coma

...people are in denial of the fact that the Israeli Gov is every bit as bad and in alot off cases even more deadly than thier percieved foe.

If you mean that the Israeli government are dangerous to terrorists that target innocent women and children to maim and kill, you might have a point. However, the Israeli military do their best to avoid killing non-combatants even though Hamas use their fellow Palestinians as human shields, so trying to compare the two is utterly absurd.

Come on my friend. U know better than that. White phospherous was openly just by the IDF in the last Gaza incursion. And I think you know that this is a area weapon. Not a point weapon. I will leave it at that.

I don't think people can have a serious discussion about this conflict with anyone who doesn't admit to major faults on BOTH sides. I don't know what the result of the French action will be, but it certainly sounds unbalanced towards the Palestinians. I don't see how that actually brings peace and a stable two states with borders accepted by both sides. On the other hand, nothing else has worked and the smart money is that people will be having similar discussions another 50 years from now.

A good reasoned post Jingthing.

I agree. But Jingthing can you elaborate more on your view that the french action sounds unbalanced towards the Palestinians if you wouldn't mind?

You then mention "SOME" Palestinian groups, you would be referring to Hammas the current government?! That same group that encourages violence against all Jews - civilians, that same group that refuses to recognize Israel and has fired over 20 000 rockets into Israel targeting ONLY and MAINLY civilians. So I guess Israeli government should have them over for a cup of tea according to your logic, unless you know other wats to deal with "GROUP" as you like to call current terrorist government.

You are not worth any more time.You are delusional, bitter to the extent that your hatred is on open diplay in a public forum. This makes me feel quite sad for you. Your Avatar says it all.

Your arguement is an epic failure. Good bye.

The Land does not belong to Israel.

Does the US have a right to own the land in Iraq and Afghanistan just because it won? (I use the term 'won' very loosely in this instance).

Iraq and Afghanistan did not attack US on US soil.

Original owners have the right to claim or ask for the land back, certainly not the 3rd party. However original owners do not really want to have anything to do with Palestine. Jordan has had the pleasure and would rather give up the land then deal with them.

You like it or do not like it, but it is as simple as that.

Afghanistan knowingly allowed harboured Al qaeda. Al qaeda attacked the US on US soil. That is why it was invaded.

Thank you for the explanation and reasoning, HOWEVER it has nothing to do with whats been discussed when this example was made

Defeat can be a little hard to take at times, can't it? It just highlights a point that Wallaby made earlier. That is that Israel cannot do any wrong in the eyes of a large portion of world players and individuals including some people here. It seems these same people also like to throw red herring examples around when it suits thier own cause. However when confronted with similar off subject comparisons, which clearly defeat thier points of view, we get throw away lines such as, and may I quote " Thank you for the explaination and reasoning, HOWEVER it has nothing to do with what's been dicussed when this example was made" Unquote. You my friend, crack me up.

Some Palestinians action groups have used methods over the years that have sometimes been quite cruel, bloody and down right deadly. You will struggle to find not even one person who is nieve enough to deny this FACT. It is ashame and I believe a core problem of this issue that people are in denial of the fact that the Israeli Gov is every bit as bad and in alot off cases even more deadly than thier percieved foe.

The Land does not belong to Israel.

Does the US have a right to own the land in Iraq and Afghanistan just because it won? (I use the term 'won' very loosely in this instance).

Iraq and Afghanistan did not attack US on US soil.

Original owners have the right to claim or ask for the land back, certainly not the 3rd party. However original owners do not really want to have anything to do with Palestine. Jordan has had the pleasure and would rather give up the land then deal with them.

You like it or do not like it, but it is as simple as that.

Afghanistan knowingly allowed harboured Al qaeda. Al qaeda attacked the US on US soil. That is why it was invaded.

Huh? There are lots of anti-Israeli posts on here - including yours.

Congradulations on just racking up another one. Epic fail.

