welovesundaysatspace

32 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I have had the opposite experience to you when talking with Europeans here in TH and across SE Asia in fact.

And I had a completely different experience. Now what?

Maybe check what those people you talk to earn, work, and have in their brains. Because based on my experience, that’s a pretty good indicator for their opinion towards the EU and many other topics:

The less educated, smart, financially stable and professional they are, the more likely will they be against the EU (and basically everything, as long as they can be against it), usually based on the same nonsense you hear from Brexiteers (I.e. accusations, paranoia, conspiracy theories, and castles in the sky lacking any factual evidence). 

43 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So who decides what is the "correct" vote?

I still don’t understand what a “correct vote” is supposed to be. 

43 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What is the "correct" vote?

I never used this term, so please don’t ask me what it is. 

43 minutes ago, billd766 said:

1 from 2, 1 from 3, 2 from 3, 3 from 4 or 5 ad infinitum and who should pay for all these extra referendums?

(...)

Democracy doesn't work like that, which is why we have general elections to select people to make the decisions for us.

Please don’t blame me for this idiocy. The U.K. decided it wants to let everyone have a say in highly complex political and economical questions. I think it’s bullshit, but since you started it in the first place, i understand when people now want the same right that was granted to the Brexit campaigners. 

8 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

So you think we should vote as many times until we get the "correct" result?

That’s how democracy works. Democracy isn’t capped. 

48 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

What benefits ?

While I’m not surprised that some Brexiteers don’t want to admit the EU has its benefits, I’m amazed that some actually are so full of hate that they would publicly ask a stupid question like this. I mean, even my little nephew would grasp that the U.K. probably isn’t crawling back again and again because they don’t have anything else to do. 

9 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

 Those who favor staying in the EU have to accept that a majority of their citizens voted to leave.

No, they don’t. 

4 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Most clubs do in fact have variable types of membership.

Most clubs do in fact have their rules which you don’t have to accept if you don’t like them, but then you cannot be a member and enjoy its benefits either. 

4 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

And they don't insist you pay for updates to the club that will take place after you have left.

That depends on the rules you signed up for. Join a fitness club on a 12-months contract and leave the club after 1 month. The club will certainly insist that you pay what you signed up. 

No one forced the U.K. to agree to any terms. It was the U.K.’s own decision to be a member of the EU under specific terms. If the U.K. doesn’t like these terms now, why did it agree to it in the first place? It’s like all those foreigners whining on Facebook that they have to pay a 12-months gym membership they themselves signed up for. 

4 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

The reality is that the EU can flex on many things.

Sure they can. But why should they? They will only do so if it is in their interest. Everything else would be pretty nonsense. 

3 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

The way it will be done does depend on the EU up to a point, but only up to a point.

Not at all. 

52 minutes ago, aright said:

You didn't identify any faults?

Everything I identified was to me a fault and among other things determined my vote. If they are not faults to you ,you need to stand up and be counted.m

For something to be a fault, it would (a) have to be true, and (b) actually have a considerable negative impact. In order to influence my voting decision, it would also (c) have to be relevant to or fixable through what I’m voting for. None of that is true for the points in your list.

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I will repeat if you don't like my opinion tell me why.

Because for something to qualify as an opinion, it needs arguments to back it. 

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Why won't you share your so called facts and logically sound arguments it would save a lot of time since you feel they are so compelling.

Those are your accusations. You have to prove it. I won’t do your job. 

As for a fact-based and logically sound argumentation, have a look at the lecture from Sir Rogers linked here. Maybe that gives you an idea what the difference is between your laundry list of fluffy accusations and an opinion that can be taken seriously. 

34 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

With all due repect to you, the case for brexit was made, and the vote was carried.

I can’t see where a case was made. Yes, a vote was carried out, but a case made? No. 

34 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Endless post mortems on Thai Visa will not help you.

Not sure why I would need help and for what. If I recall correctly, people were asking what the actual opportunities of a Brexit are, because someone (or some article) suggested there are. I merely responded to a list of so-called opportunities. 

34 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

rather than endlessly debating the pros and cons of a decision which was taken a long time ago.

If you don’t like this debate, I don’t think anyone forces to be here. Either way you will have to let those who like „endlessly debating the pros and cons of a decision which was taken a long time ago“ continue their discussion. 

9 hours ago, aright said:

Certainly. This from a previous post of mine.

