TroubleandGrumpy

Mate - you have serious issues and need help. That response of mine you quoted was to Mike not yourself. Get a grip - relax - and then move along yourself mate. No wonder so many of us avoid other Expats in the streets. We saw a bloke today and he looked very weird and strange - and it is clear you are the same.

Can you provide any link/advice as to how this is true Charlie? Has the Thai RD provided a ruling in this matter? Maybe answered already - I have not read all the pages yet - will do soon as possible

Technicality BUT it should read - "taxable income over 120K". Having income over 120K does not mean you have to lodge a tax return. 120K income is not 120K taxable income - if you have exemptions, allowances, offsets, and other deductions.

That was me laughing Mike. You remind me of the bloke that throws the two coins up in the air on Anzac Day.

The thing with agents that I found is that you should get one that operates in your Province because they know all the IOs thgere and know how that Office operates. I know one in Bangkok I used years ago - if you are in Bangkok DM me. If not, then maybe go to the local Immigration Office and watch them - they are the ones going around organising everyone - get there early.

Get real Danny Boy and grow up - part of which is admitting when you are wrong. You were and are wrong.

If you were talking about women I would call you a simp Mike. I will point out that very few Expats are happy to pay income taxes in a country that treats them like Thailand does. If they offered me residency (not full citizenship) in an easier to get and realistic format (like my Thai wife when she was living in Australia), gave me full legal rights (like you know who), gave me medical services (like you know who), did not require 3 monthly reporting to Police and annual begging/requests to stay (like you know who never had to), same pricing for everything (like you know who), and so many other rights and services available to all Thais, who pay or dont pay income taxes, then I would be happy to pay income taxes - mate. Yes - that statement clearly states that they expect foreign companies, residents (expats), and tourists, 'to foot more of the bill'. Wake up Mike - Thailand wants Expats to pay even more taxes than they do now, which is way more than the average Thai (VAT, Sales excise, Customs duty, etc.), and charge them extra for all Government services provided to them (Parks, Hospitals, etc etc) - but will give them nothing for that. If this was a Government wide campaign to provide Expats with benefits in return for taking more of our money as income taxes, then I would be more positive about this. But like so many other Expats who have 'put up' with all the inequity and unfairness dished out, because of the many advantages of living in Thailand including paying no income taxes, this is really leaving me with a bad taste about Thailand as a place to live. And please dont be an ignorant idiot and say 'then leave' - because that is what myself and many other Expats will do if they impose income taxes on me. As I have said many times - I have calculated that I have no income tax due to Thailand RD. But how do I know that will be accepted - what happens if they disagree - what idiot will bring in 5-10 Million Baht in a year to buy a property and a new car on this basis?? Get real Mike - this is a clusterphar...

Well said mate - and a totally rational and logical statement about the illogal and irrational 'thing' that is the Thailand Bureacracy and Government. May I add to your list - cannabis reform, TAT and their predictions, annual extensions, health insurance, tourist tax on arrival, building new airport buildings, roads and monorails, dealing with the smoke problems, the last election, and ........... there is so much more, but enough for now. This place is a totally disorganised rabble of rampant corruption and nepotism - the odds of them getting this new tax rule correct and not absolutely screing it up - are higher than Man Utd winning the Champions League this year. Plan well folks and be ready - who knows how this will end up - could be great (through sheer luck), and it could be an absolute clusterphar..........

I hear you - but what you wrote could be read by someone who does not know what you did not say, and thiunk it means that they dont have to file a tax return under a DTA (if that is required by Thai RD). Your last claim is wrong for things that are taxabale in both countries. Where the 'host' country has taken taxes, those paid taxes can be used as a credit, against what taxes may be due in the country where a person is resident. You can be taxed in both countries for some things - but not for things specifically excluded in that DTA - like Govt Pensions.

I have had very few good interactions with any agent in Thailand. It all depends on the person you get in contact with - that includes every one of those mentioned here.

Go see a doctor and get tested - maybe something you caught.

Until the Thai Police actually enforce the laws on the roads, rather than just turn up after the accident, nothing will change in Thailand.

