citybiker

There is not much to work out!! Britain threw the stone and now is in shambles. If it was not for the Indians,
English would be a minor language by now.

Being a speaker of 3 languages, some more fluent & having travelled globally over 20 years & counting in my experience properly spoken 'Queen's English' is still the more primary language I've come across.

That was a rather substandard and shambolic post to make.


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That the UK's economy is growing faster than the Eurozone's is a FACT. That the UK's economy will slow down/go into recession is SPECULATION. And it's speculation that economic forecasters have been making for the last year, though they are now careful to say that this might happen, so as not to make fools out of themselves like they did last year and have to admit that they were wrong. Which is something you are clearly incapable of doing, in relation to your out-of-date info, and your inept attempt to spin your error into some anti-Murdoch nonsense.

 

A little known fact is people attempting to compare the Eurozone via the Pound when other factors not being taken into account, the research is purely available to re-educate the doubter's.

 

Although, in non LSE speak

 

EU combine '27' Eurozone countries 0.5%

 

V

 

'1' non Eurozone Country (UK) 0.3%

 

If the EU wants to rejoice in its own pointless propaganda way let it.

 

Fluctuation is part of the mechanism, June 24th 2016 rattled but settled soon after & lets not purely focus on media tripe rather than the fiscal facts and the economic industry will look after itself and its clients end of. It makes sense to have 'subsidiary' locations relocate within the EU but it is NOT a comprehensive relocation.

 

All this EU-UK tit for tat is increasingly becoming an embarrassment from the threat creators let alone irritating, the real business comes into affect post June 8th this year.

 

 

 

 

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After watching the childish Junker giving a speech in French & stating the Europe's use of the English language will lessen post Brexit when we're still current 'paying' members sort tells you all you need to know about the pathetic schoolyard tactics the EU are using.

http://www.cityam.com/263956/eu-scared-knows-no-deal-better-britain-than-bad-deal

The level of EU arrogance of do what we tell you, you'll abide by Mr Barnier's Brexit negotiations and only the EU will lead the talks is quite frankly one of the main reasons' why the UK no longer wishes to be part of the dictatorship.

Reality bites..




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I guess it's China's turn to ratchet up the warnings.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/china-calls-on-citizens-to-leave-north-korea-as-tensions-with-us-heat-up/ar-BBAI6zR?li=BBoPWjQ

Diplomacy is & always should be the primary route to peace, if China hasn't the clout to reign in NK through diplomatic methods then I'd be concerned of what the future is for the region.


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The EU have not arrived at any figures for the supposed divorce bill. The amounts being talked about are speculation based on economic modelling 

Which probably explains why Mr Barnier avoided stating the 'actual' figure in Wednesday's speech, quite frankly the EU's hardball economic talk i.e.: going from €50/60 ban to a speculative €100bn tells you roughly all you need to know about the EU.

It's scaremongering tactics which is increasingly appearing to backfire, as it's showing the following:

Consistent Political & economic warnings
Unknown EU officials spuriously claims.
No tangible breakdown of liabilities, pensions and assets.

Summarise, the more the EU play hardball and threaten any kind of legitimate divorce bill the more TM will batten down the hatches and the result will either be hard break no deal WTO and the EU gets SFA. Which is unlikely as outstanding sums have to be settled depending if they're liable by agreement by the UK or EU.

The more the EU continue on this current route of UK bashing (not penalised but no free deal) then TM will be quite right to give the diplomatic Churchill sign and the EU will get €0.



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Depends on your Brexit viewpoint, a clear signal to EU's Junker to pin your ear's back & listen, the UK is no push over.

 

"During the Conservative Party leadership campaign I was described by one of my colleagues as a bloody difficult woman. And I said at the time the next person to find that out will be Jean-Claude Juncker."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39784170

 

(Kenneth Clark (remainer) was & still is the only staunch EU Conservative fan.)

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UK-EU update:

Why is it that an 'unknown EU source' wishes to stir up media hysteria despite May & Junker post dinner saying the dinner was constructive. (Abiet Junker senses staunch Euroskeptic approach)

Summary, It's well documented that the EU wants to air its dirty laundry in public, while May wants it behind doors in private without commentary.

Also, it appears unsurprisingly EU dirty tricks showing its ugly head
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/01/revealed-eu-has-secretly-plotting-block-theresa-may-eu-migrants/


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Bloomberg reporting polls showing UKIP vote collapsing in favour of the Tories.

