Funding battle looms as Texas sees Harvey damage at up to $180 billion

[webfact]

Funding battle looms as Texas sees Harvey damage at up to $180 billion

By Marianna Parraga and Gary McWilliams

 

U.S. President Donald Trump helps volunteers hand out meals during a visit with flood survivors of Hurricane Harvey at a relief center in Houston, Texas, U.S., September 2, 2017. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque

 

HOUSTON (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin on Sunday challenged Congress to raise the government's debt limit in order to free up relief spending for Hurricane Harvey, a disaster that the governor of Texas said had caused up to $180 billion (£139.05 billion) in damage.

 

Harvey, which came ashore on Aug. 25 as the most powerful hurricane to hit Texas in more than 50 years, has killed an estimated 50 people, displaced more than 1 million and damaged some 200,000 homes in a path of destruction stretching for more than 300 miles (480 km).

 

As the city of Houston and the region's critical energy infrastructure began to recover nine days after the storm hit, the debate over how to pay for the disaster played out in Washington.

 

Texas Governor Greg Abbott estimated damage at $150 billion to $180 billion, calling it more costly than Hurricanes Katrina or Sandy, which devastated New Orleans in 2005 and New York in 2012.

 

The administration of President Donald Trump has asked Congress for an initial $7.85 billion for recovery efforts, a fraction of what will eventually be needed.

 

Even that amount could be delayed unless Congress quickly increases the government's debt ceiling, Mnuchin said, as the United States is on track to hit its mandated borrowing limit by the end of the month unless Congress increases it.

 

"Without raising the debt limit, I am not comfortable that we will get money to Texas this month to rebuild," Mnuchin told Fox News.

 

Republican lawmakers, who control both houses of Congress, have traditionally resisted raising the debt ceiling, but linking the issue to Harvey aid could force their hand with people suffering and large areas of the fourth-largest U.S. city under water.

 

Beyond the immediate funding, any massive aid package faces budget pressures at a time when Trump is advocating for tax reform or tax cuts, leading some on Capitol Hill to suggest aid may be released in a series of appropriations.

 

Katrina set the record by costing U.S. taxpayers more than $110 billion. In advocating for funds to help rebuild his state, Abbott said damage from Harvey would exceed that.

 

95 PERCENT DRY

 

Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner said the city expected most public services and businesses to be restored by Tuesday, the first day after Monday's Labor Day holiday.

 

"Over 95 percent of the city is now dry. And I'm encouraging people to get up and let's get going," Turner told NBC News.

 

Even so, Houston mandated the evacuation of thousands of people on the western side of town on Sunday to accommodate the release of water from two reservoirs that otherwise might sustain damage. The storm stalled over Houston, dumping more than 50 inches (1.3 m) on the region.

 

Houston cut off power to homes on Sunday to encourage evacuations. The area was closed off on Sunday and military vehicles were stationed on the periphery to take people out.

 

Karen Waltmon, 58, who was returning to her home in one of the neighbourhoods, said she wondered if parts of the city would have to be razed.

 

"I feel a lot of Houston is drying out, and I don’t want them to forget about us,” she said.

 

About 37,000 refugees stayed overnight in 270 shelters in Texas plus another 2,000 in seven Louisiana shelters, the highest number reported by the American Red Cross.

 

Some 84,700 homes and businesses were without power on Sunday, down from a peak of around 300,000, according to the region's major electric companies.

 

In Crosby, Texas, an Arkema <AKE.PA> chemical plant that ran out of electricity needed to keep volatile organic peroxide refrigerated will burn the remaining containers as a "proactive measure," company and Harris County fire officials said in a statement.

 

Officials last week evacuated residents and set up a 1.5-mile (2.4-km) perimeter around the area.

 

Energy disruptions pushed up gasoline futures to a two-year high ahead of the holiday weekend, but major refineries started to come back online on Friday.

 

Colonial Pipeline, the biggest U.S. fuel system, expects to reopen a Texas segment of its network on Monday, when it will resume transporting distillates from Houston to Hebert, Texas, the company said on Sunday, adding that it would be ready to start moving gasoline on Tuesday.

