The Cyclist

There is a long list published on the UK Gov website, and a link has been posted on here previously, of different types of pensions and they are all annoted either Government or Non Government. I'm not at State Pension age, so not something I have put any effort into, but the general consesus is that it is not classed as a Government Pension. Perhaps the person who posted it originally can repost it.

A very valid and interesting point. I might own a residence in Thailand, but I am allowed to stay here in 12 month blocks. Whoch technically, could be revoked at any time.

Yes, I know what the UK - Thai DTA says, that is why I posted Point 1, Government Pensions. Taxed only in UK Point 2, any other type of pension that is already taxed in the UK. Not taxable in Thailand to prevent Double Taxation Point 3, any additional pensions that are not taxed in the UK, are open to be being taxed in Thailand, should Thailand wish to tax them. Not sure how many people are existing solely on a meagre frozen state pensions or other type of pension that falls below the UK tax threshold, but I cannot imagine that the numbers would be very high. Which might be another reason why 3 RD Offices have basically said, UK Pensions, no need to file anything. Not worth the time and effort to chase frozen state Pensions for a meagre, if any return.

I cannot copy and paste for some reason. If someone could do the honours and copy and the paragraph directly below " The role of double tax agreements in Thailand " No-one can argue with the 1st sentence " To avoid double taxation and prevent tax evasion " It is the 2nd sentence that is the absolute killer, and something that mike lister has repeatedly, across various threads stuck his fingers in his ears and gnored and failed to appreciate. " Moreover, it is important to note that the principles set out in the treaties take precedent over the domestic law of the contracting States " https://thailand.themispartner.com/guides/double-tax-agreements-thailand/ In simple laymans terms, regarding UK Pensions, regardless of what the Revenue Code says * These pensions are only taxable in the UK * Pensions that are taxed in the UK should not be taxed again to avoid double taxation. * Any other pension that has not been taxed in the UK. It is up to Thailand if they wish to tax them. And the only way you are going to get an answer on Point 3 is by going to your local RD Office and asking them

I dont know mate. I was only trying to put a few pointers @bobbin way Apparently so.

It depends on what Country your pension is being paid. Some pensions are paid with tax deducted, some are not. Some are even paid that are tax exempt. If no tax is deducted at source, and it is being paid into a bank account in your home Country, your home Countries tax rules / laws will apply. Those will be the rules that you need to check and comply with.

Is that aimed at me ? You can quote Section 41 as many times as you like. It does not change the fact that Domestic Tax Policy and International Agreements are 2 different things. Glad you posted the above. For UK pensioners, who are thai tax residents, what takes precedent, the Thai Revenue code or an International agreement known as the UK - Thai DTA.

My take The Revenue Code is written with regards to people who are deriving income in Thailand, through employment, interest dividends, property rental, or any other form of income derived in Thailand, who are classed as Thai tax residents.. International Agreements AKA DTA's are written for people who are Thai Tax Residents, who derive no income in Thailand, but have income from their home Countries, that they then remit to Thailand. Otherwise, none of these threads would exist, DTA's would not exist, and every Thai Tax Resident would simply fall under the Revenue Code.

OK, as you appear to be unwilling to let anything go Just 1 question Why do we have DTA's ?

You are entitled to your opinion. What is equally odd and bizarre is that despite me offering you a course of action that would be far more beneficial, you seem reluctant to take it. The best you are likely to receive on these pages is opinion, backed up by recent experience. The answers to the questions that you repeatedly demand, are only going to come from Tax experts ( who all appear to be awaiting further instuctions from the RD as of 20 November ) or direct from the RD.

And it would appear, from the response of 3 RD Offices that pensions from the UK are not deemed as assessable income, by those 3 RD Offices at least. Pak Chong, Nan and Ubon. What other RD Offices might do, or say, I have no idea.

Perhaps because they might be valid points ? You have took 3 examples from 3 different people, from 3 different RD Offices and compiled list as to why you are not happy with what those 3 RD Offices have to say And you accuse me of being When, to my mind, the sensible thing to do would be to take those questions to a Tax Expert or even better, the RD themselves, and ask them there. That way you can ask the questions that you want to ask, instead of badgering people who did not ask questions, because they took the win, took what the RD Office told them at face value and walked away.