I didn't see the 'seaweed' thing, except as referenced. MSG is made from seaweed (according to what I've heard), is that the connection?

here are a couple quotes from a website showcasing MSG

This food additive explains many ailments in many people. Much legend and myth is being passed around about MSG to make it seem innocent. In fact, it can cause many different reactions, in some people fatal.

MERK'S MEDICAL MANUAL ONLINE:

"What is popularly called the Chinese restaurant syndrome is not a type of chemical food poisoning. Rather, it is a sensitivity to monosodium glutamate (MSG), a flavor enhancer often used in Chinese cooking. In susceptible people, MSG can produce facial pressure, chest pain, and burning sensations throughout the body. Many people feel anxious as well. The amount of MSG that can cause these symptoms varies considerably from person to person."

May cause itching, nausea, nervous system and reproductive disorders, high blood pressure

MSG is a highly reactive amino acid. It is used by scientists in studies to purposely cause death to areas of the brain and is fed to rodents to make a strain of obese and pre-diabetic test subjects. MSG is classified as a neurotoxin: too much of it introduced to the brain can cause rapid cell death.

A crazy serial poisoner could add poison to snacks, other food, or drink that tourists buy and the authorities would probably never be able to find the poisoner even if they were able to trace all the food and drink consumed to the location of purchase and/or consumption.

Why a 'crazy serial poisoner'? Most restaurants in Chiang Mai have MSG in their items, are they all 'crazy serial poisoners'?

Thairath reports that some of the autopsies have been completed. The elderly English couple - the contents of their stomachs were analysed and no evidence of drugs or poisons found. However, both were found to be suffering from enlarged hearts and blocked arteries and the doctor believes they died from coronary heart disease. [what, both at the same time?]

The 47 year-old female Thai tour guide who died had a stomach upset before she died and they're still analysing some food from her room. The New Zealand girl - they're still waiting for results from food taken from her stomach.

Thai investigators are not going to test for MSG poisoning. In their view, it's a silly premise. It would be like a US investigator looking to see if someone got drunk from drinking root beer. MSG is nearly as common in Thai cuisine as sugar and salt. There's no way they can see the potential hazard - even for farang who come from places where they don't use as much MSG.

I agree. If it was MSG then people would be going down all over Thailand.

People only look for what they want to see on this subject. It pays for one to try to be a little objective from time to time.

Every single time you have posted on this subject, it has been anti-Israel and usually excusing the Islamic terrorists. Maybe you should take your own advice that you give out so freely.

Once again you are having a laugh with yourself and racking up posts. Show me any anti Israel post I have made. Had i posted them as you say I have I would have felt the raith of the moderator.

...Another possible explanation is that the foreigners ('falang') committed suicide because they wanted to waste the time of the Royal Thai Police, thereby keeping them from doing useful things, e.g. playing video games.

There was a time a few years back that there seemed to be a epidemic of falang suicides. I knew 2 of them personally.

One was a German who I had been talking to about UNIX security, over a beer, the night before. He wasn't a close friend but we occasionally discussed IT matters in the bar. The next day he was found dead in his room with a plastic bag over his head and a rope tied around his neck. There was absolutely no indication that he was suicidal, and there was absolutely no investigation into his death.

Another guy who was basically an acquaintance which I met through friends died the exact same way. I didn't know him THAT well but we shared a few beers on occasion and we had exchanged mobile phone numbers. One day I got a phone call from his phone, but it wasn't him on the other end. They asked "do you know Andy?" At that time I didn't realize it was his phone because I just picked up without looking. I said "yeah! I know Andy ____ from Singapore" thinking of a different Andy that I had worked with; They just hung-up! The next day I received a call from one of his close friends informing that he had committed suicide. When we all got together to pay our respects, and down a few ales, it became apparent that every number in his phone had been called the day before his death.

It was pretty spooky. For a while I just stopped going out all-together, and when I did go I out, I was very careful with whom ever I spoke to. There was no investigation into his death either.

To this day I still don't know what really happened to these guys.

