped with easily accessible emergency shut-down switches that allow for immediate deactivation of the fuel system in case of an accident or leak. Why did this not happen?? In extreme situations, emergency venting systems can release gas safely from the tanks to prevent pressure build up and potential explosions. – did this go wrong?? Many people have pointed to the “Merc” badge on the front of this vehicle – and that’s what it is – a badge on the front of the vehicle – almost certainly this bus was coach built of a second-hand or imported chassis – even the claim that was a Merc needs to be verified There is virtually no vehicle construction and crash safety regulation enforced in Thailand. Were the fuel systems on this bus crash-tested?: The entire fuel system, including the CNG tanks, lines, and connectors, should be designed to withstand impact forces from collisions. I very much doubt they would stand up to serious scrutiny. So, what is the guarantee that they remain intact and do not rupture in accidents? Did the areas housing CNG tanks have reinforcement with extra protection to minimize damage from external impacts during crashes? We need to ask the coachbuilder!! On all buses passenger awareness is crucial – in this case the adults should be informed of what to do – there should be clear signage and instructions on emergency evacuation and safety procedures need to be posted inside the coaches so that passengers are aware of what to do in case of an emergency. – were they??? It looks as if at least of the emergency exits were unavailable due to where the bus came to rest but buses are equipped with emergency exits and easy-to-use systems for passenger evacuation, on all sides – this is critical in case of a fire or gas leak so what went wrong there? There are loads of questions as yet unanswered about this disaster but it is easy to get that sinking feeling when you realise the chances of them being comprehensively addressed and answers are incredible slim. Saving face will come first.

You clearly haven't read my post or even the OP.