Find a good honest Visa agent

Visiitng Russia - not a good idea - or Ukraine.

Yes I also agree with all that Sheryle - absolutely true. I know a couple of taxation people here in Thailand - the only viable way to claim under a DTA would be to use their services. That is why I hope the Thai RD advises exactly what you have stated - Expats do not have to lodge a tax return if they believe/calculate that they do not have any tax payable in Thailand. So far that has not happened - it was 'implied' under the old tax rule and universally applied - but this rule change means that the Thai RD should IMO formly clarify that point, and not just expect us all to wait and see what happens.

I saw a media press release that stated that the BOI had asked the Thai RD to confirm that their LTR Visa exemption still applied under the new tax rule change.

I hear you Sheryle - and that is all good. But if I may make two points. 1. There seems to be a 'wave' of belief amongst posters that a DTA means no tax. That is the first thing I am responding to - and I am stating that is not automatically the case. Each Expat should very carefully determine if they do not have to pay income taxes (not just say 'DTA means no tax'). Then and only then, should they believe that they have no tax to pay. I am experienced in tax laws in Aust (business and personal) and I have researched the 'laws' here and I have calculated that I am not liable for income taxes - BUT I have no idea how I would prove that in an acceptable form to the Thai RD. Therefore I have taken steps to be able at anytime in the future to provide documentation that will substatiate my belief that I have no income tax liability. Hopefully that would be accepted by the Thai RD under point 2 below. 2. How things work with a taxation Dept (in any country) and the Thai RD is basically the same as all the others is thaty they will investigate any person or company if/when they are given (or find) a reason to investigate. They will go back many years and they will obtain and review many records, including bank records, to decide if there has possibly been a breach of the taxation rules (non lodgement or false lodgement). Then they will, if warranted, require that person or company to provide explanation - they may even just go ahead and calculate a taxation debt amonunt and provide them with that and request payment or a response. By not lodging a tax return, when in the opinion of the Thai RD you should have, is a very serious issue. So my point is - dont just think you have no tax obligation - try and prove it - and keep records just in case. The reality is that all remittanmces into Thailand are recorded and the Thai RD can obtain them for any company or person, if they want to. No they do not check them all every year - but if they believe something is 'wrong' they will check them for a person or company - and I think liker in Aust they can go back 7 years. Plus on top of that every now and then a tax dept will have a 'campaign' and in one year they will check the tax returns of a certain group of people.

I just re-read this statement above - and I am even more 'negative' than I was previously (and yes I have been very negative about this). Based on that statement, it is very clear that the Thai Revenue Department expects to make foreign firms, foreign residents (Expats)and foreign tourusts pay more income taxes than in the past. I sure hope that statement was 'lost in translation' because if it was not, then we now know why the Thai RD and the Thai Govt has not responded with assurances to us Expats, despite all the megative social media coverage of this issue - especially on this forum on the youtube vloggers. It very much looks like the Thai Govt has directed the Thai RD to impose income taxes on the 200K-300K Expats living long term in Thailand. Time to start seriously planning for where to move to, not just talking about it and looking around. As of 30 June 2024 any Expats still living/staying in Thailand since 1 Jan 2024 will become a tax resident and all money remitted into Thailand since January 1 2024 is potenitally taxable.

Sorry mate, but implying that those Expats from a DTA country will not be taxed and will not need to lodge a tax return and nothing will change - is very wrong. The DTA each country holds with Thailand, lists exemptions and exclusions, as well as methods agreed to avoid double taxation for persons/companies operating or living in the 2 countries. it does not mean that Thailand will automatically accept that an Expat froma DTA country does not need to lodge a tax return or does not have an obligation to pay income taxes. Businesses use DTAs every year in every country - in their tax returns - which are done and lodged by tax experts, lawyers, accountants. Unless the Thai RD gives Expats directions/statements that we are not required to lodge a tax return and do not have to claim exemptions and allowances and exclusions under a DTA (like a company does), then we will have to lodge a tax return. A DTA is not a 'get out of jail' card you can just wave at the Thai RD. A DTA is something that is used only when a tax return is lodged. And any claim made under a DTA can be accepted or rejected by the Thai RD - they require an 'acceptable' proof of that claim (to them). Having a DTA is not 'game over' - otherwise all those people avoiding taxes who are from countries with DTAs will still avoid income taxes. The OECD led change that made Thailand change this rule, is not 'exempt' for people from DTA countries. Yes, a DTA means certain things apply - like Pensions are not to be taxed by Thailand (in most cases) - but that is not automatic - it must be 'claimed'. Hopefully, Thailand will not require all Expats remitting money into Thailand to lodge a tax return and prove that they do not have to pay income taxes on that money. At the moment the Thai Govt itself and the Thai RD have not released any statements or advice to that effect.

