Morch

That would be you trying to force your own point of view on what I said (this is the part where you will 'explain' to me what I 'really' meant). That happens when you find a pet 'issue' and push it regardless of what's posted, and while at it, try to frame everyone else's posts and words to fit your argument. A 'more targeted approach' is neither what the issue is, nor is it a clear solution to Israel's dilemma. You are conflating, intentionally or otherwise, between two different things. A 'more targeted approach' would not have much consequence as per the chances to release the hostage, other than, perhaps, bringing less pressure to bear on Hamas. It would help the PR angle some, maybe. What Eisenkot (and others) are about is more to do with cutting a deal, releasing the hostages (as many as possible, at least) first. The notion is that ongoing military action will not bring this about. These issues were, indeed, discussed. But the ones airing them earlier on were not in the same level of decision making and power. Even Eisenkot's previous reservations were framed more carefully than that - and I don't think he expressed them from the very beginning of this war. I really don't care about your sensations, and there was no 'stumble' other than in your imagination (again, this where you'll probably 'explain' to me what I 'actually' meant etc.).

That's got nothing to do with the question you were asked. As I recall, you did your best to dodge it on past occasions as well. Do note that what Eisenkot says is current, I don't know that this was his exact position from the start. Also, the man lost a son in the fighting - assume it also plays a part in the way he perceives things.

On various occasions we were told they were from Turkey, Morocco and Israel. Maybe more so on tourist season.

A lot of the tomatoes you get in Greece are imported.

What does it have to do with my comment? I was addressing the manner in which the poster articulates his criticism. When criticized, he claims to have issues with Netanyahu and Israel's right wing. Fair enough. Then again, a whole lot of his posts are actually framed as above - lumping Israel and Israelis together with the latter two. Add to this the 'respect and gratitude' bit.

I don't think Netanyah plans that far ahead. He deals with what he sees as the more immediate threat (to himself) first, and with the consequences - later. And it doesn't have to be anything as straightforward planning anyway - shuffle the cards, play the hand. Trump is unpredictable, so a whole lot can change - maybe for Netanyahu's benefit, maybe not.

@ozimoron More nonsense. Iran does not have a nuclear device. If and when they demonstrate otherwise, and when they succeeded coupling it with a warhead, and make it operational, than they would have something like a deterrent. As for the 'they could easily obtain' bit - why would Russia supply them with something like that? How does it help Russia's agenda? To whom did Russia supply such missiles? You're just making up stuff now. Detonate a bomb over Tel Aviv? You mean the bomb they do not have? And this super-smart-non-existent Iranian bomb will not effect Palestinians at all? Nor would it result in a more massive strike on Iran by Israel? the USA? You go on and on about Iran''s supposed nuclear capabilities and attack on Tel Aviv - yet somehow end up blaming Netanyahu? Even by the standard of your usual ramblings, this takes the cake.

The world doesn't seem as enthusiastic as you are.

More nonsense. What 'strategic missile'? Do you even know what you're talking about? If Israel wished to 'wipe everyone out' in the Gaza Strip, casualty lists would be way longer. A whole lot of these 25,000 Palestinians are Hamas men. You lumping them all together for greater effect doesn't change facts, but highlights your dishonesty.

@ozimoron That's what you often post here. It's still wrong. It is not necessarily a war crime, it is actually condoned under certain circumstances. This was pointed out and explained, in detail, numerous times. Your persistence won't change facts.

It was not 'debunked'. You keep saying that about stuff, but it is not true. Just saying 'debunked' doesn't make it so. You certainly did not 'debunk' anything earlier. Oh, and here comes the 'racist' card, just when you run out of nonsense points and can't defend your arguments. No, you do not think all lives are equal. You do not care much about Palestinians being led to the slaughter by their own leadership. Your sole interest in this is the propaganda value it represents vs. Israel. In this, you're not unlike the Hamas leaders.

Maybe you are following different news than others. These topics are filled with links to reports, articles, and whatnot condemning Israel. As for atrocities - no. Each day the hostages are held by Hamas, reinforces them atrocities. It is not 'over' because it happened on 7/10. Where did you see anything remotely 'gung ho style' in my posts? I think you're just setting up a new deflection.

