welovesundaysatspace

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Hogwash, we all know about parliamentary democracy and we all know that parliament passed a bill to allow the British people to have their say about remaining or leaving, and with the information they received back they decided to go with the wishes of the British people.

It’s not hogwash. If it was hogwash, you wouldn’t be in this situation. In fact, by complaining about “remainers in parliament blocking democracy”, you’re just admitting the facts: the UK, after all, is still a parliamentary representative democracy. The referendum did not change that a jot. 

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Just because you don't agree with it, it matters not one jot.

It’s not about agreeing. It’s about facts. Fact is, Brexit is not happening because of no parliamentary majority. 

If it’s about agreeing, you can disagree with the system of parliamentary representative democracy. But that’s doesn’t change it. You would have to do more than win a Brexit referendum  

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The majority of MPs voted to leave the highly democratic EU, they triggered art 50 and it became law we leave, but I know you will argue untill you are blue in the face and will always want the last word, so give it your best shot, I'm bored with all this nonsense.

...and now the majority of MPs are blocking it. I guess you have to accept both parliament’s decisions, not just the one you like. 

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Remainers have always had a problem understanding democracy, democracy doesn't mean throwing teddy out of the cot when you don't get your own way, it means respecting the wishes of the majority.

The UK is not a referendum democracy, it is a parliamentary representative democracy. Remainers seem to understand that, and they are using that system for their cause. Whereas Brexiteers fail to do so, and seem be the ones throwing tantrums (“wishes of the majority”). If you want democracy by referendum change the system, otherwise don’t complain when you don’t have it your way. 

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Jacob has always stood up for democracy, and I have a strong belief he will continue to do so.

He has been shouting from the back benches and social media accounts. 

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

Good people don't leave, they stand up for democracy and the wishes of the people. When the going gets tough strong people take action, weak people leave.

Don’t wanna burst your bubble but that’s nothing more than the romantic thought of people who are not good. “stand up for democracy” what does that even mean? You really believe anyone would risk their reputation just to earn the applause of sole spoonies? Let’s see if Jacob and his buddies will “stand up for democracy”...

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

They wouldn't have served under a Boris government, because they wouldn't have been chosen. Look before you leap.......Geronimo.

I don’t what would or wouldn’t be. What I can tell you is that good people leave when leadership sucks, and that you can already see good people leaving. Now let’s see whether there will be equally good people following, and what they will be able to achieve. 

1 minute ago, vogie said:

"Good people" Alan Duncan ????????????. No, bad people leave before they are pushed.

Yes, good people leave when their bosses suck. And, no, it’s only Alan Duncan. Hammond, Gauke, Stewart — didn’t they all announce they won’t serve under a Boris-PM? So let’s see what cabinet he puts together and what it’ll be able to achieve. 

40 minutes ago, transam said:

Oh well, another one who has forgotten what Cameron told the nation regarding the vote. Where were you at the time, on yerrr hols....????

Why would anyone care about the false promises an ex-PM told before he buggered off? Would that also apply to, say, a Corbyn-PM?

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

You think the scheming, blocking, delaying of Brexit is helping with business certainty?

 

It would appear to be you who is passing the blame. If Remainers would accept the result of the democratic vote then we could move on. Unfortunately, the losers of this vote cannot accept defeat. They'd rather destroy their own party or in many cases drag down their own country, than accept defeat. They are anti democrats. Only able to accept the result if they win. 

The one to blame is the government for not tabling an agreement that parliament can agree on, or calling the whole thing off until such agreement has been found. Government clearly is in the lead here, but I doubt a Johnson government will do any better than the May one. You can’t have your cake and eat it, so it’s either pleasing the ultras or protecting the economy and reputation of the country. Both doesn’t work. If it’s the latter, you’ll have to compromise (or campaign until you have enough ultras in parliament). 

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Don't worry, most Brits will have ignored the entire comment, as it was nonsense 

Less nonsense than a comment claiming to speak on behalf of “most Brits”. 

1 hour ago, Thairealist said:

 

Can I thank you,as a none British citizen, for educating us British on how our political system operates.

You’re welcome. You should know all that stuff yourself. 

1 hour ago, Thairealist said:

It’s on a par with you telling us how we must not Brexit, as you don’t like our version of Democracy.

I didn’t, but never mind. 

14 minutes ago, teatree said:

If Boris came to her to prorouge parliament, she would do it.

 

If he came to her for a referendum, she would do it.

 

If he came to her for a dissolution of parliament, she would do it.

 

Whatever is placed before her she will consent.

I’m afraid that is just a claim that you cannot prove. Either way, it doesn’t change the powers she has. 

14 minutes ago, teatree said:

 

She is a figurehead and has no real power.  (...)

Comparing QE2 in terms of political power to the executive of the EU is absurd.

She is the most powerful person of the state. It is only absurd to compare her with an EU politician because she (1) is unelected, and (2) has more power. 

47 minutes ago, vogie said:

You originally said: most powerful person in the UK political system. 



Feel free to ignore the word “political”; it wasn’t the most accurate choice of words I admit. 

48 minutes ago, transam said:

Think you are missing the point that on paper she is the head of state but in reality she has no clout at all. She is the UK's figurehead, and an excellent one too...