I'd be cautious from left wing Bloomberg analysis however UKIP will struggle in this GE that's for sure, if they get one seat it's a bonus even if it's Nuttal's Skegness & Boston challenge.

Attempting to acquire a credible source on the forthcoming GE when many parties have their own staunch agenda is near pointless. UKIP's main focus is survival and pressurising the Tories on a pragmatic Brexit.




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Whereas the remain campaign was at all times a veritable model of reasoned argument, tolerance and an overwhelming desire to see both sides of the argument, was it not?

A nice example of anti Brexit propaganda.
(IIRC the river Thames stand off with the then UKIP leader was Geldof's target).

Hypocrisy at its finest from the Irish Bob Geldof..


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For all those that may wish to scrutinise the EU draft in full.

NOTE

 

From: General Secretariat of the Council

 

To: Delegations

 

Subject: European Council (Art. 50) (29 April 2017) Draft guidelines following the United Kingdom's notification under Article 50 TEU

 

Delegations will find attached the draft European Council (Art. 50) guidelines following the United Kingdom's notification under Article 50 TEU, prepared by the President of the European Council.

 

On 29 March 2017, the European Council has received the notification by the United Kingdom of its intention to withdraw from the European Union and Euratom. This allows for the opening of negotiations as foreseen by the Treaty.

 

European integration has brought peace and prosperity to Europe and allowed for an unprecedented level and scope of cooperation on matters of common interest in a rapidly changing world. Therefore, the Union's overall objective in these negotiations will be to preserve its interests, those of its Member States, its citizens and its businesses. The United Kingdom's decision to leave the Union creates significant uncertainties that have the potential to cause disruption, in particular in the UK but also in other Member States.

 

Citizens who have built their lives on the basis of rights flowing from the British membership of the EU face the prospect of losing those rights. Businesses and other stakeholders will lose the predictability and certainty that come with EU law. With this in mind, we must proceed according to a phased approach giving priority to an orderly withdrawal.

 

In these negotiations the Union will act as one. It will be constructive throughout and will strive to find an agreement. This is in the best interest of both sides. The Union will work hard to achieve that outcome, but it will prepare itself to be able to handle the situation also if the negotiations were to fail. These guidelines define the framework for negotiations under Article 50 TEU and set out the overall positions and principles that the Union will pursue throughout the negotiation. The European Council will remain permanently seized of the matter, and will update these guidelines in the course of the negotiations as necessary.

 

CORE PRINCIPLES

 

1. The European Council will continue to base itself on the principles set out in the statement of Heads of State or Government and of the Presidents of the European Council and the European Commission on 29 June 2016. It reiterates its wish to have the United Kingdom as a close partner in the future. It further reiterates that any agreement with the United Kingdom will have to be based on a balance of rights and obligations, and ensure a level-playing field. Preserving the integrity of the Single Market excludes participation based on a sector-bysector approach. A non-member of the Union, that does not live up to the same obligations as a member, cannot have the same rights and enjoy the same benefits as a member. In this context, the European Council welcomes the recognition by the British Government that the four freedoms of the Single Market are indivisible and that there can be no "cherry picking".

2. Negotiations under Article 50 TEU will be conducted as a single package. In accordance with the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, individual items cannot be settled separately. The Union will approach the negotiations with unified positions, and will engage with the United Kingdom exclusively through the channels set out in these guidelines and in the negotiating directives. So as not to undercut the position of the Union, there will be no separate negotiations between individual Member States and the United Kingdom on matters pertaining to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Union.

II. A PHASED APPROACH TO NEGOTIATIONS

 

3. On the date of withdrawal, the Treaties will cease to apply to the United Kingdom, to those of its overseas countries and territories currently associated to the Union, and to territories for whose external relations the United Kingdom is responsible. The main purpose of the negotiations will be to ensure the United Kingdom's orderly withdrawal so as to reduce uncertainty and, to the extent possible, minimise disruption caused by this abrupt change.To that effect, the first phase of negotiations will aim to: – settle the disentanglement of the United Kingdom from the Union and from all the rights and obligations the United Kingdom derives from commitments undertaken as Member State; – provide as much clarity and legal certainty as possible to citizens, businesses, stakeholders and international partners on the immediate effects of the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the Union. The European Council will monitor progress closely and determine when sufficient progress has been achieved to allow negotiations to proceed to the next phase.

