TroubleandGrumpy

I know of a few people in the same position as yourself - paying taxes on their Aust Govt pension payments. That is taxed now only because the contributions made into that Govt super fund were given additional taxation benefits and done at a much higher rate. Other Super funds did not have those same taxation benefits, and that is why payments from them are not considered by the ATO as taxable income. I would get the latest information regarding paying income taxes in Thailand, inluding all the deductions and allowances applicable to yourself, and calulate exactly how much tax you would pay in Thailand versus in Australia. I have heard there are a few Scandinavians in Thailand who are getting their 'retirement' payments sent direct to their banks in Thailand, because Thailand taxes them a lot less than their home country does. But it means going through the process of dealing with the home country tax office (ATO for you) to set things up in that way - once done the ATO will stop taxing your Pension payments - but I dont think it will be easy.

We clearly have different opinions about whether it is taxable in Thailand. Hopewfully our discussions on the matter will give members what they need to make their own decision/s. Looking forward to your post with link/proof it is taxable. PS - anything from a tax accountant stating it is taxable is not worth the paper it is printed on - they are after your business and will and do say anything - there are SFA consumer laws here, and the TRD does not manage taxation 'experts' like the ATO and Consumer Affairs and Financial Advisers Ombudsman does in Australia. I agree 100% with your second paragraph, but I will point out that unlike the TAT and Thai Immigration, TRD do not care one bit about Expats leaving Thailand - that is not their issue and they will not take that issue into account (unless told to back down).

You sound like someone else mate - argumentative and never wrong (enlighten me/us). Please read my latest post vefore this and then please read the TRD Guidlines for 2022 and the Australian Thai DTA - all of them. Then and only then will you see what I have seen which make it IMO not taxable. PS - also look up the Thai definition of the word Pension. You are one of the many that have stated that the pension is taxable - please provide where it states clearly that the Pension is subject to income taxes in Thailand. Please post everything you have - so I can refute/correct it all in one go. Year 2022 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) australia : article 1-5 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

IMO the Australian Pension is NOT subject to income taxes in Thailand. There are several reasons for that opinion. Taxation is an extremely complicated and 'difficult' area - in Aust we are extremely lucky to have the ATO - they are IMO the best in the world (I worked in IT in Canberra for 20+ years). Often this tax rule states this, and that rule states that, and both are in conflict, and another one says another thing altogether. Over many years those rules and situations are rigorously 'fine tuned' and publicised and the tax experts and public are 'educated'. ATO has over the last 3-4 decades done a great job in doing that - the TRD are a total clusterphaarrk of disjointed and conflicting arbitrary rules and interpretations. Most TRD clarifications come from Court cases - they are not rigorously removing conflicts, confusions. ommissions and errors. The issue with your question starts with being a tax resident in Thailand and/or a tax resident in Australia. I am both at the moment, and if you pay taxes in Australia (which you have already on any earnings/super etc) you probably are one too. That is a huge issue and grwatly affects income taxation in any other country. The secondary issue of whether a Govt Pension is taxable in Thailand is confusing, but IMO TRD does not consider a Government Pension (in their Taxation Rules) as taxable - but it is very much (like everything to do with TRD) open to interpretation. A 'Pension' in the TRD guidelines is any regular payment made to a person - some Companies pay a person a 'Pension' over many years in return for their service - that is taxable. The next level is whether under the DTA the Aust Govt Pension is taxable. There are many clauses and interpretations possible - mine is that it is not taxanble in Thailand. If this matter ever goes to a Thai Court for a decision - then and only then will it be clear. But even that will be subjected to 'correction' - I just cannot see the Aust Taxpayer (and therefore Govt) being happy to pay their taxes straight to the Thai Government for every person on a Penbsion and residing in Thailand for 180+ days each year. There are more complications than those above that I have only just touched on - this could go on for hours. IMO the ASust Govt Pension is not taxable. Having said that, I know one of the 'confusing' facts that has IMO caused the misinterpretation that the Pension is taxable. In Australia, the Pension (like most CLink payments) is considered 'taxable income' - but as you know it is not taxed - it is subjected to and then exempted from tax by the ATO. When a person recieves the Pension they are 'deemed' to have a taxable income that is above the tax free threshold, then if they earn money from another source, then that income is 100% subject to payment of income taxes, because it is above the tax free threshold. I think some people have confused the Pension being taxable income with being taxable in Thailand. IMO the Aust Govt under the DTA does not want its taxpayer's money being paid to the Thailand Government, and the DTA does not clearly state that the Govt Pension is taxable in Thailand. Now what TRD might think about that is unknown (they dont make the DTAs) and IMO is best left alone like a sleeping dog. IMO all Expats should avoid lodging a tax return in Thailand unless they are clearly earning income overseas (real income, not Pension) and are bringing that income into Thailand untaxed. If, like me, you dont think you have to pay income taxes in Thailand, then keep records of all payments in Australia, all transfers to Thailand, and all deposits in Thailand, and write down the reasons why you think you are not liable for income taxes (keep a file each year). Then if I am wrong (could be - doubt it - but could be) and the TRD comes knocking asking why you have not lodged a tax return, then and only then, go see a tax expert/consultant and get formal advice. If you see one now, IMO they will say "yes yes pay us money and we do a tax return for you' now and every year going forward. If you want to play it completely safe, then go see one towards the end of this year - when things will hopefully be clearer. In Thailand it can take many years to resolve the simplest of issues (criminal cases, maryjane laws, covid mandates, etc etc) - IMO this new 'tax regime' will take 2-3 years to sort itself out - best to stay quiet until then. All Thailand has to do is release a statement (like Malysia and Philippines have done and others?) making it clear that they have no intention of taxing Retired Expats who bring their own money into Thailand under their implementation of the required OECD CRS driven tax laws, designed to reduce money laundering and tax fraud. That Thailand has not yet done that despite the clearly concerned Expats (and poptential Expats) could mean they do want our money, but more likely it is because they are dont know what to do and how to do it (and refuse to look, listen and learn from their neighbours).

