TroubleandGrumpy

Thanks - my bad on posting the wrong one - the current one is now saved.

There are many clarifications and information updates that TRD are supposed to provide - the issue of what constitutes assesable income under this new loophole closure is just one of them. The only rule that has changed is that the loophole whereby income such as capital gains and rent would be seasoned for 12 months and then remitted tax free. Expats have been for decades remitting their pensions and savings into Thailand - nothing has changed with regards to that money. If/when TRD specifies that under the new rule all long-term Expats who become tax residents and remit into Thailand more than 60/120K which is now defined as assessable income (which means taxable income) are required to get a TIN and lodge a tax return, then I and many others will agree. At which time I would say those deciding whether to leave Thailand or not (and can), will make the decision to leave Thailand. Until then it is all about what constitutes income and what TRD intends to apply taxation to - especially Govt pensions. The rues are not always the issue in Thailand - it is what they decide to enforce and how they interpret them. There is a rule in the TRD Tax Code that states all foreigners leaving Thailand must first get a tax clearance certificate - what matters is that it is no longer enforced. It would be wrong to tell any Expat leaving to Thailand they must get a tax clearance because it is the Law.

I dont have a link - I searched using Google and that was what I got.

This list from a non-official guide (meaning not TRD approved so dont take as gospel) is very detailed and would also be useful for you - especially this list from the first page: SUMMARY OF KEY POINTS a) The tax year is the calendar year, tax returns must be filed the following year, before 31 March. b) Only income remitted to Thailand is potentially taxable in Thailand, income that remains overseas is not taxable for foreigners. c) You must spend more than 180 days per calendar year in Thailand before you are considered tax resident. d) There is no double taxation but some income may be taxed at a different rate. e) Dual Tax Agreements exist between Thailand and over 60 countries, each is different, you must read and understand yours. f) Tax returns are filed using the honour system. You must declare your income, without any supporting paperwork and this will either be accepted or not, just as in the US and UK. g) Income that is taxed overseas will not be re-taxed here. Tax paid on income overseas can be used to offset any Thai tax assessment on the same income. h) Assessable income in Thailand may take many forms, bank transfers, cash, cheques, overseas debit card and ATM transactions etc. i) Generous Tax Exemptions, Deductions and Allowances (TEDA) exist, along with a zero rated tax band, to create a significant tax free buffer for many tax payers. j) How you use your imported funds in Thailand is of no interest to the RD and does not change the taxation of those funds. k) For the most part, the various tax treaties do not limit the extent to which pension, dividend, rental and interest income can be taxed by Thailand.

This is the thread -

Dont get sick or have an accident, the medical charges for foreigners are way more higher than for tuk tuks. And dont come without medical insurance.

Helps that if you are are taking them now, to take the packet with you to the Pharmacy. Note that if there is a white blind drawn down and blocking the medications behind the counter, that means there is not an authorised pharamacist in the store at that time (out for lunch etc).

Party and Night Life in Thailand = Pattaya. Party and Night Life and staying in a beach resort and visiting beaches and islands in Thailand = Phuket.

No you do not need a Tax ID - unless you need to lodge a tax return and pay income taxes. There is a thread all about this issue - but basically if the money you remit into Thailand is not income, as defined by the TRD, then you dont need to lodge a tax return or pay income taxes. There are a LOT of details and issues that the TRD has still not clarified, and my advice is to research and learn, and wait until you decide that you do need to lodge a tax return and pay income taxes.

You need to give more info. Are you a Thai Citizen - I assume Yes. What country is she a citizen of? How long has she been working in Thailand? How long have you lived together? When are you going to get married? With that info, I think the Visa Expert (Jack) can point you in the right direction/s.

There is far more to this story than is being provided - but best not to speak ill of the dead. Suffice to say that she has been a serial protestor for many years (not just this current issue). Take a look at who she left eveything to in her Will - that says something that IMO should not be said right now.

I am not a Pattaya/Jomtien type person, but I would take that if the only other option was to live in the boondocks like this guy - with no services and other modern things nearby. I have seen a few of his vids over the years, and being young he has been able to make a real go of things, and he has built up the farm really well. However, I am not sure that when he is 60-70 that he will still be OK living on a remote farm - but he certainly seems happy doing what he is doing.

Thailand has been losing out on a lot of potential business development over the last 10-15 years under the Junta and the prvious Govts. Probably the best example being that Tesla chose Malaysia ahead of Indonesia for its SEAsia Regional HQ and Manufacturing, and Thailand was not even in the picture. 20 years ago that would not have been the case. Thailand manufacturing and business devlopment from overseas has been going down for a while, and this Visa is IMO a reaction to the fact that not much 'development projects' are being committed to in the EEC - no where near as many as they said would happen when it was first announced.

Perhaps they need to talk to Elon about what 'real value' is based upon, when it comes to the satellite business. Maybe he would make an offer - just to keep them off the market for 5-10 years (unless he needs them). But would there be enough tea money to go around - probably not.

No. But I have lived in 2 Land and Houses gated communities (1 rent, 1 buy) - they are very good on all counts.

Does not a Usufruct Agreement allow you to occupy the house for a period of time and on a commercial basis (free), if your Partner who owns the house was to pass away? I believe that the house would pass over to whoever in the family the Wife has left it to, but your 'right of occupation' under the Usuafruct Agreement (and as stated in her Will), does not cease when she dies?

