Thailand or Vietnam: Retirement choices

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The question was how many expat retirees, not how many foreigners.

Do a lot of Burmese retire here?

I thought you had to be still working in order to be an expat?

Whereas, retirees are not working at all, and living off their wealth/pensions.

I don't think you can be both at the same time!

But the definition on Google, suggests working or retiring.

So all the Burmese working here would be considered expats.

Looking up the difference between expatriate and migrent worker is equally confusing!

Edited August 23Aug 23 by BritManToo

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I thought you had to be still working in order to be an expat?

Whereas, retirees are not working at all, and living off their wealth/pensions.

I don't think you can be both at the same time!

You thought wrong.

There are different categories of expats.

Now you know.

Next

...

www.expatra.com/retirement-index/

Edited August 23Aug 23 by Jingthing

14 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

It will be interesting to see if it is a small increase, to keep up with the higher coss of living, or if it will be a significant increase, as part of a broader policy.

Is the cost of living relevant? You have to demonstrate you have the money to live here but there are restriction on spending it! It has been 800k for a very long time.....

20 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Basically, that 800k / 65k doesn't buy you what it used to be able to buy you, thus, these amount will eventually get to the point where they don't mean much when it comes to a foreigner being self sufficient with these amounts of money, so at some point, the Thai government will raise them.

What does it have to buy if left in the bank all year?

29 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Is the cost of living relevant? You have to demonstrate you have the money to live here but there are restriction on spending it! It has been 800k for a very long time.....

What does it have to buy if left in the bank all year?

You're right as far as the bank method.

That money is locked up for most of the year and half locked up for the rest of it.

For the income method, it could be seen as a cost of living correlation.

In realist, retirement visa financial requirements quite often don't track with actual costs.

For example in Panama, it's 1000 USD a month but the vast majority of retired expats there spend much more. Chile is another example where the requirement is way under the need.

In Malaysia, the requirements are much higher than the actual typical needs.

So governments can decide they want to track those two things together, or not. Don't assume they're always tracked.

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're right as far as the bank method.

That money is locked up for most of the year and half locked up for the rest of it.

For the income method, it could be seen as a cost of living correlation.

In realist, retirement visa financial requirements quite often don't track with actual costs.

For example in Panama, it's 1000 USD a month but the vast majority of retired expats there spend much more. Chile is another example where the requirement is way under the need.

In Malaysia, the requirements are much higher than the actual typical needs.

So governments can decide they want to track those two things together, or not. Don't assume they're always tracked.

I think the 800k / 65k is pretty spot on.

Since we're bought in, house, car / EV & solar, we actually bank half + of funds brought in. Spend average 30-40k a month, depending on any one off cost.

If we had rent / 20k, petrol / 5k & electric / 5k costs, (+30k), then that 65k a month would be spot on. And there is 2 of us + dog, we eat good (in home mostly), but O&A quite a bit, like now, doing one of our southern loops.

Nobody should have a problem living on 800k in TH ... IMHO

You can do it on less, but will still need to show 800k / 65k, or do the agent thingy.

OR you can spend much more a month ... UP2U

Edited August 24Aug 24 by KhunLA

How this is a fair comparison when one country does not have a retirement visa? I can only stay in Vietnam 90 days. As for LOS I can pursue several types of visa's to stay for a year.

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I think the 800k / 65k is pretty spot on.

Since we're bought in, house, car / EV & solar, we actually bank half + of funds brought in. Spend average 30-40k a month, depending on any one off cost.

If we had rent, petrol & electric costs, then that 65k a month would be spot on. And there is 2 of us + dog, we eat good (in home mostly), but O&A quite a bit, like now, doing one of our southern loops.

Nobody should have a problem living on 800k in TH ... IMHO

You can do it on less, but will still need to show 800k / 65k, or do the agent thingy.

OR you can spend much more a month ... UP2U

Obviously there is a massive range.

Retired expats could live in Thailand for 30K a month up to infinity.

I gave the example of Panama under pricing their requirement because 1000 USD a month isn't really even in the range there.

9 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

How this is a fair comparison when one country does not have a retirement visa? I can only stay in Vietnam 90 days. As for LOS I can pursue several types of visa's to stay for a year.

Vietnam has marriage visa.

If you are married, I guess no more need for 90 day visa runs.

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously there is a massive range.

Retired expats could live in Thailand for 30K a month up to infinity.

I gave the example of Panama under pricing their requirement because 1000 USD a month isn't really even in the range there.

Never been and don't know anyone in Panama. Don't take internet numbers too seriously. Look what they state average income and housing prices are in the USA. Far from accurate IMHO, same with TH.

I could rent a townhouse in TH for < 5k a month, and it would be fine. I don't need a car or MB, since living in a '15 minute city', nor going O&A at additional cost per day of ~1k+ on average for hotel.

Others will spend 1000 baht on alcohol & 5k on P4P a couple times a week. That's a wide range of costs between what ours could be, and what they are, and what others spend, or don't.

48 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Vietnam has marriage visa.

If you are married, I guess no more need for 90 day visa runs.