My only comment is that if you still believe that Hitlers Government in Germany was far-right, you have not taken a close and rational and logical look at what is happening all around the world, and you are (still?) believing the ledft wing media. Left wing Governments are the ones that imposed the most draconian and harshest rules during Covid and they were all in favour of the removal of people's rights. Left wing Governments all over the world are becomming more and more draconian in their imposition of Laws to force the People to 'comply' with their centralised ideologies. China is not far-right. Nth Korea is not far-right. Russia is not far right. Muslim countries are not far right. What is happening in Scotland is the reality of a left-wing Government - they just get worse and worse over time. Hitler's Party was named the National Socialist German Workers Party - they were yuet another variation of the far-left. There is only one thing that is the clear and absolute differentiater of left-wing from right-wing Goverments - and that is People's rights and freedoms. Whether those 'rights' come from a God or from a Constitution or from Both - the right wing political parties are very much in favour of giving People rights and freedoms. Left wing political parties are in favour of centralised committees making the rules, and that always results in the removal of People's rights and freedoms, when they conflict with their own ideologies. The political world is turning back to the right because more and more People are realising what is what and who is who. Maybe the reality of what is happening in Scotland will make more People realise the truth.

I just found this thread - please Mods could you please pin this thread to the start page - like most I only looked at the first page for whats new. @4MyEgo My understanding is that your statement above is incorrect for the majority of Aussie Pensioners living in Thailand. The Aust Age Pension IMO is not taxable in Thailand - the story is not ended. I know one website stated that it is taxable - but that is an opinion given by a staffer in that company who wrote the piece and it is not based on facts. The matter has not been tested in a Court or Tribunal. I have been seeking feedback and opinion from ATO, but I have received no reply. Unfortunately we are about to leave for golf and I have not had a chance to read all the posts - perhaps someone else has already pushed back on this issue. I will do that when we get back later today (after a snooze). Suffice to say now that if you read the DTA in full, there are many reasons/exemptions why most Aussies are not liable to pay income tax to Thailand on their Aust Pension payments.

For those Aussies interested in open discussions about Taxation issues - below is the thread to post in.

It comes from the TRD website - 030265guide91.pdf (rd.go.th) There is also one for the 2022 year on the TRD website - it says PDF buy it is actually a Word doc. - https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2022/GUIDE_90_65_Complete.docx TRD have also created a 2023 list of linked documents. - Year 2023 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

Good point - I missed that - my bad. OP - take the offer and get a divorce - she may in fact recognise that as the only way for you to 'escape' from the financial demands from her Mother. Either that or migrate with her to another country (she may want to escape as well). Girls in Thailand are extremely under the control of their Mothers - they are totally and utterly under their control - way way more than girls in the west - it is just the way it is here - if the Mother is bad she will force her daughters to do things they might not otherwise do.

Yes indeed - Thais are very 'complaint' in general - they are very much more about 'social harmony' than its neighbours are.

get a life mate - insulting and arguing with other expats is not healthy (and makes you look like an idiot troll)

Clearly goat is a troll - deliberately provoking other members with negative insulting comments.

Indeed - thinking critically means being critical and that is not allowed in Thailand and most SEAsian countries

You need to read my post again - the only ones I called idiots are the Thai govt authority person making this statement. Over sensitive?

Ok then - in the abscence of another option, we Aussies will continue to discuss the Thailand Expat income tax issues right here. Half page posts and rants about Australia - all good.

7 pages in a few hours - wow - touchy touchy over-sensitives (and stirrers having a laugh) me thinks. Thailand is rife with idiots in authority making idiotic over-reaching statements to get into the media - just look at the PM. Dont take them seriously is my advice and have a good laugh at them - that is what the Thais do (they just do it very quietly). Thailand is the Global Hub of idiotic Government ideas that are published in the media (because criticising what is said by a Government authority person will get the Editor sued for defamation).