Hamas got an extensive network of tunnels all over the Gaza Strip. It serves to protect Hamas men. It could have opened the gates to Gazans, at least the children. The choice was not to do so. How does it square with 'no measures to protect'? Also, Hamas choice, when building it's military capabilities reflect that lack of care - if they wanted to, they could have invested in more defensive measures. They did not. Netanyahu does not take orders from Hamas, that's just a daft deflection. The point made was that Hamas patently does not care about the lives of the civilians under it's rule. You cannot lay all the blame on Israel, without accounting for Hamas choices. It's not about 'punishing' Palestinians - it's about their own leadership making bad choices for them. Somehow you seem to think that's Israel's responsibility as well. Debunked how? Hamas leaders are on record calling on the citizenry to remain in place, face the Israeli troops just before the ground move began. As Gazans were scrambling to leave the North of the Gaza Strip, there were incidents of Hamas men setting up roadblocks etc. This was covered on these topics numerous times, back when. Not sure what your point was about the tunnels, or how do you think it 'debunked' anything. Israel did not start this war. Hamas still holds Israeli citizens hostage. If you're current complaint is about dead Palestinians, then it should be (and it isn't, obviously) the Palestinian leadership's interest to stop the war. Hamas's choice is to go on, despite the death toll. Somehow you expect Israel to care more about Palestinians than Hamas does.

This is nothing new. It was discussed on previous topics, and links detailing such doubts and disagreements were posted as well.

@ozimoron Nonsense. Wars (especially nowadays) often involve parties which are not state-level actors.

@ozimoron There was nothing in the post your replied to about IDF, justification or the rest of your contrived 'outrage'. It is not only Hamas that hates Israelis. And Hamas is not into talking much, at least about nothing realistic. notably, your calls for talk, ceasefire and so on are directed at only one of the sides. Fancy that.

@ozimoron No, that would be you deflecting. The point made was that while large organizations may be audited, it does not imply they can account for all funds. You brought up some bogus comment about 'insinuate' which was not part of the post. It's what you do.

@ozimoron You do this (asking for old links) on a regular basis. Unbelievable.

Oh, so you decide what's 'enough' now? We can just let it go, then?

Hamas started this knowing what Israel's response would be. Hamas took no measures to protect Palestinian civilians. Hamas leaders talked about the death toll as a 'necessary sacrifice' for 'the cause'. Hamas encouraged Palestinians to stay put instead of evacuate, and even hindered some from doing so. All them tunnels could have hosted at least some of them dead children. Hamas could end the fighting tomorrow, if it chose to. It does not. Any other excuses for Hamas you wish to make?

@ozimoron Now you're just randomly replying to stuff? All this waffle coming from someone who puts others on 'ignore' because he can't deal with facts and differing opinions. Same goes for the constant insistence of posting things not grounded in fact and reality, and the rest of your nonsense.

Your comments here amount to Israel Bad. At the same time you acknowledge Hamas ought to be removed from the equation. You do not offer anything but criticism, though - and one-sided one. Do you know of many wars in which innocents were spared? Do you not see Hamas as responsible for the safety and well being of its own civilians?

He thought he was the King of America Where they pour Coca Cola just like vintage wine Now I try hard not to become hysterical But I'm not sure if I am laughing or crying I wish that I could push a button And talk in the past and not the present tense And watch this hurtin' feeling Disappear like it was common sense It was a fine idea at the time Now it's a brilliant mistake (Elvis Costello, Brilliant Mistake) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhGaTIvMh-s

@ozimoron Well, you are obviously biased.

You're trying to paint the Palestinians as some pro-equality, pro-democracy crowd, with Israel painted into the opposing corner. You have no clue. Hamas gets a whole lot of support - does it represent any of the required values? Does the PA embodies them? Do Palestinian sentiment align with what you tout? Have a look at the Middle East. Find a country managing harmonic co-existence between groups, plus all the democracy stuff. Then get back to reality.