I’m afraid you’re wrong. “in reality” she has the final say on any new law and can veto or accept it however she likes. 

10 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

If the Queen refused to sign off a bill of law, at the very least she would be forced to abdicate. It's highly likely that it would lead to the monarchy being abolished. 

In a constitutional monarchy, the monarch cannot continue if they are publicly opposed to the democratically elected government.

The question wasn’t what could happen in future. The question was who the most powerful person in the UK is; only that I commented on. 

10 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

It would be pedantic to suggest the Queen is the most powerful person in UK politics - and i'm sure you're not pedantic...????

It’s a fact she is. If facts are pedantic for you, fair enough. 

28 minutes ago, teatree said:

When has she ever refused?

I don’t know. I just commented on her powers, not her decisions. 

38 minutes ago, transam said:

So you reckon she liked everything put to her over her 66 years...?

 

 

I reckon nothing. 

1 minute ago, aright said:

The difference is you lied to yourself which I assume is value driven and guess what no one criticize's  you because you are only accountable to yourself.  

No, I didn’t lie to myself. I simply couldn’t look into the future. I guess the same applies for politics. 

1 minute ago, aright said:

If Ms Sturgeon pushes for another referendum she will have lied to the electorate, to which she is accountable. 

Some Brexiteers will say that. Everyone else doesn’t care. 

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Tell me one item she has refused in her 66 years on the throne.....

The last Royal to upset the apple cart was Queen Anne in 1707 who did refuse to sign a Bill....????

Again, I never said she refused one. I said she has the power to.

6 minutes ago, transam said:

She is not, what she does is a formality....

Nope, she has the power to approve and veto laws. That’s not a formality; you’re wrong. 

37 minutes ago, transam said:

Tell me one "Bill" she has not approved....?

That wasn’t the question. What I said was that she’s the most powerful person in the UK’s political system. 

4 hours ago, teatree said:

What?  When was the last time the Queen proposed legislation? 

I don’t know. That wasn’t the question. I said she’s the most powerful person in the UK political system. 

4 hours ago, teatree said:

The powers that the Queen has are formalities. 

Before a bill passed can become law, her approval is required. That’s not a formality. 

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Japan has the highest debt ratio but Greece, Italy, Portugal, Belgium, Cyprus, France and Spain are all higher than the UK, which is just above the EU average. 

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

1) Sovereign debt / National debt

Debt-to-GDP ratio: http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-national-debt/

Japan: more than 200%

US: more than 100%

UK: c. 85%

EU: c. 80%

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2) Inflation across the EU has not been uniform, of course, in Greece (debt colony) there were runs on banks and capital controls imposed, sending inflation very high just a few years back - all conveniently forgotten by the Europhiles.

We are talking about the EU economy, not Greece. Please edit your original post to say that Greece’s economy sucks and I won’t disagree. 

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Netherlands, Germany and Poland are running at or around 2.5% of GDP - the UK is too. The US/China are running at around the same or lower levels, China at 2.7% and US at 1.6%.  

Average inflation rates: https://www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/cpi-inflation-2018.aspx

US: 2.4%

Great Britain: 2.3%

Germany, Netherlands: 1.7%

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Youth Unemployment was running at 53% between 2010 - 2014 in Spain and Greece, with Portugal not far behind them and Italy not far behind it. It is now at 40% in Greece, 33% in Italy and Spain and 21% in France! With overall unemployment in southern European nations at between 9% (France) and 19% (Greece) with Italy and Spain representing the median. Excellent figures eh!? ????

You didn’t say Greece’s youth unemployment. You talked about EU unemployment rates. 

EU unemployment: https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

Greece: 18.5%

EU: 6.5%

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Wage compression, social breakdown, sectarian violence and many thousands of assaults, mass rapes in 2015/16 with the issue continuing across European nations. For the first time in its history we see the restriction of centuries old European customs and women unable to walk freely in once safe places

Utter nonsense. Far-right fanatics posting single instances of crime (or, even worse, taking footage from other countries claiming it happened in Europe) while crime statistics clearly shows that percentages haven’t gone up significantly. Just like claiming the EU’s economy is bad when all you can come up with is Greece. 

4 minutes ago, teatree said:

 

Bit silly comparing QE2 with the EU President anyway.  One of them is in the most powerful executive position of the EU government and the other stays out of politics completely. 

The UK head of state is the most powerful position of the UK. Not silly at all. 

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The most stagnant market in the world with pan-continental civil unrest, migrant crises, growing political instability, reduction in 'soft power' and influence, massive rates of unemployment across many constituent states (up to 55% in Southern Europe), high rates of inflation, terrible fiscal policy and mind-boggling debt

Another post full of false information. “up to 55% [unemployment] in Southern Europe” says it all.

Mind-boggling debt? Japan, Singapore, the US, even the UK all have higher debt ratios than the EU. 

Inflation? The US, Canada, China, and the UK top the list. The EUR is the second largest reserve currency as well as the second most traded currency in the world after the USD. All rating agencies give the EU a top rating (triple A). 

Civil unrest? Maybe visit some countries with civil unrest rather than celebrating some yellow-vest protesters, then you’d know what you’re talking about. 

Reading Daily Mirror too much?