UKresonant

If the dividends are distributed, whilst you are tax resident in Thailand, from 2024, they are Thai tax assesable whenever you remit them to Thailand. Dividends and interest tend to be taxed where you are (tax) resident, said a credible YouTube channel, rather than where they arise. (I would have the same situation with tax free in UK, Individual savings account, dividends. (As part of my UK end re-shuffle they will all trail to the account paying UK end essentials.) Dividends and gains taxable as just any other income in Thailand. So they will be a static income and growth portfolios if I'm in Thailand for a while.

I think that my centre of vital interest will likely be the UK, with article 4 fiscal domicile. Non-resident non-O or tourist visa, unlikely to be in Thailand more than 90 / 150 days on a single trip, unless there was a specific need. Own nothing in Thailand, if the wife buys a property I had to sign it was nothing to do with me anyway. The only thing I have there is enough to maintain bank accounts. UK Ties 90 day tie likely will be there 92+ Most years. Valid at least 2 years anyway Accommodation tie aways available and use it every year hopefully. 99.8 % of Income originates from the UK. But don't wish to get to that level, that Article 4, fiscal domicile needs debating. Should I become tax resident in Thailand in the future. I would try and design things in initial years. 1. Not having to file. 2. Not filing, whilst ensuring I'm absolutely not due any tax to Thai RD, article 4 may also help, Thailand not cetre of vital (tax) interest, if questioned. Would have to make sure bank interest never exceeds 60k THB ( not difficult probably) 3. If I was there all year in the more distant future, UK sufficient ties not in place, yes would file in Thainland etc I have no tax assessable items for Thailand currently the one year I was perhaps Tax resident, was spent, and cannot still be mingled on the books. So I would be in the same situation as someone as a brand new arrival, despite having been every year since 1993 (except 21/22 Covid .) Just don't want any hassle! (Pray they never move to Global Tax, that would make things substantially problematic for me.....)

I suggest that you advise (not complain) to the issuing embassy (Ministry of foreign affairs) that their issued visa No ####### does not seem to be fulfilling its purpose expectation (including a picture of the stamp in your passport), and ask them to please clarify. Advise them by hard copy proof of delivery post on return to home country, if no e-mail response. "I now have a note in my passport saying my next entry must be on a non-immigrant visa". Very weird! The MFA may find that useful information as well, as you don't desire a continuous stay even for 60 days. issue of Visa's being MFA jurisdiction (two ministries out of sync?) Look on the bright side, your not tax resident 🙂

The over 65 190k THB allowance certainly helps a lot (once I Qualify later), I'm simplifying it in my thoughts as up to 1 million Baht parity-ish, one to two million baht more in Thailand, over 2.2 m baht gradually becomes cheaper than U.K.

I think things feel safer, especially for those with simple financials, remitting tax deducted at source Pensions. But for those with more complex financials, there is more clarity, but some doubt still persists. I'm not continuously in Thailand normally, so as long as they keep the remittance basis not to bad. I've only had one year a while back, that I would have been Thai tax resident, and I had no major financial transactions that year (Globally). Reading the Norwegian Answer for example (earlier in the thread) https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/Norwegian_answer.pdf * Scary word = Global Not Scary "Remittance" mentioned later in the text though.. (Posted Thursday at 05:24 AM Mike Lister And another, albeit from the Revenue itself: 2.1 Under Internal Regulations In Thailand In Thailand pension income is regarded as assessable income under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code. A resident of Thailand must declare his worldwide income on the basis that the income received from abroad in a tax year must be brought into Thailand within the same year, based on Section 41 paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code. [link above] *)

I think it's because our tax treaty is about 42 years old and has an absence of specific words, in the pensions area (except for Government pensions),🤨. Reading the UK revenue end information and community posts are sometimes like walking into a library with no bookshelves, though the librarian perhaps knows where most were most of the books are.😐 Hopefully the associated general procedure and tax detail 🧐 discussed (where known) is pretty universally useful, I don't mean to be hogging the lane 🤔

If the state pension exceeds the (£12570 frozen till 2028?)Personal allowance, because of the high inflation indexation in the past couple of years, the tax code is adjusted on other pensions to pay the tax ( actually if savings interest exceeds the allowance slightly the adjust the coding as well ). If no other pension(s), they will ask for it probably. I can say that Occupational Government pension (DB), Occupational (DB), Private (DC), Private (Occupational DC SIPP) pensions that I know of are all automatically taxed via UK PAYE deduction. Tax return only needed if you actually need to pay tax on some other event. State Pension issues an annual Pension letter advising the amount for the next April To April payment period (No P60) DB pensions issue Annual pay advice (unless a change in amount or tax adjustment) and P60 End of year Tax Cert. (Gov can down load monthly Payslip via PDF). DC monthly pay advice Paper or PDF on different providers, and P60 end of tax year Certs P60 is 6th April to 5th April.

