TroubleandGrumpy

Yes this is a very big point - and this is definiterly a matter where we disagree. IMO there is no ruling or determination from the Thai RD that specifies that anyone who brings savings into Thailand must lodge a tax return and prove that money is not income but is savings. Therefore, IMO and under the previous precedent whereby retired/married Expats on long term non-working Visas and/or without a working permit, were not required to lodge tax returns on any money they brought into Thailand. Yes it is a requirement for Expats that receive income from employment in Thailand, but there is no ruling or statement from Thai RD that any Expats who bring their savings into Thailand are required to lodge a tax return. But this rule change is not specifically about non-working Expats on those Visas bringing in their savings - it was about people bringing income and/or earnings into Thailand tax free, because that income/earnings was made in the previous tax year. Therefore, in the absence of any specific and clear ruling or statement to the contrary, in my opinion, both based on precedent and specific rules/determinations, non-working retired or married Expats in Thailand on a long term Visa do not have to lodge a tax return, unless the money they bring into Thailand is specifically income or earnings (madse after 1 Jan 2024) as per the Thailand tax laws. Those of us that are in receipt of Government Pensions are in a bit of a limbo about whether that money is assesable income (except for USA) because their country's DTA with Thailand looks a little vague on who can tax a Government Pension. As for those who are Australians, I am still waiting responses to my questions to tax consultants and the ATO.

Mike - I just found this additional thread about income taxes - is this where all discussions should be held - will the 'new tax era' thread be closed and readers referred to this one. I have a couple of questions and some issues to maybe add to the unknowns list. This imay have been already resolved and I missed it - but just in case. That document you attached which states that anyone with income above 120K must lodge a tax return, is specifically "For taxpayers who received income from employment only". Is there a document from the Thai RD that specifially covers those who receive income/money from overseas only, and have zero income/money from employment here or overseas. The current tax rates that I read in the guide document here are different from the latest rates listed by Mazaars. I know the Thai RD website states the ones in the guide, but under that it states 'applicabkle from 2013/2014'. I will not comment right now on my opinion of the Thai RD. Personal Income Tax - Mazars - Thailand Given that an Expat brings in money to Thailand from his personal savings accumulated before 1 Jan 2024, can you advise on what basis are they required to lodge a tax return (besides that document attached), and have you got any idea how they are going to prove to the Thai RD that the money is not taxable. If I think of anymore I will send them here.

That may and may not be true - it is not clear and certain, except for USA Pensions, the rest of us are in limbo waiting for definitive answers.

Pensions are included in every DTA - and every DTA is different. Some like USA specificaly state that all Pensions paid in USA are only taxable in USA. But others are a bit more undefined because the wording is not so clear.

If they are assesable and taxable yes - it is when they land in a Thai bank account that they may be included, depenbding on your personal circumstances.

I am chasing up this issue for the Forum - I have contacted several tax companies in Thailand and the ATO. There is one tax company that stated on their website that the Australian OAP is assesable taxable income in Thailand. I have requested their details and whether that is their opinion, or have they dealt with the Thai RD regarding this matter for an Australian and they therefore have a case example. I also asked if they have communicated with the ATO regarding this matter too. No one has replied to me yet. I will also add that back in October I sent an email to the Thai RD and asked about how/where I could get more information on how this change might affect my personal financial situation as a married Expat in Thailand - no reply was received.

That is not correct - the full pension is $28, 516 which is well over the tax free threshold. But your other point is correct - the Age Pension is taxable income in Austraia - but the 'rule' is that ATO does not tax the Age Pension. The reason it is taxable income, is so that anyone earning additional money above the Pension is taxed at the marginal rate applicable on their income, at the rate applicable when the pension is added together with their income. When you get the Age Pension there is no tax free threshold of $18,200 applicable for any income above the pension. Plus the Pension payment is reduced if you earn over $204 a fortnight ($5,304 per year).

OK by me - so tell me exactly what is the bet?

