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loonodingle
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Posts posted by loonodingle
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Very hard to defend an allegation from 25 years ago. You have to be concerned that he hasnt just peed someone off. Like an ex partner who is upset he went to thailand. Its all to easy to say men who go to thailand are kiddy fiddlers. It's all to common an opinion around the world. Tell someone in the UK you have been to Pattaya and they will think u are a perve who cant get a women and need a prozzie or a lad.
Well, it's equally as hard to prosecute an allegation from 25 years ago, if not more so considering that the burden of proof is on the accuser. Despite what paranoid ex-pats say, people can't just pull allegations out of thin air and watch the justice system blindly accept them and jail people.
Considering that the victim contacted the police about the sexual offences caused to her when she was between the ages of four and nine, what makes you think it's an angry ex-partner behind this..? Because that's a pretty bold claim to make so I imagine you must have something to back it up, rather than just a vague sense of solidarity with the convicted.
Mine was a general comment about people who are accused of something 25 years ago and cant prove otherwise. I have no knowledge of this case.
However there's been some high profile cases recently where people have been acquitted including the guy from coronation street who's partner made the claims after he left her. A very serious allegation involving his daughter and he was cleared.
Not everyone accused is guilty. I have no solidarity with this person or anyone else just a concern that justice maybe be skewed in favour of guilty unless proven innocent in any case not just these types
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Very hard to defend an allegation from 25 years ago. You have to be concerned that he hasnt just peed someone off. Like an ex partner who is upset he went to thailand. Its all to easy to say men who go to thailand are kiddy fiddlers. It's all to common an opinion around the world. Tell someone in the UK you have been to Pattaya and they will think u are a perve who cant get a women and need a prozzie or a lad.
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No Comment!!!!
BANGKOK — A Thai newspaper today published an apology for its coverage of the investigation into the murders of two British travelers in September on Koh Tao.
Khaosod newspaper apologized for two headlines suggesting the Warot Toovichian, the son of a village chief on Koh Tao, was responsible for the savage murders of British tourists David Miller and Hannah Witheridge on the island.
The newspaper also accused Warot, 22, of being the son of local “mafia” in two articles published on 24 and 25 Sept.
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Moderators
Could we perhaps have a poll on this thread along the lines of:
Do you believe that
- The B2 are most likely the rapists/murderers alone?
- The B2 were complicit but not alone?
- The B2 are purely scapegoats?
- The most likely suspects are being protected, hence (3.)
I don't think the suggestion is in poor taste but it might give us a better idea of the spread of opinions.
The list above is not exhaustive and anyone could change for a better format.
regards
S
My opinion
- B2 could be the murderers alone but most likely had complicits or witnesses who were with them and never did anything to prevent the killings.
- B2 could be complicit , but someone else did the murders
- B2 are purely scapegoats : No, I believe they were complicit or at least witnesses to the crime
- It could be other suspects are being protected , I would also like to add that Sean could be involved , in my opinion just as much as NS or anyone else who were on the island that night
I am open for all of these options , in a case like this you can never be 100% sure about anything. That's why I will never support one side alone without substantial evidence.
Again all of these theories has been discussed so many times on TV and we all know it will only end up as speculations until some real , solid facts are provided.
Sometimes, Balo, real solid facts are limited to collateral evidence. The test for this prosecution is to make a case that could prove beyond reasonable doubt (in an ideal world) and for the defence to contest it. So far, the prosecution has yet to have anything presented as substantiated, validated, or verified - and that includes DNA.
IMO, the B2 are purely scapegoats. Why? This is based on (mine and others) observation of motivation and behaviour of them and the local population. Is there a valid rationale as to why translators were intimidated at the trial that makes any sense? And why the RTP should become involved with an altercation with the defence, when the former had a 'perfect' case against the B2 is clear to me that there isn't a beyond reasonable doubt case against the B2.
It is also my opinion that of the various scenarios presented here, in the media, or by the ineptitude of the RTP's investigation and history of corruption, the most likely one is that the B2 are indeed scapegoats and not murderers or accomplices.
Other than the DNA which is being challenged then its all Circumstantial evidence.
The DNA is the hardest challenge as everything else has fallen down at the first hurdle.
For the non native speakers
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Circumstantial+Evidence
Circumstantial evidence relates to a series of facts other than the particular fact sought to be proved. The party offering circumstantial evidence argues that this series of facts, by reason and experience, is so closely associated with the fact to be proved that the fact to be proved may be inferred simply from the existence of the circumstantial evidence.
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Police 'Never Checked' CCTV After Britons Killed
There are gasps in court as judges hear of a series of apparent blunders in the hours after the two Britons were found dead.
It is alleged Ms Witheridge had been raped, and Mr Miller had been left to drown in the sea with severe head wounds.