Thanks for that info. I guess the English translation of POR 162/2566 lost a bit somewhere. From 2024 on A. Earned / derived whilst Thai Tax resident. B. Assessable in the future if that at "A" is remitted to Thailand. If they think that when you spend one year ever, tax resident, and then they will tax anything that is sent to Thailand for eternity, then yes I will try and circumvent that, or think what that very special year may be. I wonder if they will bring out a 90per 179 day ME Visa? I suppose two single entry 90 day ones would do. Would be interesting if you find where you read /;seen that. Sounds like more mines in the minefield, or it could be easy the ain't really fully unfurled their new colours yet perhaps. Smiley face or Smiley with sharp teeth

not quite what you asked for, may be of some use? (consider as a draft)

Government could be National or Local authority... https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 Part C.1: UK State Pension or Incapacity Benefit... "If there is no ‘other income’ article, you cannot claim exemption under the treaty from UK Income Tax on your State Pension". https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/637e192f8fa8f56eabf75e5b/Double_Taxation_Treaty_Relief_Form_DT-Individual.pdf Part 😄 Application for relief at source from UK Income Tax (Thailand = No) (Relief at source may be available in cases where HMRC is able to exercise its discretion to issue a notice...????) Where we cannot agree to allow relief at source or cannot arrange it, you can claim repayment of part or all of the UK tax taken off, as appropriate. (Big Maybe, could be double tax for months, until sorted, if possible) P34 note (R/H Column) 4. Treaty does not include an article dealing with DT-Company Non-Government pensions. Also, no relief for State Pension or ‘trivial commutation lump sum’. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

That is the choice under consideration, to have the Beer in the UK or Thailand 😋

With the assumption of being Thai Tax Resident at both events....

Nope.

I'm starting to think the Thai RD may think it is odd were asking about tax on pensions. Cashng in your RMF units appear to be exempt from tax https://sherrings.com/rmf-ssf-salary-sacrificing-tax-allowances-thailand.html Normally the Retirement Mutual Fund would be cashed in, and they would tax whatever income is produced from where you place the tax exempt lump sum. Trying to find an example of similar in English for a Thai company pension .scheme. So the.question being "do I need to pay tax on my pension?" Expected logical answer would perhaps be NO in the Thai pension context.(?)

OCCUPATIONAL MANDATORY (PROVIDENT FUND) "Tax EEE tax policy is currently adopted in Thailand, i.e. contribution, investment and payout are all tax exempted, although such tax relief is subject to limit of...." from this 2009 publication https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---asia/---ro-bangkok/documents/publication/wcms_836733.pdf Trying to find a more recent reference....

Could it be treated the same as Thai Pensions, Tax free at point of taking it, but then anything derived from it is taxable? (UK Article 24) would not like to test that though! Maybe since the UK does not offer relief at the UK end (except Thai National & resident on Gov ones), they thought at the time the were always to get Tax credit relief under UK DTA 23 3). So assumed they did not need an article. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/637e192f8fa8f56eabf75e5b/Double_Taxation_Treaty_Relief_Form_DT-Individual.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties#:~:text=The double taxation convention entered,Corporation Tax and development tax