I will keep a note to make sure I never sit down for a beer with you then dude. Shiiit!

Like it or lump it. Hamas were and still are an elected government. That speaks for itself. Look at what is happening to unelected dictatorships and puppet regimes right throughout the Middle East as we speak. Western powers have forever been trying to push their concept of/ version of democracy around the world, mostly in the Middle East. And it maybe this very policy that will turn and bite them on the balls like so many other failed objectives such as supporting Saddam Hussain against Iran, Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahadin against the Soviets etc etc.The people of the Middle East are all now speaking freely. And it has the west pissing in its pants.

Why would the west be pissing in their pants? I haven't seen as much anti-west sentiment in these uprisings and protests, as I have anger at their existing governments.

Neither have I. What I will say is the US back Mubarak regime has beed ousted. The people of Egypt now speak freely and unhindered. It is quite possibe that they will want to reach out and help thier Arab brothers and sisters in Palestine by opening up the border with Gaza. This is just one model. It could be used as overlay for many other Arab nations currently rising up against puppet governments or oppressive regimes. From this you can join the dots or draw your own conclusions. This is just an observation. IMO it cannot be discounted.

Strange, why can Saudi do what China and Libya etc can not without violating "human rights"?

What do you say?

Tiger

U S A

Like it or lump it. Hamas were and still are an elected government. That speaks for itself. Look at what is happening to unelected dictatorships and puppet regimes right throughout the Middle East as we speak. Western powers have forever been trying to push their concept of/ version of democracy around the world, mostly in the Middle East. And it maybe this very policy that will turn and bite them on the balls like so many other failed objectives such as supporting Saddam Hussain against Iran, Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahadin against the Soviets etc etc.The people of the Middle East are all now speaking freely. And it has the west pissing in its pants.

I wonder why the Palestinians are not protesting.

Is it because they are afraid to protest Hamas or is it because things aren't quite as bad as their apologists claim.

It could even be they remembered what happened to them when they had the last free election and the pickle they put themselves in. Perhaps they have simply decided to stop digging the hole they dug for themselves.

I think it is more likely that they are happy with Hamas as they have a spine and actually fight for every Palestinian's freedom. Highly unlike US puppet Abbas.Just my opinion.

Like it or lump it. Hamas were and still are an elected government. That speaks for itself. Look at what is happening to unelected dictatorships and puppet regimes right throughout the Middle East as we speak. Western powers have forever been trying to push their concept of/ version of democracy around the world, mostly in the Middle East. And it maybe this very policy that will turn and bite them on the balls like so many other failed objectives such as supporting Saddam Hussain against Iran, Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahadin against the Soviets etc etc.The people of the Middle East are all now speaking freely. And it has the west pissing in its pants.

If the Israeli intelligence service 'Mossad' was batting for the other team then the Western World,including Israel itself, would be labelling it a terrorist organisation.

Same old story. People only look for what they want to see on this subject. It pays for one to try to be a little objective from time to time.

The hotel needs some PR advice at this stage. Instead of the Thai standard cover up and hope everyone forgets, they need to become proactive. Meaning launch their own investigation, find out what is wrong, fix it, then apologize profusely to the family members affected. Otherwise I think the hotel is finished. Thais will figure a evil ghost is at work, and never set foot in the place. And farangs will access to media which will play this story up, and never set foot there either. This is the age of information being freely disseminated, so the old ways of covering up simply do not work anymore.....

The thing is that the hotel operators probably already know what the problem is.If they let the cat out of the bag, people will have to take responsibility for their actions/ or inactions and heads will have to roll.

If what softgeorge says is correct, then it wouldn't only be that tour operator nor just agencies from Australia blacklisting this gaff. This establishment is destined to a long slow death itself. Unless somebody shows some intestinal fortitude and either solves the ..... or confesses up to the ....