He said his inquiry had not investigated rumours of an altercation between Ms Witheridge and the son of the Koh Tao headman, a local politician, in the early hours of 15 September.
Neither he nor his officers interviewed the headman's son, who is nicknamed Dodo, who was captured on CCTV in Bangkok later that morning.
He said he did not have the results of DNA samples taken from Dodo, and had not received a report from Bangkok of an interview with the youth.
http://news.sky.com/story/1523975/police-never-checked-cctv-after-britons-killed
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This has been discussed 100 times before but just for you again...........................
National NGO's are up in arms over this case, including reprieve and amnesty, why? They do not need to have evidence as they can see with their own eyes. They have called for independent investigations into various aspects of the case.
The UK police has already made a damning statement from the police that were here in Thailand, you can find that link in this thread.
The UK police IF they have given any info to Thai authorities then this would go against their normal procedures because of the possible death penalty. Hence the NGO's enquiring with them
If they are up in arms why is there only one news clipping on there website which goes back to march ?
It seems to me reprieve are more concerned on the sharing of information not that the B2 have been used as scapegoats.
Actually Zoe Bedford the Case worker has worked tirelessly on this case. Just because its not splattered all over the place it doesn't mean they have been canvassing for attention. They have uncovered a lot of information in unison with the solicitors Leigh Day http://www.leighday.co.uk. and some concern citizens.
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I don't think NS could defeat David even with a knife. Too scrawny and weak. It's possible this guy could have ... His Facebook went from open to all accept 2014 to totally private now. This guy should be at the least investigated. I realize that would take RTP who want justice. It's all a dream now.
Thai's fight in packs surely you know this.?? This would have been a pack of men who committed this crime not a single person IMHO
Agree whole heartedly, it's why I said both are likely involved. It's my opinion that there were more than 3 attackers that night. Some were muscle, some were power. The muscle got David I believe, for his wounds... They dispatched David and destroyed Hannah (sorry Hannah, RIP). This was much more than a rape as RTP claim.. It was a hate filled rape that ended in murder. David died for being brave enough to see what was happening.
Mon was by his own admission in the area at the time.. Yet heard or did nothing. Accept, threaten someone he thought would make a weak target for taking the wrap. No, my friends, the events following David and Hannah's death point undeniably to someone of influence, maybe someone connected to influence. At any rate, the B2 could not be the only people involved or they would have been arrested from the start.
No, these boys are goats. The world sees that... Aside from maybe 10 ppl max on Thaivisa.
Let me remind you Warot's "fan page" has 1000 "likes". Guess how many Koh Samui headman son has.... 1000? lmao
Don't forget Hannah had a Blonde hair in one of her hands.
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This has been discussed 100 times before but just for you again...........................
National NGO's are up in arms over this case, including reprieve and amnesty, why? They do not need to have evidence as they can see with their own eyes. They have called for independent investigations into various aspects of the case.
The UK police has already made a damning statement from the police that were here in Thailand, you can find that link in this thread.
The UK police IF they have given any info to Thai authorities then this would go against their normal procedures because of the possible death penalty. Hence the NGO's enquiring with them
Metropolitan police says there's confusion & inconsistencies in Koh Tao case
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I don't think NS could defeat David even with a knife. Too scrawny and weak. It's possible this guy could have ... His Facebook went from open to all accept 2014 to totally private now. This guy should be at the least investigated. I realize that would take RTP who want justice. It's all a dream now.
Thai's fight in packs surely you know this.?? This would have been a pack of men who committed this crime not a single person IMHO
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i would be careful what claims you tinfoilers make.
A bit like this guy who thinks the british government are giving misleading information to the victims family.
http://thailandjustice.com/change-org-update-on-koh-tao-by-christopher-harkins/
Perhaps you better brush up on this article rather than promoting your own conspiracy to stop Justice
Gaping holes in the investigation into the murders of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Thailand have forced a judge to doubt it will ever reach a ‘conclusive outcome’.
The series of police blunders in the investigation against Burmese men Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo has stunned the court on Koh Samui, in the Gulf of Thailand.
The bodies of Miss Witheridge, 23, and Mr Miller, 24, were discovered in September last year, on Koh Tao Sairee Beach.
But failures to investigate vital evidence in the case is putting the trial in jeopardy.
Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed the shocking failures of the investigation when he appeared in court today.
The staggering blunders include:
Failing to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr Miller
Failing to sufficiently explain apparent discrepancies between the clothing of potential suspects, whose images were caught on CCTV
Failing to take into account body measurements of potential suspects when examining CCTV footage
Not being present during the collection of crucial DNA evidence, despite being the investigating officer in the case. Colonel Chiewpreecha admitted he had no idea how the DNA was taken and did not know whether the samples had been sent to Singapore for testing.
What’s more, Colonel Chiewpreecha did not know the whereabouts of a green towel that was found on Hannnah’s body, and claimed that it was not relevant as he believed it was placed on Hannah’s body after it had been discovered.
