Thailand or Vietnam: Retirement choices

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

Well, when you talk of saving a few baht to make your own beans, even though you have enough money to buy canned beans, that is to have more money is it not? I mean you have a house with solar panels, an electric car, a family, you are clearly well off, yet you want to have more money. It is very normal.

That all belongs to my wife.

I own nothing but my pensions and savings in the UK.

When has being frugal ever been seen as a crime?

Edited August 23Aug 23 by BritManToo

16 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It will be big news. Some may not be able to afford the new amounts.

That'll be their problem.

22 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Well, when you talk of saving a few baht to make your own beans, even though you have enough money to buy canned beans, that is to have more money is it not? I mean you have a house with solar panels, an electric car, a family, you are clearly well off, yet you want to have more money. It is very normal.

So anyone not blowing their money is greedy?

Dude makes beans and built his own solar array. Would that time have been better spent at the bar or watching TV?

I make my own beans, because I like making beans and because canned beans are sh*t.

I also like having and saving money.

I do not think you understand greedy the way I understand greedy.

Does painting my home myself when I can afford to pay someone else make me greedy?

I would like to get better interest on my B800K at Krungsri, but I am not willing to circumvent the law to get it. That would make me greedy.

34 minutes ago, JerryM said:

That'll be their problem.

They can hire agents, like they do now.

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

They can hire agents, like they do now.

That assumes they can afford the agents.

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So anyone not blowing their money is greedy?

Dude makes beans and built his own solar array. Would that time have been better spent at the bar or watching TV?

I make my own beans, because I like making beans and because canned beans are sh*t.

I also like having and saving money.

I do not think you understand greedy the way I understand greedy.

Does painting my home myself when I can afford to pay someone else make me greedy?

I would like to get better interest on my B800K at Krungsri, but I am not willing to circumvent the law to get it. That would make me greedy.

Greed can take many forms. I would say excessive frugality is a form of greed too. If you don't need to skimp and save, and yet you do the only motivation can be to have more money. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this. But greed can be found in people with money and people without money. And it can take different forms.

Is a Thai woman asking for 20000 baht who then sends 5000 to her mother more greedy than a western family with an income of 3000 Euro who negotiate about a 100 baht discount with a cleaner?

Greed is wanting to have more than you need. Do you need to save 50 baht from making your own beans? Probably not. Is excessive frugality greed? I think a good case can be made.

In any event you need to factor in the baseline. A Thai woman who comes from poverty wanting 10000 baht may not be greed, because she or her mother really need that money. A European family bartering for 100 baht in the market may well be greed because they do not need those 100 baht. So excessive "common sense" frugality can be greed. The circumstances matter.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with making your own beans. Cooking is wonderful. However, if your motivation is to save 50 baht, when you already have sufficient affluence, then it may be greed. Overall obviously frugality is much better than greed, but excessive frugality can become greed if you catch my drift.

Edited August 23Aug 23 by Cameroni

53 minutes ago, JerryM said:

That'll be their problem.

Yes, but the more tourists that stop coming here, and the more expats that leave, of the ones who remain, we may lose some variety and choice, with also the possibility of price rises.

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Greed can take many forms. I would say excessive frugality is a form of greed too. If you don't need to skimp and save, and yet you do the only motivation can be to have more money. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this. But greed can be found in people with money and people without money. And it can take different forms.

Is a Thai woman asking for 20000 baht who then sends 5000 to her mother more greedy than a western family with an income of 3000 Euro who negotiate about a 100 baht discount with a cleaner?

Greed is wanting to have more than you need. Do you need to save 50 baht from making your own beans? Probably not. Is excessive frugality greed? I think a good case can be made.

Excessive frugality is a person not wanting to lose what they have, and holding onto it as long as possible.This can come from being poor as a child, and not wanting to hit that low, or just a smart idea, wanting as much money as possible in case something dire happens that costs a lot.

Wasting money isn't a smart idea no matter your position, yet some have money to burn, sometimes coming from hurting others in some way. Being stingy isn't a great thing, and being greedy at the cost of others isn't either. People sometimes gain wealth through unfair, dishonest, or harmful actions. This behavior creates serious social and economic problems for others.

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, but the more tourists that stop coming here,

No tourist come where I live now unless they are heading to one of the land borders.

11 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Greed can take many forms. I would say excessive frugality is a form of greed too. If you don't need to skimp and save, and yet you do the only motivation can be to have more money. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this. But greed can be found in people with money and people without money. And it can take different forms.

Is a Thai woman asking for 20000 baht who then sends 5000 to her mother more greedy than a western family with an income of 3000 Euro who negotiate about a 100 baht discount with a cleaner?

Greed is wanting to have more than you need. Do you need to save 50 baht from making your own beans? Probably not. Is excessive frugality greed? I think a good case can be made.