4. While an agreement on a future relationship between the Union and the United Kingdom as such can only be concluded once the United Kingdom has become a third country, Article 50 TEU requires to take account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union in the arrangements for withdrawal. To this end, an overall understanding on the framework for the future relationship could be identified during a second phase of the negotiations under Article 50. The Union and its Member States stand ready to engage in preliminary and preparatory discussions to this end in the context of negotiations under Article 50 TEU, as soon as sufficient progress has been made in the first phase towards reaching a satisfactory agreement on the arrangements for an orderly withdrawal.

5. To the extent necessary and legally possible, the negotiations may also seek to determine transitional arrangements which are in the interest of the Union and, as appropriate, to provide for bridges towards the foreseeable framework for the future relationship. Any such transitional arrangements must be clearly defined, limited in time, and subject to effective enforcement mechanisms. Should a time-limited prolongation of Union acquis be considered, this would require existing Union regulatory, budgetary, supervisory and enforcement instruments and structures to apply.

6. The core principles set out above should apply equally to the negotiations on an orderly withdrawal, to any preliminary and preparatory discussions on the framework for a future relationship, and to any form of transitional arrangements.

7. The two year timeframe set out in Article 50 TEU ends on 29 March 2019. III.

AGREEMENT ON ARRANGEMENTS FOR AN ORDERLY WITHDRAWAL

 

8. The right for every EU citizen, and of his or her family members, to live, to work or to study in any EU Member State is a fundamental aspect of the European Union. Along with other rights provided under EU law, it has shaped the lives and choices of millions of people. Agreeing reciprocal guarantees to settle the status and situations at the date of withdrawal of EU and UK citizens, and their families, affected by the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the Union will be a matter of priority for the negotiations. Such guarantees must be enforceable and non-discriminatory.

9. Also, the United Kingdom leaving the Union will impact EU businesses trading with and operating in the United Kingdom and UK businesses trading with and operating in the Union. Similarly, it may affect those who have entered into contracts and business arrangements or take part in EU-funded programmes based on the assumption of continued British EU membership. Negotiations should seek to prevent a legal vacuum once the Treaties cease to apply to the United Kingdom and, to the extent possible, address uncertainties.

10. A single financial settlement should ensure that the Union and the United Kingdom both respect the obligations undertaken before the date of withdrawal. The settlement should cover all legal and budgetary commitments as well as liabilities, including contingent liabilities.

11. The Union has consistently supported the goal of peace and reconciliation enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement, and continuing to support and protect the achievements, benefits and commitments of the Peace Process will remain of paramount importance. In view of the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland, flexible and imaginative solutions will be required, including with the aim of avoiding a hard border, while respecting the integrity of the Union legal order. In this context, the Union should also recognise existing bilateral agreements and arrangements between the United Kingdom and Ireland which are compatible with EU law.

12. The Union should agree with the United Kingdom on arrangements as regards the Sovereign Base Areas of the United Kingdom in Cyprus and recognise in that respect bilateral agreements and arrangements between the Republic of Cyprus and the United Kingdom which are compatible with EU law, in particular as regards the situation of those EU citizens resident or working in the Sovereign Base Areas.

13. Following the withdrawal, the Union with 27 Member States will continue to have the rights and obligations of the Union with 28 Member States in relation to international agreements. The United Kingdom will no longer be covered by agreements concluded by the Union or by Member States acting on its behalf or by both acting jointly. The European Council expects the United Kingdom to honour its share of international commitments contracted in the context of its EU membership. In such instances, a constructive dialogue with the United Kingdom on a possible common approach towards third country partners and international organisations concerned should be engaged.

14. While the future location of the seats of EU agencies and facilities located in the United Kingdom is a matter for the 27 Member States, arrangements should be found to facilitate their transfer.

15. Arrangements ensuring legal certainty and equal treatment should be found for all court procedures pending before the Court of Justice of the European Union upon the date of withdrawal that involve the United Kingdom or natural or legal persons in the United Kingdom. The Court of Justice of the European Union should remain competent to adjudicate in these procedures. Similarly, arrangements should be found for administrative procedures pending before the European Commission and Union agencies upon the date of the withdrawal that involve the United Kingdom or natural or legal persons in the United Kingdom. In addition, arrangements should be foreseen for the possibility of administrative or court proceedings to be initiated post-exit for facts that have occurred before the withdrawal date.