That is a good point - taxation is very country specific and each DTA ia also different, therefore it is very hard to discuss anything in too much detail with any certainty.

Well said stat - I think that perhaps that is how this open and broad discussions about the issue should progress. Those wishing to deep dive and discuss hypotheticals are gioven free rein, and Mike can sit and watch and take what he sees as any 'certainties' and adds them to the guide, and add any unresolved issues (like Gift taxing and CGT taxing) to the list of unknowns if there is no resolution or agreement reached.

I have no intention of scaremongering - I am sure most people realise that. I am pointing out that the TRD and every Office of the TRD is unlikely to have a complete knowledge and undersdtanding of DTAs and how they apply to Expat's govt pension payments - which a lot of Expats here in Thailand either totally or partially rely apon to live here. I am therefore stating that IMO the TRD will not be as easy and smooth to deal with for any country's DTA Statement removed by Moderator, untrue. I am not scaremongering - I am disagreeing with your claims that TRD will be easy to deal with Statement removed by Moderator, untrue. Sorry Mike but my histpory of living in Thailand on/off since 2010, is that there is no guarantees when it comes to dealing with the Thai bureacracy - the ony certainty is uncertainty - and IMO that will not change in my lifetime.

True - but that depends on whether TRD decides to tax home country Govt age Pension payments remitted into Thailand - or if they give them a blanket exception. We have had the debate before as to whether it applies in all cases or not under DTAs, so lets not go there again. Suffice to say that Expats will try their country's DTA if possibly gives them any chance of not paying income taxes on their Govt Pension payments remitted into Thailand.

If the topic was fixing the gearbox from a 1957 Chevy I would know most of the terms being used, but I would not have a clue either. Quite frankly most of the current discussions here are 'hypothetical' - and most of the the rest is debate about the interpretation of certain parts and sections of the Tax Code, and how they may and may not be applied to Expats. Moderator removed baiting flame that is untrue. Until the TRD provides their much promised 'clarifications', and be assured there are a lot more issues for the Thais than for us Expats that they are looking at right now, then and only then can any certainty be applied to the matter. IMO TRD has not provided those 'clarfications' because when they started looking at all the feedback and criticism, they realised they had no idea what was really involved, nor how complicated it will be, and only now do they realise why for over 30 years the TRD never applied the new interpretation before (the original decision makers in the decision to not apply it have all probably retired by now). IMO the TRD are now also very aware of the high likihood that once they provide those clarifications, they will be taken to the Tribunal and Courts for doing it, so they are being very 'careful'. IMO the TRD are extremely aware that the PM wants them to get this additional taxation revenue ASAP, and the new Boss of TRD is desperate not to have it all blow up in her face. This is especially so if it was her that told the PM's Office that they could increase taxation revenues by XYZ Billion Baht by making this change in the rule interpretation. I was involved in Canberra (The Washington of Australia) for over 20 years, and I have never seen a Government policy change implementation with so many 'hairs' on it before.

Thanks - that is very useful information for some and it goes to the fact that all DTAs are different. In the AUS DTA it is section 13 and there are a lot of differences to the one you quoted. I wont bore you/anyone with the details, but there are a lot. australia : article 11-15 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) Which brings me to the earlier raised point that TRD is not at all 'comfortable' with the use of DTAs for exemptions and exceptions. There are too many for them to learn and understand - and that aint gonna happen in every Provincial TRD Office for a long timwe (if it ever does). IMO until they centralise taxation returns into Bangkok, especially those involving DTAs, it will be a potential diaster in the boondocks trying to convince a local TRD tax official that he cannot tax something that he thinks he can. Quite frankly I think until they TRD as a whole works through a lot of the issues during the first few years, IMO it would be best for any Expat to avoid the TRD if they have any tax issue that involves a DTA - unless they want to and can afford to use a registered Tax Agenti. Quoting the rules at any Thai Official is never a good thing, and when it comes to the TRD I cannot see them being any more accepting of an Expat 'correcting' or 'questioning' them, than Immigration is currently.

Yes indeed there will be some CGT managed by TRD before, but IMO the vast majority of CGT will have been 'seasoned' for 12 months and then brought into Thailand tax free. Only someone with a close first hand knowledge woud know how much - but I estimate it will be a lot more under the new rule intepretation.

No challenge - but pointing out that the current TRD method for treating CGT is based on the current in country system, and is probably one of the many things they are reviewing when the CGT is overseas generated. That would include what they will do when the CGT is taxed already overseas. I know the standard tax credits apply under DTAs, but they may take the approach that if the CGT has already been taxed overseas then the TRD will not apply Thai taxes (that would be a lot simpler for them to do). If I recall correctly it is Malaysia (or Philipinnes?) that under their implementation of this new rule has excluded any remitted income that has already been taxed in the source country.

That is a lot to respond to but I will give you two answers, while still saying you could be right and I could be wrong. 1. There is nothing in any document or website or anywhere I am aware of that says the Govt is going to tax pensioners living overseas. That is all your opinion that it will happen. 2. 20+ years working in Canberra means I understand how it works (a lot). I have given presos and proposals to House and Senate Committees and other bodies, who were going through the 'development' stages of changing or adding a new Law/Rule.