(Por 161/2566) For a resident of Thailand who Derives or Earns , whilst being a Resident of Thailand, foreign source assessable income from 1st Jan 2024 onward it's subject to tax when remitted to Thailand (Whenever). Previously it became taxable when remitted in the preceding Tax Year (to the Tax Filing 1st Jan - 31st March), when derived or earned, whilst being a Resident of Thailand. (Por 162/2566) don't apply 161/2566 for stuff prior to 1st Jan 2024! So if UK Pensions are of no interest to them to be taxed, by those RD offices perhaps are they thinking they were not derived while tax resident? wording of DTA would suggest not. Or s it because UK does not give relief from UK Tax, and the tax yield after credit relief (UK DTA 23) or exemption (UK DTA 19) is hardly going to yield very much. But there seemed to be a lack of interest, in Thai RD taxing pensions, going back many years. Someone way back suggested it was UK DTA 24, in that Similar Thai Pensions are not taxed as when they are not Government pensions, they are the same except it is a 100% tax free lump sum, rather than a 25% Tax free, and an ongoing payment. Equal treatment? Still a bit of a mystery. (No written exemption or firm explanation that I've ever been able to find). Going forward, Dividends, CGT as Personal income tax will, bank interest etc will still surely be. (this post is a bit delayed as I see there about 10 new post before I pushed the button) p.s I think the tax code is very much written from the Thai National, Thai resident, thinking of going overseas, context. Also we perhaps have a pre conceived concept, of the some times over officious application of untidy tax laws they are tasked to enforce.

Reading UK HMRC form "DT-individual" in conjunction with the Digest of Double Taxation Treaties (2018). Getting any relief from the UK end seems unlikely perhaps. Government pension - only if Thai national and resident in Thailand (N&R). Other Pensions "No Relief"

.......whilst tax resident in Thailand (?) re 162/2566.... (Just in case anyone is out on a 8month contract or back home to re-charge the financial batteries, have spoken to some doing that, on on flights home over the years)

I have to agree about the ISA I can see dividends paid out of the tax free ISA wrapper could be taxed as normal dividends, but no idea on calculating capital gains from any disposal out of the ISA if tax resident in Thailand.

The Thai Tax system is still usefully allowing remittance basis. So to some extent the amount being taxed, and what you remit can be controlled. The amount Thai tax is a bit variable compared with the UK tax, whether it is more more less, with various factors especially if above or below 65 years of age. It seems always less than the UK Income Tax once over circa 2 million Baht p.a. Looking if it were someone going to the UK , you only get 7 years of remittance basis , then it becomes unworkabley expensive for mortals. The Gov opposition party (due to this years election) are are actually wanting the remittance basis to be cancelled. With no apparent thought on how repulsive and inward looking, that will make the UK appear for companies may wish to go with inward investment, and find essential personel, may not wish to go. This years Thai tax move will have a component of reduced spend and small VAT offset probably, for folk with mostly foreign income. Details and a practicle mechanism yet to be seen of course....

Here is an extract from the UK remittance pages, I've not yet found the equivalent Thai RD page, but suspect it may be somewhat similar, in respect to you question..... "...Most remittances to the UK will be under the general rules but there are additional rules under which your foreign income and gains may be remitted to the UK. For example, you gift some of your foreign income or gains or something deriving from them to a person other than a relevant person - a gift recipient. It’s still possible for there to be a remittance of your foreign income or gains if the gift is used in such a way that it benefits a relevant person. Your money or property does not have to be physically imported from overseas for a remittance to occur. For example, it could be money you receive in the UK from another UK resident, in return for money or assets representing your foreign income and gains transferred to them abroad. 1.3 Relevant person A relevant person is: the individual themselves, that’s, the person to whom the foreign income and gains belong the individual’s spouse or civil partner, or people living together as if they’re spouses or civil partners the individual’s children or grandchildren under 18 years of age (this includes children or grandchildren of their spouse or civil partners).....

Why, thank you! It is disappointing that people don't pay attention to there home country's attitude to the subject, as Thailand cribbing across some of their tax regime, just highlights how aggressive they are. They could copy more and it would be much worse! Governmental organisations have a high motivation to grab more tax so it may be spent inefficiently (already spent with poor value for money more like). No one has a feeling about the subject, until a mirror suddenly appears.

That's the way I always look it as well when I've been there (and I've never done an extension yet ) That's the only Visa options available, other than actual custom and practice.

Are there many in those groups that seek a long term continuity of relationship with Thailand , like retired / married groupings, even if they are not in Thailand continuously? If they don't have a long term inclinations in Thailand, you are most probably correct and their posture may also reflect their home country tax and general environment, as for many other nationality groups. However North America and Europe are highly regulated tax environments, which could account for some variance in attitude. There are also non Nationality specific attitudes, not recognising how Thailand has developed and is developing fast in at least some, if not most ministerial jurisdictions. Not looking down and perhaps looking up slightly soon may become appropriate...A common interface struggles with their general subject situation having been defined 45 years in the past, however in other control aspects it may be looked on from overseas with envy.