In any event you need to factor in the baseline. A Thai woman who comes from poverty wanting 10000 baht may not be greed, because she or her mother really need that money. A European family bartering for 100 baht in the market may well be greed because they do not need those 100 baht. So excessive "common sense" frugality can be greed. The circumstances matter.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with making your own beans. Cooking is wonderful. However, if your motivation is to save 50 baht, when you already have sufficient affluence, then it may be greed. Overall obviously frugality is much better than greed, but excessive frugality can become greed if you catch my drift.

So, everyone that wants more than they need is greedy?

If it is your position that everyone is greedy, fine. But if everyone is greedy, no one is greedy.

And you don't define "need". I don't need a car, but I have a car, per you, that makes me greedy.

I don't need air conditioning, but I have it, so I'm greedy?

I don't need a Viking 90, but I want one, so I'm greedy?

28 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

They can hire agents, like they do now.

If it's a small rise in the amounts, there will still be agents. If it's a significant rise in the amounts, as part of a broader policy to raise the financial standards of retirees here, it will be implemented along with a real ban on agents. They can clean out the country of those living here on meager means in a little over 12 months.

5 minutes ago, JerryM said:

No tourist come where I live now unless they are heading to one of the land borders.

Of course I was speaking in general terms, not about your specific situation.

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, but the more touristcts that stop coming here, and the more expats that leave, of the ones who remain, we may lose some variety and choice, with also the possibility of price rises.

Because in Thailand, when hotels are empty, they raise the rates, correct?

The money retirees bring to the table in Thailand it not significant in the scheme of things.

How man expat retirees do you think are in Thailand?

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Of course I was speaking in general terms, not about your specific situation.

Great. If there is a problem with agents having to raise their rates, it may have nothing to do with immigration raising the 800/65 numbers.

This is the sort of foresight Vietnam has, thinking next generation, and Thailand is competing against.

Article only 2 days old.

https://news.tuoitre.vn/english-may-become-compulsory-subject-from-grade-1-in-vietnam-103260821152959529.htm

"Vietnamese students could begin learning English as a compulsory subject from grade 1 under a draft regulation being reviewed by the Ministry of Education and Training."

Meanwhile, the Thai government continues to believe the tourists will just keep coming. No need to invest in any tourism infrastructure, or the tourism labor force.

Edited August 23Aug 23 by KhunHeineken

4 minutes ago, JerryM said:

Great. If there is a problem with agents having to raise their rates, it may have nothing to do with immigration raising the 800/65 numbers.

Or, it could have everything to do with immigration raising the 800k / 65k, and there may be no more agents as they will banned.

I have said the clock is ticking on agents. They will go the same way as the Thai company nominee crackdown.

Just too many foreigners circumventing the laws that it's got completely out of hand.

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Or, it could have everything to do with immigration raising the 800k / 65k,

Not if the increase in agent fees happened before the IMM rates were ever raised.

Edited August 23Aug 23 by JerryM

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The money retirees bring to the table in Thailand it not significant in the scheme of things.

Expat retirees buy property, cars, motorbikes, furniture, electrical appliances, white goods, even a new mobile phone etc.

They may not spend as much on hospitality, but their spend is significant on big ticket items.

16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How man expat retirees do you think are in Thailand?

Over 4 million foreigners, 200,000 western expats.

https://www.asialifestylemagazine.com/thailand-expat-population-2026-foreigners-living/

• Myanmar: ~2.5 million, many in construction and manufacturing.

• Cambodia + Laos: ~700,000 combined, clustered in agriculture and services.

• Chinese nationals: ~300,000, drawn by investment and retirement options.

• Western expats: ~200,000, across retirees, entrepreneurs, and remote professionals.

• Japanese, South Korean, Indian communities: ~50,000,80,000 each, tied to multinationals and trade hubs.

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Expat retirees buy property, cars, motorbikes, furniture, electrical appliances, white goods, even a new mobile phone etc.

They may not spend as much on hospitality, but their spend is significant on big ticket items.

Over 4 million foreigners, 200,000 western expats.

https://www.asialifestylemagazine.com/thailand-expat-population-2026-foreigners-living/

• Myanmar: ~2.5 million, many in construction and manufacturing.

• Cambodia + Laos: ~700,000 combined, clustered in agriculture and services.

• Chinese nationals: ~300,000, drawn by investment and retirement options.

• Western expats: ~200,000, across retirees, entrepreneurs, and remote professionals.

• Japanese, South Korean, Indian communities: ~50,000,80,000 each, tied to multinationals and trade hubs.

Did you not understand the question?

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you not understand the question?

Do you not understand the answer? 😂

38 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, everyone that wants more than they need is greedy?

If it is your position that everyone is greedy, fine. But if everyone is greedy, no one is greedy.

And you don't define "need". I don't need a car, but I have a car, per you, that makes me greedy.

I don't need air conditioning, but I have it, so I'm greedy?

I don't need a Viking 90, but I want one, so I'm greedy?

Of course almost everyone is greedy. Possession diminishes possession, once you have something it loses its lustre, you want something else. And you don't need to be a genius to figure out the evolutionary reason for greed, obviously it has served humanity well.