Cheers Mike - much appreciated 😁

As discussed Mike - this is for the OAP - it is not about Income Taxes on Remittances in Thailand.

Thailand does not tax inheritences valued under 100 Million Baht (about 2.2 million pounds) 😁

Mike you are no longer a Mod - but could you take this up with the Mods. There is no thread on the Australian forum that covers this new income taxes on remitted money for Aussies. The OAP thread is only about the Pension - not about this new tax regime. If you/they (Mods) could start a new thread and make it linked/sticky on the front page - and then move into that thread our posts made here that would be great.

That is too much to break down mate - beyond the replies I already gave - sorry mate. If you were to buy me lunch/drink one day we could talk for a few hours - I did what youy are thinking about doing - but I have a lot of questions - like are you in Thailand now -= are you married - what sort of Visa bla bla bla. Those and many more will make a difference about what to do. The problem you have is that there are not many 'financial advisers' that will look at your situation and give a genuine independent advice on what to do. Because they have 'preferred investments' and they dont know Pension issues and they dont know Thai tax rules and they dont know a lot about Expat issues and a lot more. I took almost a year planning and research to do what I did - and even then I made a few mistakes - but I got the 'big stuff' right. I have seen several advices claiming that the Aust Pension is both taxable and non-taxable in Thailand. My read of the DTA is that it could be intereted either way - but the clauses and sections I have read lead me to decide it is not taxable for me. That is based on many things - including that I am still a tax resident in Australia and Australia is still my main 'place' (finances, family, friends, super, pay taxes, citizen, legal status, etc etc etc). The DTAs were written for companies - not individuals - and a company in Thailand can pay taxes in Aust on money earned in Aust (just like I do). This is the facts and only facts - everything else is specuilation and opinion. If you make/earn money in Thailand, you pay taxes in Thailand. If you take Thai money overseas and invest it, you can no longer bring back that money and earnings made from that money tax free if 'seasoned' for over 12 months.

I have been trying to get that since October last year - there is no such thing. At best I got a letter from my Super Fund stating that my earnings are taxed at 15% - but they cannot state exactly how much tax was paid because it is all lumped together. ATO have given me nothing except the official words/statement about how Super Funds are taxed. Imaghine if 20 million people decided they wanted to know that information - it would cost a fortune for everyone to put things in place - aint goinna happen - Super is about saving money for retirement. Plus even if I/you could get something - which they will not do it for January to December - the tax year in Aust is July to June. That fact alone screws up a lot of any chance to comply with any TRD demand to prove tax paid under a DTA from Jan to Dec last year and do it before 31 March. As I said - IMO Expats should stay away from TRD for the first few years - plead ignorance if questioned. I am hopeful that at some point the Thai Govt will do what bopth the Philippines and Malaysian Govts have done and state that they have no intention of taxing retired Expats who are bringing money into the country - it is not as if they have taken money out and are then bringing it back in tax free - it is all 'new' money. If you (anyone) are earning heaps of income overseas and you (anyone) would owe heaps of income taxes in 3-5 years, I suggest you/they have a Plan B that includes an emergency departure - in case the Thai Govt does not state they will not tax retired Expats and you get a letter from TRD in 3-5 years.

I am not talking about contributions to Super - that is not income which can be taxed in Thailand. The earnings you make (annual growth) in your Super Fnd in 'contributions phase' is taxed at 15% by the Super Fund and paid direct to ATO on a fundwide basis. When you (anyone) get to 60+ you can change the Fund to 'retirement phase' which means the earnings made by your money is not taxed at 15%. But the downside to that is that the money you receive in that hpase is counted by CLink as Income - Gotcha - so be careful doing that. Obviously that applies to those reciving Super and the Pension (like me). And once you are 75 the money in Super is automatically 'converted' to retirement phase (yet another rip-off change made).

Mate - I am sure that advice below is OK in some circumstances. But it sounds to me like that is not the case here. If it is that bad, she will respond to you telling her by delaying, crying, begging, etc etc - and then if you stay then she and the family will get whatever they can get. If it is that bad and the decision is made by you to get a divorce - then you should go see a lawyer and start the proceedings. He will probably tell you to move out ASAP and take everything you want to keep with you - and not tell anyone where you have gone - no one. Doing that takes planning and smarts - get advice. If you want a lawyer who is an Expat send me a PM.

I will only go Win12 if there is an advantage over Win10 for me - and only for the 'safe' laptop. I hear you about malware - but I would start from Bios and blow away the laptop and reinstall from backed up files on ext HDD. I knew a guy that had a separate HDD already setup and he could just install that - that is just a little too far I reckon. The above never happened to him or I.