Marriage, not me. I would rather give Thailand Privilege 650,000 Baht for a 5 year tourist visa.

7 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Marriage, not me. I would rather give Thailand Privilege 650,000 Baht for a 5 year tourist visa.

You'd rather jump through visa hoops than get married?

Just now, save the frogs said:

You'd rather jump through visa hoops than get married?

Might beat putting your head in a noose.

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

You'd rather jump through visa hoops than get married?

Yes. Some would say being married is like jumping through hoops everyday. Then you have the wife's family(this is problematic in many Asian countries). I am saying this even though I am an Asian American. I have seen some of the nonsense Asian in laws commit first hand.

5 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Yes. Some would say being married is like jumping through hoops everyday. Then you have the wife's family(this is problematic in many Asian countries). I am saying this even though I am an Asian American. I have seen some of the nonsense Asian in laws commit first hand.

I never have any of those problems.

I just ignore the in-laws.

11 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Then you have the wife's family(this is problematic in many Asian countries)

We get along fine. Maybe one reason is none of them speak English.

My wife speaks reasonable English. If I say something in English and she says 'I don't understand', I explain it to her in Thai.

Edited August 24Aug 24 by JerryM

My wife's family is great for the most part.

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I never have any of those problems.

I just ignore the in-laws.

#1 You have been lucky.

#2 You have to live a far away from them. Some of the girls I have met want to live close to family

Just now, sqwakvfr said:

#1 You have been lucky.

#2 You have to live a far away from them. Some of the girls I have met want to live close to family

Mine moved her mom (my age) near us last year, I don't like her and she knows I don't like her.

Wife is out at the local hospital with her right now.

But as long as she doesn't visit I have no problem.

At one point I did need to tell her, I won't live in a house with your mom.

Did get the usual complaints, but pointed out mom is broke and I'm not.

Money No.1

Edited August 24Aug 24 by BritManToo

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Never been and don't know anyone in Panama. Don't take internet numbers too seriously. Look what they state average income and housing prices are in the USA. Far from accurate IMHO, same with TH.

I could rent a townhouse in TH for < 5k a month, and it would be fine. I don't need a car or MB, since living in a '15 minute city', nor going O&A at additional cost per day of ~1k+ on average for hotel.

Others will spend 1000 baht on alcohol & 5k on P4P a couple times a week. That's a wide range of costs between what ours could be, and what they are, and what others spend, or don't.

Yes of course there is a wide range that retired expats actually spend.

All I'm saying is that a nation's retirement visa financial requirements don'ttell you anything about what you personally will need or want to spend

Edited August 24Aug 24 by Jingthing

42 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

#1 You have been lucky.

Why do you say that? How many married guys do you actually know here?

42 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

#2 You have to live a far away from them. Some of the girls I have met want to live close to family

I lived a couple shophouses down from my wife's family for five years, and it was great.

Do you really want to marry a woman the does not love their family?

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

1) Have spoken to a number of western guys and their complaints about the wife's family were nonstop.

So that is zero?

Guys hanging around in bars are not happily married.

I'd guess that the guys on this site that are happily married with little or no in-law issues outnumber the unhappily married guys complaining about their in-laws ten to one.

It seems to me that at least 90% of the people moaning about Thai in-laws, are not married.

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

2) Love in this part of the world has a different meaning. A woman can love her family. But does this also mean to truly love her family the foreign husband must provide financial support in order to fulfill this love?

No

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

3) Grew up in a messed up Asian American family and the elders (who were mostly foolish) put $$$ as the most important factor in any kind of relationship. In essence the more money one has the more value and importance one has. I see similarities here in LOS. Every relative (notice I don't use the term "family") saw me as worthless because I did not pursue $$ as my primary goal in life. This has been my experience with the "Asian" perspective on life and love. I wanted to see what theThai perspective was and so far it has been similar to what I experienced with my Asian relatives.

I grew up in a great American-American family, and that was not my experience.

If any one of our family members were in need, anyone in the family with the means would help.

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

4) It is good that your relationship with the Thai family has been great but this does not mean it is the same for others Everyone's life experience is different. Some are great, some are bad and some are awful.

Some are great, some are good, some are okay, some are bad, some are awful.

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Is the cost of living relevant? You have to demonstrate you have the money to live here but there are restriction on spending it! It has been 800k for a very long time.....

The magic number of 800,000 baht must mean something to the Thai's. Either they believe it's enough to live on, or enough to pay a hospital bill after a serious accident or serious illness.

That 800,000 baht doesn't buy as much as what it used to, whether that be food and groceries, rent, bills, or doctors.

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

What does it have to buy if left in the bank all year?

As above, they set the amount at 800,000 baht because that figure must represent something to the Thai government, whether it's used, or not.

It simply can't stay at 800k / 65k forever. When they raise the amounts, it's going to be interesting to see if it's a small or significant rise.

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The magic number of 800,000 baht must mean something to the Thai's. Either they believe it's enough to live on, or enough to pay a hospital bill after a serious accident or serious illness.