I hear you and agree with some of that - but most of it is your 'belief'. When in business I learned the hard way that 'belief' has nothing to do with Contract Laws or Taxation Rules. What is fact matters - and what is precedent also matters. While you believe those things Mike - I have many doubts about things - but I am not saying you are wrong - I am saying they are not facts. Yes Expats in Thailand are going to be caught in this new net, and the Thai RD is clearly aware of it and that is why this media story was published about a 'new tax era'. However, exactly what are our obligations under this new rule change (and all the others caught up in it), has not been clarified by the Thai RD. In fact they have formed a committee and are discussing how this change will be implemented - hopefully they will provide details sooner than later. Regarding whether Thailand should impose income taxes on Expats living here as retired or married in a matter of belief - and we are definitely in disagreement. I do not believe that they should be doing that at all (many reasons), and you believe that they should be able to do so (also many reasons). That particular discussion is a matter of beliefs and is not a matter of facts. Hopefully, the Thai Govt will recognise that if the Thai RD implements this new tax era the 'wrong way' and retired or married Expats are caused a lot of financial and/or legal problems (forced to pay taxes unfairlt, forced to lodge complicated tax returns, forced to pay for tax accountants and/or translators, hit with income taxes not expected, etc etc) then that will result in many Expats leaving (me too), and new Expats not coming to live here anymore. The fact that the Thai Govt has not responded positively to this all this very negative social media activities for over 3 months, makes me believe that they do want us all to pay as much income taxes as the Thai RD can get out of us. But how the Thai RD will implement this new tax era, and under what processes will it be applied, and detailed explanations of individual circumstances, etc etc - those facts have still not arrived from the Thai RD and the Thai Govt has given no assurances.

Actually, in most western countries you can be a resident in a country/state if you live there long term. But to be a formal 'resident' in Thailand is extremely difficult - huge application process, expensive and takes years. Technically all Expats in Thaiand that are on long-term non-immigrant Visas are actually here as a Tourist visa - they are all variations of the same basic Tourist Visa. Except for the LTR Visa recently implemented. PS - if I do ever win, the Thai wife will be able to receive it, but not me.

Ditto - regarding bringing extra money into Thailand in 2023 - and now I am also waiting and watching to see how things go before deciding what to do. Actually, I am glad they are only taxing remitted money. That allows me to control what form of money I do bring into Thailand. If I ever did make/receive any additional income going forward it will be impossible for the Thai RD to know as it would be 'quietly' added to my other retirement savings account (Super). I will put some money from my Super (and all the Govt Pension), that I wish to bring over each year, into one Aust bank account and then to Wise and then to my Thai bank account. That does not mean that the Thai RD will not try to impose income taxes on all those remittances by forcing me to lodge a tax return to prove the money is not taxable in Thailand - and then make me wait and hope to see if they agree. And that is the big issue (for me) going forward - how would I (if I have to) prove that to the Thai RD - what documentation will be acceptable to them - will I need to engage/pay a Thai tax accountant every year - what happens if they dont accept my claimed exemptions and/or allowances - where can I do next if that happens, other than to leave? There are several posters who have said that the Thai Govt gets a lot more money from what Expats bring into Thailand, then they would get if they impose an income tax on some of that money - so why would they risk lossing part/all of it? But logic and reason is not something that is in a large amount here as we all know. IMO the Thai RD is under huge pressure to drag in more money as the economy continues to slowly decline, and they will only care about getting maybe 5-10% of the estimated 300 Billion Baht that is remitted into Thailand by the estimated 300,000 retired and married Expats currently living here. Worrying about potentially losing a large number of those Expats is not something IMO that the Thai RD gives a rat's rear about - but like everyone else I just have to wait and see what happens - it is a worry, but it might be OK

Welcome to the new Boss, same as the old Boss.

Thailand politics and bureaucrasy is full of 'skow ponies' that look good, but when confronted with real work, run away. The reason is simple - no accountability.

No idea here in Thailand. But back in Aust I found this 'industry' to be massively over-priced for basically shoe inserts. Certainly those with 'deformed' feet/legs need special shoes. But for the majority of us all that is needed is shoe inserts - which you can buy yourself and experiment with by wearing them and seeing how it goes. There are many high quality shoes that you can buy, and likewise there are cheap/nasty and good/quality inserts. I would say for inserts on-line is your best bet after researching the brands/models that work best for other people.