However, as I said, I think circumstances matter, but also intention matters. If you make beans to save 50 baht to give to your grandson, obviously that is not greed. If you save 50 baht just to have 50 baht more arguably that can be greedy. So the underlying intention matters.

Having a car is considered common place now, so I would not see having a car as greedy. Having 20 cars would be greedy. If you want them just to have more cars. If you get them to make a fleet of school transport possible obviously it is not greed. Unless you charge excessively for it. So there are many nuances and details that affect this.

Wanting air conditioning in Thailand is an understandable thing, again I would not see that as greedy. Wanting a yacht however is not common place, and therefore most people would view it as greedy. Not Larry Ellison though who has a much bigger yacht. So perspective, intention, circumstances all these things matter when one considers if something is greedy.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Of course almost everyone is greedy. Possession diminishes possession, once you have something it loses its lustre, you want something else. And you don't need to be a genius to figure out the evolutionary reason for greed, obviously it has served humanity well.

However, as I said, I think circumstances matter, but also intention matters. If you make beans to save 50 baht to give to your grandson, obviously that is not greed. If you save 50 baht just to have 50 baht more arguably that can be greedy. So the underlying intention matters.

Having a car is considered common place now, so I would not see having a car as greedy. Having 20 cars would be greedy. If you want them just to have more cars. If you get them to make a fleet of school transport possible obviously it is not greed. Unless you charge excessively for it. So there are many nuances and details that affect this.

Wanting air conditioning in Thailand is an understandable thing, again I would not see that as greedy. Wanting a yacht however is not common place, and therefore most people would view it as greedy. Not Larry Ellison though who has a much bigger yacht. So perspective, intention, circumstances all these things matter when one considers if something is greedy.

You said if you want more than you need, you're greedy.

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

You said if you want more than you need, you're greedy.

And I then clarified that it depends heavily on intent, circumstances and what is generally considered acceptable. Simply desiring abundance may not be inherently greedy, perhaps greed begins when the pursuit of "more" causes harm to yourself or others.

But there are carve-outs, exceptions. If you want something for someone else, it is not greedy.

The biggest tell-tale sign if someone is greedy is if that persons prioritizes things over people.

But it is hard to tell sometimes if someone is greedy or not. The 18 year old Filipina who keeps asking you for money may have nothing to eat, no money for shoes. Is her asking for basic necessities "greedy"? Probably not. However, she may just be asking because she is greedy, she may have enough and just want more. You need to know the circumstances.

Edited August 23Aug 23 by Cameroni

23 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you not understand the answer? 😂

I asked if you knew how many expat retirees were in Thailand.

You said: "Over 4 million foreigners, 200,000 western expats."

Which does not answer the question.

Why did you not just say no? At least that would be honest.

Just now, Yellowtail said:

I asked if you knew how many expat retirees were in Thailand.

You said: "Over 4 million foreigners, 200,000 western expats."

Which does not answer the question.

Why did you not just say no? At least that would be honest.

Not all of us are racists that only consider white western men as 'foreigners'.

If the question is really about 'foreigners' and not about 'white men' then the majority of foreigners in Thailand will be non-white Laos/Burmese/Cambodian/Malay workers with a lot of Chinese/Indians/Koreans/Japanese/Bangladesh scammers.

Edited August 23Aug 23 by BritManToo

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I asked if you knew how many expat retirees were in Thailand.

You said: "Over 4 million foreigners, 200,000 western expats."

Which does not answer the question.

Why did you not just say no? At least that would be honest.

I answered your question and posted a link.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Per your link, the number is significantly less than 200K, because the 200K included all ages and people working.

Don't people of all ages and working people require accommodation, and food?

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You could just search: "how many expat retirees in Thailand", but then you'd know how ridiculous you sound going on about how important expat retirees are to the Thai economy.

I did, and there's thousands and thousands, but according to you, they mean nothing to the property market, the car / bike market, and hospitality venues, not to mention the money sent to Issan every month.

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And you end your posts with "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." which you copied from others.

It's a well known and famous quote. If English was your first language you may have read it before.

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Weak

Troll.

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Not all of us are racists that only consider white western men as 'foreigners'.

If the question is really about 'foreigners' and not about 'white men' then the majority of foreigners in Thailand will be non-white Laos/Burmese/Cambodian/Malay workers with a lot of Chinese/Indians/Koreans/Japanese/Bangladesh scammers.

Well said.

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Don't people of all ages and working people require accommodation, and food?

I did, and there's thousands and thousands, but according to you, they mean nothing to the property market, the car / bike market, and hospitality venues, not to mention the money sent to Issan every month.

It's a well known and famous quote. If English was your first language you may have read it before.

Troll.

you are

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not all of us are racists that only consider white western men as 'foreigners'.

If the question is really about 'foreigners' and not about 'white men' then the majority of foreigners in Thailand will be non-white Laos/Burmese/Cambodian/Malay workers with a lot of Chinese/Indians/Koreans/Japanese/Bangladesh scammers.

The question was how many expat retirees, not how many foreigners.

Do a lot of Burmese retire here?