That 800,000 baht doesn't buy as much as what it used to, whether that be food and groceries, rent, bills, or doctors.

As above, they set the amount at 800,000 baht because that figure must represent something to the Thai government, whether it's used, or not.

It simply can't stay at 800k / 65k forever. When they raise the amounts, it's going to be interesting to see if it's a small or significant rise.

I assume it will go up at some point, as everything does.

The account I use for my marriage visa has about B1M in it. In the event I have a falling out with the wife, I'm set for the retirement visa. In the event the monetary requirement goes up, I'm covered. In the event I need cash in an emergency, I'm covered.

Most of the expats I come in contact with are not living hand to mouth and should have no difficulty in the event of an increase. I would guess more US people would move to the money in bank method, as a B100K a month is more than most people's Social Security.

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The magic number of 800,000 baht must mean something to the Thai's. Either they believe it's enough to live on, or enough to pay a hospital bill after a serious accident or serious illness.

That 800,000 baht doesn't buy as much as what it used to, whether that be food and groceries, rent, bills, or doctors.

As above, they set the amount at 800,000 baht because that figure must represent something to the Thai government, whether it's used, or not.

It simply can't stay at 800k / 65k forever. When they raise the amounts, it's going to be interesting to see if it's a small or significant rise.

I'm sure i was told a few years back that the number was set to match $2,000 pm.

Its still around that.

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I assume it will go up at some point, as everything does.

Yes, and it will be interesting to see by how much, possibly indicating the rise to be part of a broader policy to raise the financial capacity of foreign retirees here.

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The account I use for my marriage visa has about B1M in it. In the event I have a falling out with the wife, I'm set for the retirement visa. In the event the monetary requirement goes up, I'm covered. In the event I need cash in an emergency, I'm covered.

If it's a small increase, yes, you are covered, but it might be 1.2 million baht, for example.

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Most of the expats I come in contact with are not living hand to mouth and should have no difficulty in the event of an increase. I would guess more US people would move to the money in bank method, as a B100K a month is more than most people's Social Security.

There are a lot of retirees, from all around the world, living off a government aged pension. They live month to month.

The Australian aged pension isn't even 65k a month.

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So that is zero?

Guys hanging around in bars are not happily married.

I'd guess that the guys on this site that are happily married with little or no in-law issues outnumber the unhappily married guys complaining about their in-laws ten to one.

It seems to me that at least 90% of the people moaning about Thai in-laws, are not married.

No

I grew up in a great American-American family, and that was not my experience.

If any one of our family members were in need, anyone in the family with the means would help.

Some are great, some are good, some are okay, some are bad, some are awful.

1) I do not go to bars. I meet and speak to people in many places: Coffee places, gyms etc.

2) If $$$ has never been factor in your relationship then you are very lucky

3) My relatives (to me family are people who care about me and I care about them). Have never financially helped me. But they have demanded (never actually asked) for money many times. I have plenty of family who am I not connected through blood or DNA. I still have family I connected while I was in the Army many decades ago. These people are my true family.

4). Forrest Gump said "life is like a box of chocolates, you never what you are going to get". The lucky people are the ones whose family are relatives.

14 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

I'm sure i was told a few years back that the number was set to match $2,000 pm.

Its still around that.

Interesting.

So, they may have pegged it to the USD. I had not considered that.

Here's a chart of the purchasing power of the US Dollar over the last 50 years, compared to gold. The gold data is not relevant, but it shows the decline of the dollar.

https://en.macromicro.me/charts/141084/us-purchasing-power-of-the-us-dollar-vs-gold

59 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

1) I do not go to bars. I meet and speak to people in many places: Coffee places, gyms etc.

You meet people in gyms, and they start talking about their wives' in-laws? What, like in the shower?

59 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

2) If $$$ has never been factor in your relationship then you are very lucky

I never said that, but yes, I am lucky. "I'd rather be lucky than good", as they say.

59 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

3) My relatives (to me family are people who care about me and I care about them). Have never financially helped me. But they have demanded (never actually asked) for money many times. I have plenty of family who am I not connected through blood or DNA. I still have family I connected while I was in the Army many decades ago. These people are my true family.

Did you ever need and ask for financial help from your relatives?

59 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

4). Forrest Gump said "life is like a box of chocolates, you never what you are going to get". The lucky people are the ones whose family are relatives.

Quit feeling sorry for yourself, you are very lucky.

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

The magic number of 800,000 baht must mean something to the Thai's. Either they believe it's enough to live on, or enough to pay a hospital bill after a serious accident or serious illness.

That 800,000 baht doesn't buy as much as what it used to, whether that be food and groceries, rent, bills, or doctors.

As above, they set the amount at 800,000 baht because that figure must represent something to the Thai government, whether it's used, or not.

It simply can't stay at 800k / 65k forever. When they raise the amounts, it's going to be interesting to see if it's a small or significant rise.

With the bank method, if that's what the Thai government thinks people will use for emergencies, if they do, that makers their status instantly illegal.

Whether bank method or not people should have a separate liquid emergency fund. How much? It would be a can of worms to be specific.