What could possibly go wrong? I wonder why I am always saying this to myself in Thailand. Thailand - the hub of 'annoucements'.

I looked everywhere on the net and just cannot find a unit or even an image. It was basically an adjustable orbiting system - there was sprigs that you could push up/down to make each direction as it spun around go short or long distance. People in the village used to come and looks at it - it was great. But maybe they are prone to problems so they dropped them - I was always adjusting it every few weeks. I think this system below does the same thing - but looks more robust - thanks to @GammaGlobulin Amazon.com : Orbit 56805 Precision Arc Gear Drive Sprinkler with Adjustable Knobs, Gray : Patio, Lawn & Garden

I looked everywhere on the net and just cannot find a unit or even an image. It was basically an adjustable orbiting system - there was sprigs that you could push up/down to make each direction as it spun around go short or long distance. People in the village used to come and looks at it - it was great. But maybe they are prone to problems so they dropped them - I was always adjusting it every few weeks. I think this system below does the same thing - but looks more robust - thanks to @GammaGlobulin Amazon.com : Orbit 56805 Precision Arc Gear Drive Sprinkler with Adjustable Knobs, Gray : Patio, Lawn & Garden

In Chiang Mai I used an adjustable circular sprinkler - cant find one on net. Not one that does big/small circle, one that does long to north short to south and medium to east/west. Totally adjustable to cover the entire lawn and garden beds no matter what shape it was. Maybe dont make them anymore.

He should send out details about the NASA fires guard website where they can see fires via satellite, and tell them if they burn without permission they can easily see it from their staellites and then their farm will be closed for 12 months, and also say that breaking that law will incure a minimum 1 month in jail. When they do that 1 or 2 times the word will get around very quickly and all of them will stop.

Committed a crime causing millions of baht damage and is not in jail ???

In order to be able to 'prove' that in the future if Thai RD ask for details, may I suggest you download and print out those accounts - and put together in writing a financial statement. And then once a year do the same summary of all transfers you do make into Thailand - source accounts and details. It may never happen, but if it does, it is always best to be prepared. Like wearing a helmet while riding a bike - you never know if or when it will be needed, so it is best to always wear it.

True - and much of that is not for food nowadays. But as long as the animal is checked, prepared and cooked properly, they are usualy OK - although sometimes they are not.

Depending on how you look at it - you are right and things are changing and not all those changes are for the people's benefits. But that is the way it has always been - ever since they stopped paying people with cash and mandated that it had to go into a bank account. There are Pros and Cons about all it and that includes this current move worldwide towards 'digital wallets'. Yes it is all about taxes - just like red light and speed cameras - whatever makes it easie for Govts to make more money will be pushed on to us - with that reason hidden behind 'benefits to the people'. Same reason ATMs started - and yet they now charge fees to use them. There is no 'solution' and very little that can be done - because it is not a 'conspiracy' that can be 'exposed' - it is a convergence of vested interests - there always has been and always will be people who take advantage of things changing - some good and some not good. But it is possible to plan ahead and think about things. Like having 2-3 bank accounts and 2-3 email addresses ec. - and regularly (every 2-3 years) get rid of 1 or 2 and later get another 1 or 2. You cant stop it, but you can make yourself less 'visible'.

Mike Lister Replied: I will be delighted to do so, all anyone had to do was ask. Goodbye. Sorry everyone but you're on your own from hereon, straws and camels and all that. Sorry to hear that Mike - but I do understand. This is an example of why most Expats avoid other Expats - far too many of them are just pharked up people with totally ridiculous expectations and demands. Mike and I have 'debated' several points - but he is just trying to help by putting together a complete 'summary' of where things are at as far as he knows it. By all means agree or disagree (politely) - but only an absolute idiot would abuse someone who is just trying to help others. Ignore him if you want - that is what the block member option is for - what an ahole @EVENKEEL is - BLOCKED.