Lastly may I add. It astonishes me why this case has not had intervention at ministerial level.The buck stops with them if their subordinates refuse to carry out thier duties correctly. All round a dam_n disgrace that has put a blemish not only on the establishment,but Chiang Mai and Thailand as a whole.

Just rode past the place half an hour ago. Very,very quite out front. Nobody to be seen at all.

Peace Process? With a bunch of terrorists? What a laugh.

If one looks at it from the otherside of the fence, they will notice that they are known as freedom fighters in Palestine. They are fighting for and on thier own land. Unlike Al qaeda [terrorists] who do not distinguish and conduct their operations abroad.

Good on you France. Lets hope that the EU follows suit. With that in mind and the recent UN security council vote on the issue it seems that most of the world is behind the Palestinian people having a home land. Just but a few are bending over backwards to deny them.

IMO it would be good for Israel to sort it out quickly once and for all. Once the Middle East revolution currently underway is over, US influence in the region could be greatly reduced and Israel may finally find itself deserted by Uncle Sam.Should be a very interesting year for the region.

<br />It's on page 1 of a widely read website for travel businesses.<br />How long does it take to sink in that 4 deaths in a hotel within a few days is not normal.<br />All the GM can say is its bad for business - disgusting!<br /><br /><a href='http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1146666.php?mpnlog=1&m_id=ds~nT_nY!#comm_sec' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Travel Mole</a><br />

<br /><br /><br />

The naivety expressed on this thread so far leaves me staggered. Do you have NO in-depth experience of Thailand??

If you had ANY local knowledge here, you would realise that the cover up on matters like this is both automatic and effective.

The attitude here is "Forget the people who died, nothing can bring them back. Business goes on, and it's MUCH more important than life or death!"

Only the foreign Embassies and Consuls can try to assist. And only to a very limited degree.

The western nations are all so Amazingly impressed by Thai efforts to keep drugs out of their own countries, they'll fall over backwards and 'kow tow' till the cows come home on such unfortunate, inconvenient, matters as individual deaths of 'small' people. Even their own.

Come on. Wake up and smell the excrement.

I agree with 1 point you make. We indeed cannot bring back the dead. However we have the ability to protect the living.This is were the Thai police/'system appears to have failed at. And on an epic scale in this incident.

Is there also the possibility of a homicidal nutter stalking the corridors of said hotel? With a bottle of poisonous gas or the like?

Certainly not casting aspertions, or sugesting there is. Just a paranoid thought.

Definately not beyond the realms of possibility. I think it is very suspicious indeed.

There are drugs around that work on stopping the heart. And unless they are target tested they will not show up in any pathology. In the wrong hands they would indeed be deadly. The BIB would do well to thoroughly canvas the entire hotel staff instead of conduct ing their current revenue raising campaign.

"Toxic seaweed,Simultainious heart attacks and existing medical conditions" my ar$&.

"Last year Thailand received 15.8 million international tourists, generating income of Bt585 million, he said."

That averages out at a tad over 37 Baht per international visitor. Is the quoted line a typo, or are the PM's advisors/scriptwriters slacking a bit?

Anyway, sad to say that Thailand (in common with just about every other country trying to entice tourists) can't be too picky at the moment.

So true, it makes you wonder if they know what the fuc_k they're actually talking about.

Surely it is a typo and should be billion. And as we all know alot more cash gets spent 'cash in hand deals' that the Gov cannot possibley have numbers on.

Only nine years? Life seems more fitting for the low life grub.

White minivans in Thailand are death traps. Commute in one at your own peril. I found driving around Baghdad in a pick up less nerve racking.

May..... have mercy on thier souls. :jap:

please don't crop my comments.

It makes it obvious which points are being addressed and the reader can go back two posts to reread the whole post if they wish to.

As far as your points go, is it really a surprise that Israel is trying to make life less pleasant for sworn enemies who are shooting rockets or mortars at civilian areas at least once a day - and much more before the defensive blockade?

Hamas is the one to blame for this and the Palestinian Arabs who voted for them.

Ulysses. You must be having a laugh.