 

No mention of (...)

With all due respect, if you wanna make a case for Brexit, you should come up with:

1. Facts (and, thus, sources stating these);

2. How these actually impact the U.K.;

3. How a Brexit would change/improve that sitution. 

And, no, I am not saying this to make things difficult for you. It’s pretty much what every proposal requires, and it’s exactly what makes some of the analyses about the negative impacts of Brexit so brilliant. 

Your list is missing at least some, if not all of these. It reads like a compilation of fluffy accusations and irrelevant ideas about the EU, and overall like a pretty helpless attempt to bash someone. If that is all what Brexit supporters can produce, I really don’t who you want to convince, especially in light of the very strong analyses others came up with. 

36 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

When a nation has such a low interest in their future, so their own choice.

I have to admit I enjoy seeing stupid people reap what they sowed. But trying to ignore these bad thoughts, we have to admit that:

1. There are many people who did not want this, but who will equally effected because of the stupidity of others. Some of them are my friends. They don’t deserve it because they didn’t vote for it. 

2. Many of those who voted for it did so because they’re illiterate and easy prey for the people who manipulated and lied to them. They don’t deserve it because they should have been protected from their own inability in the first place by not exposing them to such a complex matter. 

So while I tend to think สมน้ำหน้า, we should be fair and hope for the U.K. that someone will get their senses back and undo this Desaster. 

1 hour ago, tebee said:

 

Who knows how long a new one will take ?

3.5 years on average, based on how long it took the US to negotiate 20 or so trade deals. (https://piie.com/blogs/trade-investment-policy-watch/how-long-does-it-take-conclude-trade-agreement-us)

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

And how do you propose it be established that people HAVE changed their mind?

The same way it happened last time. 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm pretty sure those supporting brexit have not said that there can NEVER be another referendum on the issue, just that the the recent referendum result should be implemented (as per the govt. leaflet sent to every household prior to the vote).

If the U.K. people wish to change their mind and want their government to stop implementing the Brexit, that will should be respected. Everything else would be anti-democratic. 

The UK decided to open the Pandora’s box of letting every Tom, Dick and Harry participate in the decision-making; you wanted democracy by referendum. So be it; at least be consistent about it. 

14 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I do not think that will not happen for many many reasons

That applies to everything we discuss here, regarding any topic. We will always only be the ones sharing our personal views, regardless what the people in charge will actually do. That cannot be an argument; it could only be an argument for closing this discussion board (and any type of discussion) altogether. 

32 minutes ago, aright said:

link?

GCHQ.gov.uk

46 minutes ago, aright said:

Jean Claude-Juncker was forced to resign as Prime Minister of Luxembourg after a lurid spy scandal, and he refused to take responsibility for Luxembourg's intelligence service carrying out illegal wire taps, kept 13000 secret files on people

Sounds like peanuts compared to the U.K. spying on each and all of us. 

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Yes but the vote was won to leave, so this can not be turned in to another referendum. 

What law exactly forbids such referendum? 

2 hours ago, aright said:

I am no expert so can you throw some light as to why historical IMF data can't be used to  measure the success or failure of trading outcomes. 

It’s the job of the author to show how historical IMF data can be used to measure the success or failure of trading outcomes. That’s where he fails because all he does is pulling out some data to jump to a conclusion. 

6 minutes ago, aright said:

 "in with everything" or an "out with nothing" negotiating stance. 

If “everything” refers to the four freedoms then you’re right. But that’s something everyone was aware of in the first place, not a big surprise here. Whatever the U.K. was aiming for — they knew that the four freedom would not be negotiable. 

20 minutes ago, oilinki said:

The good thing about Brexit is that the process has presented various good reasons, why the rest of us should stay within EU..

That’s exactly what I mentioned earlier. We gotta thank the UK for providing us a good case study and exposing the lies of all the Le Pens, Wilders, and Farages out there. 

All those right-wing people will have it increasingly difficult to bash the EU. The majority of their voters and supporters are illiterate. They prefer simple lies over complex facts. That’s how Trump made it and that’s how the Brexiteers made it. Convincing them with explanations is almost impossible, because it’s too complex for them. 

What they will understand, however, is the the hard reality of this Brexit desaster. In future, we don’t have to try to explain to them the complexities of a heavily entangled world. We can just point at the UK.