16. The withdrawal agreement should include appropriate dispute settlement mechanisms regarding the application and interpretation of the withdrawal agreement, as well as duly circumscribed institutional arrangements allowing for the adoption of measures necessary to deal with situations not foreseen in the withdrawal agreement. This should be done bearing in mind the Union's interest to effectively protect its autonomy and its legal order, including the role of the Court of Justice of the European Union.

IV. PRELIMINARY AND PREPARATORY DISCUSSIONS ON A FRAMEWORK FOR THE UNION - UNITED KINGDOM FUTURE RELATIONSHIP

 

17. The European Council welcomes and shares the United Kingdom's desire to establish a close partnership between the Union and the United Kingdom after its departure. While a relationship between the Union and a non Member State cannot offer the same benefits as Union membership, strong and constructive ties will remain in both sides' interest and should encompass more than just trade.

18. The British government has indicated that it will not seek to remain in the single market, but would like to pursue an ambitious free trade agreement with the European Union. Based on the Union's interests, the European Council stands ready to initiate work towards such an agreement, to be finalised and concluded once the United Kingdom is no longer a Member State.

19. Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field in terms of competition and state aid, and must encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, fiscal, social and environmental dumping.

20. Beyond trade, the EU stands ready to consider establishing a partnership in other areas, in particular the fight against terrorism and international crime as well as security and defence.

21. The future partnership must include appropriate enforcement and dispute settlement mechanisms that do not affect the Union's autonomy, in particular its decision-making procedures.

22. After the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom.

V. PRINCIPLE OF SINCERE COOPERATION

 

23. Until it leaves the Union, the United Kingdom remains a full Member of the European Union, subject to all rights and obligations set out in the Treaties and under EU law, including the principle of sincere cooperation.

24. The European Council recognises the need, in the international context, to take into account the specificities of the United Kingdom as a withdrawing Member State, provided it remains loyal to the Union's interests while still a Member. Similarly the Union expects the United Kingdom to recognise the need of the 27 Member States to meet and discuss matters related to the situation after the withdrawal of the United Kingdom.

25. While the United Kingdom is still a member, all ongoing EU business must continue to proceed as smoothly as possible at 28. The European Council remains committed to drive forward with ambition the priorities the Union has set itself. Negotiations with the United Kingdom will be kept separate from ongoing Union business, and shall not interfere with its progress.

VI. PROCEDURAL ARRANGEMENTS FOR NEGOTIATIONS UNDER ARTICLE 50

 

26. The European Council endorses the arrangements set out in the statement of 27 Heads of State or Government on 15 December 2016.

 

A very brief summary as I only managed to get as far as serial #10

 

Single payment...

 

IIRC Mr Barnier made it clear that it was the 'format' of the sum to be agreed, and in the EU's own hard line draft (it's clear the EU wants Hard Brexit not the UK) that Barnier was either misinformed, poorly advised or bluffing to the media or anyone else who raised the issue.

(Or perhaps Barnier was fully aware of the 'complete' draft at the time.

 

Mr Barnier: Chief EU negotiator.

 

Either way, confrontational is likely to an understatement.

 

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EU wishes brexiters to stop whining "But, we are so important, can't you see we are leaving? Why don't you try to stop us leaving. We are so important!"
 
You are not.  Please just brexit. Get on with it. We have more important things to take care of. 

I assure you not 'all' of us are either whining or think we're so important, one factor being regularly ignored is the consistent media tripe that's being aired by the anti-Brexit brigade. We also just want to get on with it.

Lastly, People's viewpoint should be mutually respected irrespective if it's disagreed or not by other forum members, constructive criticism is refreshingly welcome although individual country slander just to poorly prove a point just fails to win the argument and lessens the strength of the narrative within the post.


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So you do understand why EU wishes brexit to happen as soon as possible?

 

I understand that the EU wants to deter other members from taking a similar route. The EU also wants Brexit on 'they're term's' focusing on the EU's four pillars along with a ridiculously exacerbated exit bill.

None of the above is going to be resolved as soon as possible despite what many EU hardliners hope or want to achieve.


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This concludes in beautiful way, why we are happy that brexit was finally launched.
 
It was, after all, a cancer treatment for EU. It does hurt for an while, but later on life is better.

Please excuse me if I'll refrain from unnecessarily lowering the debate tone on the same level as some on here however Junker et al has also said they'd quite happily welcome the return of the UK someday, which is nice and diplomatically put.