 

Those repairs would restore to normal Colonial's entire pipeline from Houston to Linden, New Jersey, relieving shortages between Texas and the U.S. Northeast.

 

(For a graphic on Hurricane cost, click http://tmsnrt.rs/2wuvvIi)

 

 

(For a graphic on Storms in the North Atlantic, click http://tmsnrt.rs/2wwerEh)

 

(Reporting by Marianna Parraga and Gary McWilliams in Houston and Steve Holland in Washington; Writing by Daniel Trotta; Editing by Phil Berlowitz and Andrew Hay)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-09-04

[boomerangutang]

Several thoughts come to mind:  

>>>  Bad stuff happens.  People chose to reside in a Hurricane Alley, whether wittingly or not.  Should the Feds, using taxpayer money, have to pay for everyone to rebuild?  I don't think so.

 

>>>  When an individual's house gets flooded in an isolated scenario, the Feds don't step in to give him big money.  Yet, when it's many houses, the Feds step in.  I saw the same difference, in California, when a house burned down, ...in contrast to when many houses burned down.  A destroyed house is a destroyed house.  Is it more grave when it's individually destroyed compared to collectively destroyed?

 

>>>  Those with insurance, planned ahead.  

 

 

[mikebike]

38 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Several thoughts come to mind:  

>>>  Bad stuff happens.  People chose to reside in a Hurricane Alley, whether wittingly or not.  Should the Feds, using taxpayer money, have to pay for everyone to rebuild?  I don't think so.

 

>>>  When an individual's house gets flooded in an isolated scenario, the Feds don't step in to give him big money.  Yet, when it's many houses, the Feds step in.  I saw the same difference, in California, when a house burned down, ...in contrast to when many houses burned down.  A destroyed house is a destroyed house.  Is it more grave when it's individually destroyed compared to collectively destroyed?

 

>>>  Those with insurance, planned ahead.  

 

 

Funded rebuilding occurs for economic reasons, not out of any sense of altruism. The lion's share of "aid" goes to businesses and corporations not individuals.

Edited September 4, 2017 by mikebike
spelling

[GinBoy2]

I'm curious why the junior Senator from Texas has been so quiet on the topic

 

He seemed rather vocal in his opposition to funding relief for NY & NJ after hurricane Sandy!

[boomerangutang]

incredible before-and-after satellite photos....

 

npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/01/547688960/before-and-after-dramatic-satellite-photos-show-texas-towns-underwater

[boomerangutang]

25 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I'm curious why the junior Senator from Texas has been so quiet on the topic.

He seemed rather vocal in his opposition to funding relief for NY & NJ after hurricane Sandy!

If Republican Congresspeople didn't speak with forked tongues, they wouldn't be Republican.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

Several thoughts come to mind:  

>>>  Bad stuff happens.  People chose to reside in a Hurricane Alley, whether wittingly or not.  Should the Feds, using taxpayer money, have to pay for everyone to rebuild?  I don't think so.

 

>>>  When an individual's house gets flooded in an isolated scenario, the Feds don't step in to give him big money.  Yet, when it's many houses, the Feds step in.  I saw the same difference, in California, when a house burned down, ...in contrast to when many houses burned down.  A destroyed house is a destroyed house.  Is it more grave when it's individually destroyed compared to collectively destroyed?

 

>>>  Those with insurance, planned ahead.  

 

 

Actually, most flood insurance comes from the federal government. I believe that the program is about 24 billion dollars in the red. Obama had in place some regulations that would require developers to build to a higher standard in flood zones. Developers hated that proposed regulation. Trump nixed it. He also wanted to slash the FEMA budget. Imagine how much worse this disaster would have been if the hurricane had occurred next year with those cuts having taken effect.

[zydeco]

This will happen again. And the response will be to let people rebuild in a swampy bowl, which is almost 12 ft. below sea level in many instances. 

[pegman]

13 hours ago, zydeco said:

This will happen again. And the response will be to let people rebuild in a swampy bowl, which is almost 12 ft. below sea level in many instances. 

It is happening now with Irma barreling towards the USA. Who pays for the home rebuilding when there was no insurance? 