The officer said he did not know whether he would have expected the clothes of the suspects to be covered in blood after the violent attack.
He told the court that he did not know who the garden hoe that police had previously suggested was used to kill the pair belonged to.
He had to be reminded by the court that a worker from a nearby resort had claimed the hoe, and said it was he who had found it on the beach.
The officer did also not know who had reported the discovery of the bodies, because the police had not logged the name of the caller.
The difference between me and you is I don't think I know it all ! I don't think I know more that the british government and the victims family but you do.
Just because the police didn't do everything by the book doesn't make the B2 innocent.
Your case is built on nothing more than grainy cctv images and a rumor started by someone convicted of downloading kiddie porn.
But if you think you have a good enough case I can give you directions to the Samui Prosecution building, its on the ring road in na mueang opposite the kawasaki dealership.
Sounds like another Taxi driver with information to me??
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Have to say I find it strange that the phone has not been presented as evidence already seeing as the investigating officer has already answered questions on it, maybe they forgot to put it in the trolley?
They better be quick though as the prosecution is now two thirds of the way through their presentation, they've only 3 more days left to reveal any further evidence and witnesses before the defense then gets to have its turn!
How do you know it has not been presented as evidence?
Chilli they didn't have to bring the item into court. They had the details pics etc as I explained. As far as reference to a phone on the beach, they mean the phone the B2 are claimed to have found from David and taken back to their room. Its not a separate phone.
Under cross examination the defence asked the officer have you ever checked to confirm it is David's phone as you have suggested. He said no we haven't. So its irrelevant., they have offered no evidence to prove its David's its just they said it is.
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So you point is what?
Why don't you go back and try to find these 2 Mobile Phones of David's that don't exist, or the evidence about this mobile phone thrown out of court, which never happened as it hasn't been presented yet. At least then you showed small signs of hope and some logic. .
Have to say I find it strange that the phone has not been presented as evidence already seeing as the investigating officer has already answered questions on it, maybe they forgot to put it in the trolley?
They better be quick though as the prosecution is now two thirds of the way through their presentation, they've only 3 more days left to reveal any further evidence and witnesses before the defense then gets to have its turn!
The phone was part of the trial pack. It will/did include all details and pictures of the phone front back and sides along with the IMEI and sim number etc. They dont need the physical item I don't think.However the RTP agreed they hadn't followed it up to see who it belonged to. Lots of phones get stolen or lost and some maybe even handed into the police that they put into a plastic awaiting the owner to contact the Polee perhaps.
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Cite that the phone in question was an iPhone 4s?
I already did make and model is (Iphone 4S Black 16GB) this is the phone the police claim was davids phone
I say so is not a citation.
To ALL the Members here on this thread...
AleG is an extremely sneaky piece of work. Obviously here to cause a problem as He/She has already had a private message from me explaining why it would be wrong of me to disclose information on here however I have offered He/She a bet of 500USD that at that end of the case I will post exact details of the phone in the evidence.
The offer stands 500 usd donation to Hannahs charity if I fail to prove it and you pay 500 usd if I do... At the end of the case.
Get a back bone will you. and don't mislead people or p off this thread
Still waiting for a response AleG. You have had it in a private message that you read. You have had it in a public forum. Put your money where your mouth is its for a good cause 500usd to Hannah's charity if I cant prove it after the case ends.
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No they are referring to the phone the B2 found on the beach.
Post the link that states they entered 2 phones as evidence. the phone I am speaking about is the Iphone 4S Black 16GB as entered into the evidence pack
Cite that the phone in question was an iPhone 4s?
I already did make and model is (Iphone 4S Black 16GB) this is the phone the police claim was davids phone
I say so is not a citation.
To ALL the Members here on this thread...
AleG is an extremely sneaky piece of work. Obviously here to cause a problem as He/She has already had a private message from me explaining why it would be wrong of me to disclose information on here however I have offered He/She a bet of 500USD that at that end of the case I will post exact details of the phone in the evidence.
The offer stands 500 usd donation to Hannahs charity if I fail to prove it and you pay 500 usd if I do... At the end of the case.
Get a back bone will you. and don't mislead people or p off this thread
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Sean claimed he fled the store hid in the jungle then under a snooker table...lol...
What actually happened was the police came and took him away to protective custody. Mon was taken into the police station. Sean washed up and got his things before leaving the same afternoon with a handshake from the head Copper and a don't come back M8.
Evidence vanished into this air (well a flight to Italy) where it took residence in Milan. Reinvented as a sweet guitar player. Where he found work playing in a bar for a few euro's each week.
It was a well orchestrated attempt to loos e the only person who would shed light on what happened. However at the first sight of a way out Mr McAnna back peddled rapidly and tried to discount what he claimed had happened. But listen to his words. He knows... He knows much much more but he cares for his skin only IMHO
Has he been questioned by UK authorities?