It was a beautiful conclusion the British people (UK) voted to leave the fractious EU. It's a global world out there & many, although wary and cautious are relieved the opportunity is now freely an option.

I do not under no accounts mean no ill will towards our European neighbours, as neighbours we always continue to be. However, as for political ties, the long over-run marriage has run it's course.


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17 years, 17 F'n years We EU people listened this guy from RT/UK.
 
17 years of offensive behavior inside EU. 17 years is enough.

Since then we have seen him visiting  Russia's  own spies at Ecuadorian Embassy.

If you think he works for UK, you are wrong. 
 
17 years
 

Mr Nigel Farage deserves a 'knighthood' after the years of dealing with the EU, I've been watching the way the EU deals with unconventional challenges.

Offensive behaviour?

Oh dear me, please don't confuse his behaviour with 'harsh truth'.

It's something the EU can't handle, end of.






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The EUs virtual refusal to countenance any of the reforms suggested by the UK (David Cameron - hardly hostile to the organisation) was one of the significant factors in my decision, and I suspect many others decisions, to vote to leave. There is, realistically, no chance of reform whilst the organisation is run by a self selecting unelected and therefore essentially unaccountable cabal.
 

I fully concur.

It's more a political cartel.

And those on here are even more deluded if they expect the EU to self reform once the UK goes, the denial gravy train continues..


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I agree that the EU does indeed require serious and urgent reform. However IMHO such reform is possible and achievable....

Well there's certainly no urgent signs of tangible reforms are there?


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Test failed
 
better to take them out now, before they get the bugs worked out

I think Rex & Trump may have slightly different (personal) viewpoints on how to deal with NK however China is clearly the US best proxy neighbour in dealing with NK, military force alone 'will not' work in that region and I admire and like Rex's diplomatic terminology approach.

Kim Jun-Un is not insane, if he was then the situation would be much more serious than it currently is.


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Well, I think most opinions are biased by definition!

 

I was asked not so long ago to say what I thought was good about the EU. I posted an initial list of 42 points which elicited a few comments from L G only. I offered to post a list of my next 50 points but no takers! 

 

Tell you what, why not provide us a list of your top 20 points where "Brussels " interference has negatively affected us? 

 

Look, nobody is saying the EU is perfect. Far from it. Strasbourg / Brussels is bonkers for example. But overall, the UK has done well. If it ain't broke don't fix it ( to coin an awful Americanism)

 

Van you really not see how the Con Party shafts the middle class?

 

I do like & admire your bonkers summary, and yes like Westminster isn't perfect either.

 

However, we respectfully clearly disagree that the EU does require fixing yet the EU have no intention of badly needed self reform but prefer diplomatic hot air over action.

 

 

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It's been damn good for the UK.
 
Most issues which give cause for complaint are Westminster issues, not Brussels.

Damn good?

Rather biased unbalanced viewpoint Grouse?

Rather interesting that it's primarily the SNP that always complains about Westminster despite being given increased devolution to Scotland.

Most complaints are due to Brussel's-Westminster over-ruling/interference, however I suppose the SNP would prefer to be ruled by Brussel's rather than Westminster.


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When are people going to get IT. It's not about Economics. It's about unelected men with no recourse to them. Making Decisions for 500 million people in secret. That's Dictatorship. Britain fought two world wars for freedom. That's what it's about. Nothing to do with money or Economlcs.

 

Even in big bold capitals, some on here will remain in denial/ignorant & still not get that fact.

 

The EU has proven it's unfit for purpose, the UK is pursuing a global future not simply tied to a tunnel vision dictatorship.

 

 

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Well said that cat. Blairs got some bottle he'd win over all corners and unite us much better than this secretary.

He united the Middle East really well in his previous peace envoy job....




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NK at it again..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39750240


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Oh dear....

It'll be interesting to see if China honours it word on ongoing NK 'sanctions'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39750240


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Like the innocent brazilian they shot on the train a few back.
Watching the poor bugger for months believing he was an arab terrorist .
What a balls up and utter disgrace.
British and intelligence should not be part of the same sentence.

Because if the world was perfect, it wouldn't be....


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I'd go further and say it was a really stupid thing to say. But then, the reasoning behind it pointed out the falseness of the post it was aimed at.

As you've failed to elaborated on your analysis along with certain post terminology I'll refrain from your post contributions on this thread.



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