[IAMHERE]

"...accommodate the release of water from two reservoirs that otherwise might sustain damage" 

 

This is the part that bothers me. Didn't the reservoir management realize a hurricane was coming there direction? That water should have been dumped as soon as the first indication that it could go to Houston. A week before it hit they had projected paths leading to Texas coast.

[boomerangutang]

18 hours ago, zydeco said:

This will happen again. And the response will be to let people rebuild in a swampy bowl, which is almost 12 ft. below sea level in many instances. 

Import a few hundred Thai construction workers.  They know how to build piers and posts - to support buildings - and set their foundations up several feet higher.  Roads would still be at ground level, though.  

 

Best would be to make less babies, ww.   Next best would be to not habitate places which are prone to flooding.  Bangkokians would do well to learn that also, but that's veering off-topic.

[ilostmypassword]

23 hours ago, zydeco said:

This will happen again. And the response will be to let people rebuild in a swampy bowl, which is almost 12 ft. below sea level in many instances. 

And the people who will be cheering most loudly for this uncontrolled development will be Team Trump.

[zydeco]

50 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And the people who will be cheering most loudly for this uncontrolled development will be Team Trump.

Actually, people should be allowed to build wherever they want.  They should not push the costs of the bad decisions on others via the government or private insurance. In essence, Houston, a city which has decided not to have any zoning regulations (so presumably a chlorine factory can be built right beside a residential neighborhood), should not make others pay for their folly.

[RobFord]

This will happen again. And the response will be to let people rebuild in a swampy bowl, which is almost 12 ft. below sea level in many instances. 

That will be trumps response.

"The rule, signed by former President Barack Obama in 2015, had not yet come into effect but aimed to make infrastructure more resilient to the effects of climate change, such as rising sea levels and flooding."

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-signed-away-obamas-flood-risk-rules-weeks-hurricane-harvey-hit-655712


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 9/4/2017 at 11:21 AM, boomerangutang said:

If Republican Congresspeople didn't speak with forked tongues, they wouldn't be Republican.

 

The same with Texas Gov. Abbott, who's a staunch member of the hard-core Republican downsize the federal government, people should be responsible for themselves, health care isn't a right brigade.

 

I never want to see any people suffer. But in this case, part of me wants to say, OK Gov. Abbott, let's use the Harvey aftermath as a case to actually implement your and the other hard-core Republicans' political philosophy -- no federal relief aid, no subsidies, no rebuilding assistance. Everyone there is Texas is on their own, and should be responsible for themselves. After all, they chose to live and do business there. No one forced them.... the Republicans would normally say.

 

But somehow, it seems the good governor has decided to temporarily suspend his anti-federal government, citizens responsible for themselves philosophy in this case.  Pathetic!!!!

 

Quote

 

On January 8, 2016, Abbott called for a national constitutional convention to address what he sees as abuses by justices of the United States Supreme Court in "abandoning the Constitution."^[80] Abbott proposed passing nine new amendments to the Constitution, intended to limit the power of the federal government and expand states rights.^[81] Speaking to the Texas Public Policy Foundation, Abbott said, "We the people have to take the lead to restore the rule of law in the United States."^[82]
 

In 2016 Abbott spoke to the Texas Public Policy Foundation, calling for a Convention of States to amend the U.S. Constitution. In his speech, he released a plan which includes 9 proposed amendments to "unravel the federal government's decades-long power grab “to impose fiscal restraints on the federal government and limit the federal government’s power and jurisdiction.”^[83]

 

 

And previously as state Attorney General:

 

Quote

 

Abbott has spoken out against concerns such as voter fraud, the right to bear arms, and President Barack Obama's health care reform. When asked what his job entails, Abbott says: "I go into the office in the morning, I sue Barack Obama, and then I go home."^[15]Abbott has filed suit against various U.S. agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency, the Department of Health and Human Services (including challenges to Obamacare), and the Department of Education, among many others.^[1]
 

The Dallas Morning News compared Abbott to Scott Pruitt, noting that both Attorneys General had repeatedly sued the federal government's environmental regulations.^[16] The Houston Chronicle noted that Abbott "lead the charge against Obama-era climate regulations."^[17]
 

Abbott has said that the state must not release Tier II Chemical Inventory Reports for security reasons, but that Texans "can ask every facility whether or not they have chemicals or not".^[18]Koch Industries has denied that their contributions to Abbott's campaign had anything to do with his ruling against releasing the safety information.^[19]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Abbott

Edited September 5, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

Actually, people should be allowed to build wherever they want.  They should not push the costs of the bad decisions on others via the government or private insurance. In essence, Houston, a city which has decided not to have any zoning regulations (so presumably a chlorine factory can be built right beside a residential neighborhood), should not make others pay for their folly.