Please remember though - the big issue on this matter, is will the Thai RD require US Expats to lodge a tax return and prove that the money they remitted into Thailand is from a Pension - or will they issue advice that confirms the DTA exempotion and state that such an Expat does not have to lodge a tax return and 'prove' that.

I hear what you are saying Sheryl - I assume that means that the Thai RD has confirmed to the BOI that their LTR Visa holders are still exempt from income taxes under this rule change. If that is true, that means that Thailand has allowed some Visa holders (LTR) to pay them a certain amount of money, and that excludes them from being subjected to income taxes. IMO that means Thailand is in breach of the OECD rules and regulations that have been established to stop people (and companies) avoid income taxes in the country they are living/operating in. It also means to me, that if Thailand does impose income tax obligations on all non-LTR Visa Expats, that they are saying to us all - You 'not rich' Falang - You pay tax'. WTF?

Thailand aint gonna withdraw from a DTA - BUT the issue is if the Thai RD will accept the claim made by an Expat that their money remitted into Thailand is not taxable under a DTA. It is not a 'get out of jail free' card you can wave - it is an agreement to reduce/prevent double taxation. Tehcnically every individual (company or person) has to CLAIM under a DTA that they are exempt or have allowances or credits. BUT it is still up to the Thai RD whether they agree or not. And - here is the single largest and real issue all Expats will have with this - 'good luck' if they dont agree with your DTA claim. However there is a 'solution' the Thai RD provides clarification statements that specifically advise that Expats with money they remit into Thailand from souces A-Z and is of types 1-50 are not taxable income when remitted into Thailand. That would mean (hopefully) that if an Expat's money of from A-Z and/or is in the form of 1-50 then they do not have to lodge an income tax return.

The latest advice I have from a tax consultant is that it is very unlikley that the Thai RD will require retired/married Expats to pay income taxes. Most money they have is either exempt (Pensions etc.) or is not taxable as it was earned before 1 Jan 2024. However, those actually 'earning' money from things like rental properties and selling shares/investments, might be caught up in the net. However, the unknown issue still reamins whether the Thai RD will require Expats to lodge a tax return and 'prove' their money remitted into Thailand is either exempt or not taxable - and exactly what documents/evidence will the Thai RD require to accept that claim. That is still for me the biggest issue - because what happens if the Thai RD rejects my exemption/not applicable claim, is that I will have to pay their calculated income tax - or dispute their decision in a Thai Tribunal using only Thai documents and communication (and a Thai lawyer).

Simps - that I believe is the modern term for a Beta male. We used to say some blokes are 'pussy whipped' but these days the Simps are far worse. To all newbies and wanna be newbies - Dudley is right. I have seen over the years so many 'simps' get taken for a ride, because they are thinking like they are back in the west where they have been hammered for decades to think that the girl is the prize. The exact opposite exists here in Thailand - and there are lots of good Thai girls who are looking for a good Expat - but you wont find them in bars etc.

And just how are they all going to get in and ouut of that traffic disaster? Helicopters?? How about getting all the roadworks finished you idi***s - otherwise you might get them to come once, but they wont come back if they are stuck in traffic for hours looking out the windows. It has been 3 years sicne Covid shut it all down and there has been lots of announcements about projects getting things ready - but it is now worse than ever. Unbelievable - just unbelievable.