Chomper Higgot

Are not the COVID vaccines modern medicine? Have you missed the reports of people refusing to accept them?

And yet so many eschew the benefits of modern medicine.

Let me guess. No health insurance either.

Wealth disparity has certainly increased, but the pandemic did not start that process. It has however brought the issue to the political forefront along with changing the discussion on the issue.

As I have commented before, inconveniences aside, the pandemic has provided many with opportunities they have eagerly grasped and gained from. The ‘new normal’ is not the ‘old normal’ which for very many was already broken.

Are you and your wife being asked to go for a test?

“He also said that unvaccinated people were no longer citizens.” link please

You’ll not get an argument from me against people seeking medical advice from their doctor, I frequently make the comment myself. But this is an anonymous Internet forum and like it or not, what people read online impacts their thoughts.

I’m not at all surprised you don’t know. You also seem to not know the topic is not other people’s body weight.

Let me see if you can grasp this. An overweight person who is vaccination has a much lower chance of being made seriously ill, hospitalized or killed by COVID than does an unvaccinated overweight person.

The realpolitik reality for political leaders like Macron who promote vaccination for their nation’s citizens is clear. Anti-vaxxers are not going to vote for a pro-vaccine leader/party. Anti-vaxxers are a minority. Anti-vaxxers are disproportionately consuming health services and associated budgets. Everyone is sick of the pandemic, the majority are doing their bit to see the back of it by getting vaccinated, the anti-vaxxers are freeloading on the majority. Of course Macron is going to target the anti-vaxxers; there are no votes in pandering to them and positive reception to the move amongst the majority who are vaccinated. There is sound reasoning behind Macron’s move. What needs explaining is political leaders who promote anti-vaccine anti-public health measure messaging that results in their own supporters being at increased risk of serious illness, hospitalization and death. Promoting the increased likelihood of death amongst your own political base defies logic.

“I bet they're counting non-related admissions if they're unvaccinated and if they're vaccinated only counted if they are admitted directly because of COVID.” A baseless assertion, baseless assertions seemingly being your thing today.

The vaccines have saved countless numbers of people from serious illness, hospitalization and death together with the associated human grief and costs of treatment. Those are in the bag. The vaccines have done a great job and continue to do so. —— Your alternative is?

One more point to Godwin.

Can please provide examples of anyone on this forum quoting these individuals as references to anything at all relating to the COVID vaccines.

You stick with quotes out of context and unsubstantiated claims. I’ll stick with the data. The unvaccinated are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized or die. Let’s go Darwin!

Well it makes a change from those other political leaders exploiting anti-vaccine misinformation with the predicted outcome of large numbers of unnecessary serious illnesses, hospitalizations and deaths.

A post on this was removed, so I’ll have to refer you to the widely available information on a topic you seem to have an interest in.

I seem to recall you singing this crowd’s praises.

Big business is already controlling all those things.

Refer my last post above regarding my views on the right to treatment. But your post raises a couple of other issues: Countries that provide public healthcare. Flipping your argument, if the state provides your health care paid for by taxation then the state has a strong argument for mandating vaccines to reduce costs to tax payers. For nations without public health (or more likely for market driven health care systems) the insurers have a vested interest in increasing premiums for people refusing vaccination.

I do not support the view that anyone should ever for any reason be refused the medical treatment they need. The health care systems are resourced to provide medical treatment that barely meets the predictable demand (life style diseases are part of that predictable demand). A pandemic is above and beyond the predictable demand and those refusing vaccination are placing a significantly disproportionate demand on health services. I nevertheless believe anti-Vaxxers should, like your hyperbole bi-weekly overdosing junkies, receive medical treatment when they need it. I don’t believe it ‘ridiculous’ that hospital beds are being taken up by people who have refused vaccination, rather it is predictable and almost entirely unnecessary. For this reason, among others, I support vaccine mandates.

Nonsense. One need only look at public donations in the UK, US and Europe to help with overseas disasters, famines and health crises to reveal the holes in your characteristically negative view.

All very true. But what the anti-vaxxers demonstrate is something entirely different. They are absolutely aware that the virus is killing large numbers of people, while making many more seriously ill and filling hospital beds with its victims. The facts and the science are clear, the vaccines dramatically reduces the number of serious illness, hospitalization and deaths. And yet anti-vaxxers actively disseminate misinformation that undermines the fight against this wretched disease. Moreover, many of those actively disseminating anti-vaccines misinformation have themselves been vaccinated. Your post speaks to the sin of omission, a sad reality of human failings, but propagating anti-vaccine misinformation during a pandemic is an act of informed commission. A completely different order of callous behavior.

You made the claim, it’s for you to provide the evidence. YT and FB won’t cut it, but at least you’ve admitted where you are getting your nonsense ideas from.