Tell that to Ted Cruz, John Cornyn, and the rest of the Republican delegation who claim to hate big government.

And even if that werent' the case, this remark is still remarkably foolish. It's like saying someone who has a factory upstream has the right to pollute a river no matter what the consequences are to people elsewhere. Overdevelopment blocks runoff and makes flooding more likely for to affect others.

Edited September 5, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[GinBoy2]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The same with Texas Gov. Abbott, who's a staunch member of the hard-core Republican downsize the federal government, people should be responsible for themselves, health care isn't a right brigade.

 

I never want to see any people suffer. But in this case, part of me wants to say, OK Gov. Abbott, let's use the Harvey aftermath as a case to actually implement your and the other hard-core Republicans' political philosophy -- no federal relief aid, no subsidies, no rebuilding assistance. Everyone there is Texas is on their own, and should be responsible for themselves. After all, they chose to live and do business there. No one forced them.... the Republicans would normally say.

 

But somehow, it seems the good governor has decided to temporarily suspend his anti-federal government, citizens responsible for themselves philosophy in this case.  Pathetic!!!!

 

It's kind of fascinating that people vote for extreme policies, until of course it affects them. Funny how they views on self sufficiency and hatred of federal relief (or as they would say welfare)  seem to evaporate when they themselves are affected

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Ohh...and of course, NO RAISING THE FEDERAL DEBT LIMIT to enable Houston disaster relief.

 

Let the federal government default on its obligations, and shutter those worthless federal agencies like FEMA, the EPA, the National Guard, Army Corps of Engineers, the Small Business Administration, Housing and Urban Development and all the other useless, taxpayer dollars wasting agencies.

 

They'd better not have any staff working in Texas. We certainly don't want the feds usurping states' rights. I hope the good governor sues their as*es off if they come anywhere near his state.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Stargeezr]

With Houston being such a flat area, what will happen for the re build? Will millions of tons of dirt and rock be hauled in and build the buildings higher off the ground? Will there be some dykes and such like a sea wall be built along the coast?  Just wondering?

Geezer

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

With Houston being such a flat area, what will happen for the re build? Will millions of tons of dirt and rock be hauled in and build the buildings higher off the ground? Will there be some dykes and such like a sea wall be built along the coast?  Just wondering?

Geezer

Maybe Trump should be pressuring Congress to build seawalls rather than his idiotic border wall.  Guarantee a lot more bang for the buck in seawalls!

[boomerangutang]

23 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

With Houston being such a flat area, what will happen for the re build? Will millions of tons of dirt and rock be hauled in and build the buildings higher off the ground? Will there be some dykes and such like a sea wall be built along the coast?  Just wondering?

 

22 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Maybe Trump should be pressuring Congress to build seawalls rather than his idiotic border wall.  Guarantee a lot more bang for the buck in seawalls!

Sea walls may do some good, but there's still got to be some provision for where water goes - whether it's pumped out, or gravity assisted.  Whenever you wall something out, you wall things in.  The opposite is true.  Bangkok has the same issue:  City fathers have proposed a gargantuan berm all around Bkk.  But then what happens with the water within the berm?  They say, no problem, we'll pump it out.  What happens when the power systems for the pumps get flooded and/or the pumps malfunction?  And what about rivers flowing through such cities.... are they going to become walled rivers, as Bkk's already is - and every so often the walls have to be heightened another meter, and another meter.... and so on.

 

Bottom line (pun intended)  PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BUILD IN FLOOD-PRONE REGIONS.  If we were ducks or 'gators, ok, then it's a different dynamic.