BangkokReady

I don't think it has a bearing on my original point. Women's bodily autonomy re suffering to carry a baby and giving birth, vs. a man's bodily autonomy re having to suffer to work to pay for the upbringing of the baby, when factored into the decision as to whether a man has any say in whether a baby is born or not. how could it?

You're confused because you don't even know what is being discussed. When did I define what a woman's right is regarding abortion? I haven't defined anything. You've come into the discussion half way through and you're arguing from a point of obvious emotionally investment. You think I'm anti-abortion, so you're just trying to attack individual comments without even knowing what I have said.

How does that relate to what have said?

How do men support a child without a supporting father? Please read comments before responding.

How could you possibly be asking me this question when you have been replying to me countless times? I've already stated it very clearly above. What are you doing discussing something when you have literally no idea what is being discussed? I guess this explains why your responses fail to make sense or relate to what I am actually talking about.

I think it's more the other way round. You're the one who thinks that "women work too" has any bearing on what is being discussed.

They don't. Whether they want the child or not, they have to work to pay for it.

So you don't think men should have bodily autonomy when it comes to pregnancy and child rearing?

But not the courts.

@coolcarer if the above confuses you, why have you even been engaging with me? This is the core part of what I have been discussing. Why waste both of our time?

Indeed.

Only until it is born.

So in the question of abortion, women have bodily autonomy, but men do not?

Lol. I'm trying to have an objective discussion. Something you seem incapable of.

No. It's probably more a parental thing.

We're talking more about "legal rights". What people are either allowed or compelled to do by law. We use "rights" as a kind of place holder for that. Once you move to saying "women have an inalienable right to do whatever they want with their body and always will" it doesn't really allow for much debate when it comes to the law, especially when it is joined by "...but men have no choice but to pay."

I'm very extroverted and I enjoy talking to women. It doesn't need to be leading to anything more than polite conversation. I know this seems weird to many people, but that's life. ????‍♂️

It's the stance that you are putting forward through your comments. ????‍♂️ Rights don't actually exist, there are only really laws or "things that people are allowed to do". "Rights" can change over time.

It's feelings based because you cannot really say that the man suffers any impingement of his bodily autonomy. With being forced to have a baby, or being forced to work for 18 years to support a baby, you can make the argument that bodily autonomy is being impinged.

It does nothing of the sort. Saying that a man makes physical effort to earn money is in no way cancelled out by the fact that "women earn money too". It has nothing to do with what I am saying. I'm not discussing deadbeat dads, so, of course, their existence is irrelevant here. I haven't said anything about women staying at home, working, being a housewife, etc.. It literally has no relevance in this at all. I could say the same about you completely disregarding the effects working for 18 years might have on a man.

So your stance is that, no matter what, the man's effort involved in working to pay for a child until they turn 18 can never be as great as the woman's effort in carrying and birthing a child?

You asked and I answered...? "Do you believe that the prospective father should have to right to veto an abortion?" "I think it's harder to make a "bodily autonomy" argument in those circumstances. Isn't that more of a feelings based deal? "I want the baby.""

Yes, of course, that is why I asked you a question directly relating to what you said. This is quite standard for a conversation

How does that change the effect that working has on a man? I think you have misunderstood my comment.

I think it's harder to make a "bodily autonomy" argument in those circumstances. Isn't that more of a feelings based deal? "I want the baby."