Not sure my only involvement was finding him for some people.
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One wonders why the Burmese took one phone but left another at the scene. And also left the sim there after taking it out of the phone. They seemed to have spent quite a while playing with phones after killing two people, i 'm surprised the two of them arnt seen ambling back to their room rather than just one of them running.
Of course it could all be made up.
They didn't that's just AliG's version which is incorrect and one that he/she cant prove. It didn't happen.
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And watch these to get some information. Last ones good even if u just watch the re-enactments
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Oh I think it's a misunderstanding. I'm asking if any me knows what time the photo below was posted.
Come on I cant walk you through the whole case do something for yourself.
that's the 22nd Sept
Mr McAnna posted information about the alleged threats on his Facebook page at around 4am on Monday and issued a desperate plea for help. "Thai mafia are trying to kill me. Please help me," he wrote.
He said he also spoke to Foreign Office officials in London over the telephone. After being taken from the supermarket by Thai police, Mr McAnna said he spent the rest of the night hiding from the men he feared were going to kill him in the jungle.
"I was scared s*******. I was really scared. So I kept moving every thirty minutes in case anybody had seen me. I would move from one part, to the next part in case there was anyone close that had seen me and could send someone."
Two Thai men were questioned about the incident but they were not arrested. The police chief said he would guarantee the Briton's security while he remained on Koh Tao.
After spending much of Monday in hiding, Mr McAnna travelled to the island's port with a group of British reporters at around 2.30pm. He left Koh Tao on a passenger ferry at 3.10pm.
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That was Miller's second phone, the one found on the beach, which is not the same as behind the room of the men on trial:
You are deliberately conflating things in order to create confusion.
No they are referring to the phone the B2 found on the beach.
Post the link that states they entered 2 phones as evidence. the phone I am speaking about is the Iphone 4S Black 16GB as entered into the evidence pack
Cite that the phone in question was an iPhone 4s?
I already did make and model is (Iphone 4S Black 16GB) this is the phone the police claim was davids phone
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Sean claimed he fled the store hid in the jungle then under a snooker table...lol...
What actually happened was the police came and took him away to protective custody. Mon was taken into the police station. Sean washed up and got his things before leaving the same afternoon with a handshake from the head Copper and a don't come back M8.
Evidence vanished into this air (well a flight to Italy) where it took residence in Milan. Reinvented as a sweet guitar player. Where he found work playing in a bar for a few euro's each week.
It was a well orchestrated attempt to loos e the only person who would shed light on what happened. However at the first sight of a way out Mr McAnna back peddled rapidly and tried to discount what he claimed had happened. But listen to his words. He knows... He knows much much more but he cares for his skin only IMHO
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a few days laterThe crime occurred somewhere between 2:30 am and 5:30 am. The police weren't called until 6:30 am, 30 minutes after the first ferry leaves the island. Anyone know what time Sean posted his photo of Mon on Facebook?
Could be me... But I think you might be mistaken. I mean the photo from the convenience store he was hiding in.
LOL...Really me wrong ..
I told my wife I am always right.DK you are way of the mark.
They had had the vigil a couple of days later at the beach... Sean had already given his interview to Jonathan Samuels from Sky on how David was the man he always wanted to be.. And then a few days late the Incident occurred. The Video of him fleeing in the taxi was published on the 22nd Sept a full 7 days after the murders.
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The crime occurred somewhere between 2:30 am and 5:30 am. The police weren't called until 6:30 am, 30 minutes after the first ferry leaves the island. Anyone know what time Sean posted his photo of Mon on Facebook?
a few days later
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The Problem is it wasn't Davids phone Goldbuggy.
In fact the Police confirmed in the trial proceedings they didn't check to see if it was David's phone.
So its ineligible as a piece of evidence and should now be discounted from this case. End off..
They phone you are referring to was the one found at the crime scene, the phone that GOLDBUGGY was talking about was the one found behind the room of the men on trial, which they admit they "found" on the day of the murders.
I am referring to the one that was entered as evidence by the prosecution into the evidence pack as Davids phone
That was Miller's second phone, the one found on the beach, which is not the same as behind the room of the men on trial:
You are deliberately conflating things in order to create confusion.
No they are referring to the phone the B2 found on the beach.
Post the link that states they entered 2 phones as evidence. the phone I am speaking about is the Iphone 4S Black 16GB as entered into the evidence pack
I told my wife I am always right.
Tourists among 19 killed by bomb at Bangkok's Erawan shrine
in Thailand News
Posted
Considering alot of Thai died I hardly think its aimed at foreigners. If they wanted to make a statement targeting foreigners they would have bombed nana or patpong etc. Has anyone forgotten the bombs before and the guy who blew his legs off. Was he from Iran?..