As you know the reasons, and I have advised you on those reason since October. It really should come as no surprise as to why I did not ask any questions. * Take the win and walk away. * I also believe that the Pensions referred to in Section 40, pertain to pensions derived in Thailand and not overseas income, be that pensions, or US SC or any other number of incomes that people might be receiving. * Which would also tie in with my long held understanding that if you did not derive any income in Thailand, there was no need to file tax returns * Which is a belief that is also held by the 1000's of others who also do not file tax returns. Over the course of the next 15 months, my belief, and the belief of 1000's of others may well be kicked into the grass, and we might have to file from the end of 2024. C'est La Vie, as the French might say.

Somebody with the same mindset as me. Take the win and swiftly and politely move on.

Nope Tax year 2024 was not discussed, any potential upcoming changes were not discussed.

Paging @Shoeless Joe Can you remind us of your visit to your local RD Office again Paging @Isan Farang Can you remind us of your visit to your local RD Office again. 2 that I can recall posting on the thread, and I think with similar experience to mine @Will B Good might have followed up on his unanswered emails.

So what was Assessable Income " prior to 01 Jan 2024 ? Was it not * Pak Chong RD Office think otherwise. * I will defer to numerous previous comments, made by myself, and others, who were led to believe, although probably did not know for a fact, that my UK pensions, and other sources of Income were not considered " Assessable income " in Thailand for tax purposes. Which is why I, and many others have never filed Thai Tax Returns. Why you keep banging on about Is a bit of a mystery. Why would I, or indeed anyone else ask questions on the why ? I went with the sole intention of obtaining a TIN and filing a 2023 tax return if it was required. Just like I do not need to know the why or the how various parts of my car operate. That is what Service Stations are for, or RD Offices, or Aircon Servicers are for. They are the people that need to know the why or the how.

Whatever you say I couldn't care less what he comes out with, it is not really going to affect me. Other than having to go to the RD Ofiice once a year, or never setting eyes on the place again. Either way, I wont be losing any sleep over it.

I haven't mentioned the new ruling in this thread, which stared 01 Jan 2024 that will come when the RD make a further announcement. *** Edited by moderation to remove flame. 2023 tax year is what is asked about. I also made it abundantly clear that I never asked any questions about any changes for 2024, and specifically said I would await a further announcement from the RD before proceeding any further.

Yes, you have misunderstood. Nothing to do with the new tax policy starting 2024. Thai Tax Resident 2023 Pensions remitted to Thailand in 2023. Many posts made about having to file if you have assessable income. Nobody can correctly identify what assessable income is. Not being 100% certain what constitutes assessable income, the best bet was going direct to the RD and asking them if I was required to file anything. Not sure why people have difficulty in understanding this.

Sure - I can understand that, that would be normal if someone was earning income in Thailand. I have never earned income in Thailand, never had a tax number or filed a tax return. With all the conflicting info that has been posted since Septembers announcement, especially around assessable income. I got off my backside and went to my local RD Office to ask 1 simple question. " This is what I bring into Thailand, Do I need to file anything, for tax year 2023 " ? I do not need to be told twice, or ask further questions when the answer is " No need to file anything "

I don't think the above is quite correct. However, Because I was a Thai Tax Resident in 2023 and as the income was from pensions, technically it was remitted the year it was earned. My thinking being that it might be assessable income, even if no tax was payable. It has been battered about enough that assessable income requires filing a tax return. So to keep myself clean, I dragged myself to the RD Office, and asked the question. It is certainly a possibility.

I went to find out if I needed to file anything for tax year 2023. I really do not / did not care what the reasons for " No need to file anything " were. **This post has been cropped by a Moderator to remove unnecessary flaming parts of the post.

No, you are not reading me correctly and do not try and put words in my mouth. I have no idea why Pak Chong RD told me I had no need to file anything. And just for the benefit of any doubt I have no idea if the same will apply to other RD Offices. I thought this was quite clear and explicit Simple common sense tells me that income taxed in home Country is highly unlikely to be taxed again in Thailand. Which is why I have posted it multiple times, long before I went to the RD Office. Whether that comes in the form of exemptions, tax credits or some other method remains to be seen.

I went to RD Office with 1 solitary aim. To find out if I needed to file anything for tax year 2023. I did not go there for a 6 hour Q&A session on the intricacies of Thai Tax Rules and Regulations * That I doubted very much if income taxed in home Country would be taxed again n Thailand. * DTA's were not mentioned and only 1 pension would be covered by a DTA * The combined amount of both pensions would be 6 figures on a monthly basis. Therefore, it is doubtfull that DTA's or amounts had any significance in the RD's answer. They may well have done, but a " No need to file anything " was good enough for me. ** A Moderator has removed the antagonistic and unnecessary parts of this post.