is UK making it harder to get your spouse back?

[pumpjack]

i had a battle with home office 7 yrs ago about my wife being allowed into UK  

then a year later about my 2 step sons being allowed to join their mum in UK

much to a massive cost & major headache to me.

even though she was working when she got here,     i was working making good money, i bought a new house etc etc  they still refused her sons , but in the end after 2 high court cases the judge ruled that UKBA were wrong to refuse her sons to join us in UK.

 

now im hearing from various farang that even though they are fully legal with funds to burn, own houses , businesses & sufficient money ,    the UK home office are refusing their thai spouse to join them .

then just today a guy who married a girl 2 years ago in nicaragua has told me that she was refused .

 

does anyone else feel that immigration / home office are tightening the screws ?   since these last few years. 

 

PS / RANT -  if your a refugee you will be awarded all the benefits and more !

 

seems the legit guy who married his spouse in another country perfectly legal is being screwed by uk immigration. 

 

your views on this ? 

 

signed 

ANGRY

Edited September 7, 2017 by pumpjack

[rasg]

4 hours ago, pumpjack said:

does anyone else feel that immigration / home office are tightening the screws ?   since these last few years. 

Probably not. If you fulfill the financial requirement, your wife can pass the English test and get a TB certificate, (if it's required), my, now wife, had no problem getting a settlement visa last year for us to get married here and then she successfully applied for Further leave to remain. Indefinite leave to remain is a while away. It's all pretty expensive and keeps going up each year though.

 

Yes. There are hoops to jump through but it wasn’t difficult.

[theoldgit]

I'm inclined to agree with rasg, whilst there are indeed hurdles to jump, and the bar is continuously being raised, the requirements are in the various Immigration Acts and if they're met in full a visa will be issued, applicants just have to ensure that the requirements are met.

 

You have quoted a couple of refusals but give no details as to why they were refused, a reason would have been given, without the reasons the claims are meaningless.

 

Please don't let's go down the refugees get benefits and more route, genuine refugees do get some help, and I'm glad they do, but don't for one moment think that once they set foot on UK they then live a life of luxury, that simply isn't the case.

 

As to whether HMG is tightening the screws, again probably not, but the great British public want the Government to reduce the numbers of Immigrants into the UK and, like it or not, the applicants you refer to are soft targets, and they have a history of going for these soft targets.

 

 

[Richard W]

19 hours ago, theoldgit said:

... the requirements are in the various Immigration Acts...

No, they're in the Immigration Rules, most significantly Appendices FM and FM-SE.

[theoldgit]

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 5:57 AM, Richard W said:

No, they're in the Immigration Rules, most significantly Appendices FM and FM-SE.

Thank you for nit picking, most of the rules are based on the 1971 Immigration Act and the various amendments, though I'm sure the clarification you have made will be of immense help to prospective applicants.

[Richard W]

Matters like the need for a visa prior to arrival for settlement, exclusion of stepchildren, and the financial requirement are in the Immigration Rules.  The Immigration Acts deal with matters like confiscating the family car if one forgets to extend leave in time (OK, only if the immigrant family member drives it), the legal framework,  appeals (as opposed to judicial reviews), and enforcement procedures (including preventing someone with a legal right to enter from flying to the UK).

 

The point is that parliament rarely actually votes for the requirements, though it is within its power to do so, or, more precisely, to reject a new set of Immigration Rules.

[jinners]

On 9/8/2017 at 5:19 AM, rasg said:

Probably not. If you fulfill the financial requirement, your wife can pass the English test and get a TB certificate, (if it's required), my, now wife, had no problem getting a settlement visa last year for us to get married here and then she successfully applied for Further leave to remain. Indefinite leave to remain is a while away. It's all pretty expensive and keeps going up each year though.

 

Yes. There are hoops to jump through but it wasn’t difficult.

Lucky guy, I met full criteria but was refused. Appealed and won (more expense) with the assistance of local MP. They are bastards and work to rules that have a great amount of slippage and no constant to report to, it seems a free for all and relies a lot of the person processing, latest advice from HO and the weather probably. Horrible scenario. My spouse visa is about to expire. We don't live permanently in UK so probably won't bother renewing. Full sympathies for all those having to put up with this crap.

[jinners]

On 9/8/2017 at 10:08 AM, theoldgit said:

I'm inclined to agree with rasg, whilst there are indeed hurdles to jump, and the bar is continuously being raised, the requirements are in the various Immigration Acts and if they're met in full a visa will be issued, applicants just have to ensure that the requirements are met.

 

You have quoted a couple of refusals but give no details as to why they were refused, a reason would have been given, without the reasons the claims are meaningless.

 

Please don't let's go down the refugees get benefits and more route, genuine refugees do get some help, and I'm glad they do, but don't for one moment think that once they set foot on UK they then live a life of luxury, that simply isn't the case.

 

As to whether HMG is tightening the screws, again probably not, but the great British public want the Government to reduce the numbers of Immigrants into the UK and, like it or not, the applicants you refer to are soft targets, and they have a history of going for these soft targets.

 

 

Incorrect, they are not per my reply below and have the ability to deny even when everything is complete and satisfactory with of course no need to respond. I'm just lucky my appeal worked so my wife has met my aging mum and other family members.

There's no doubt the government takes the line of least resistance when deciding these applications as it's much more profitable and simple to deal with than the illegals/legals/immigrants with no/little paperwork.

As per drivers, tax payers in general and all other lawful individuals, it's a easy target, the immigration process is there to frustrate and make money not assist citizens in a time of need dealing with something thats really quite stressful and expensive. Terrible system.

[paul545]

UK immigration are a law unto themselves. 

 

If you are a member of the European community working in the UK and marry a Thai she doesn't even need a visa to get into the UK just a right of entry. I can't get my wife a visa but her sister can get her one now she's living in the UK.

 

Looks like you have to knuw how to play the system. 

[englishinsiam]

My wife now has a British passport it's indeed a pain to go through it all. But it's well worth it in the end.

ukba has to be self funding and those funds come from legitimate people like us. i don't agree with that but that's the way it is and if we want our spouses in the uk we have to suck it up.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jip99]

14 minutes ago, englishinsiam said:

My wife now has a British passport it's indeed a pain to go through it all. But it's well worth it in the end.

ukba has to be self funding and those funds come from legitimate people like us. i don't agree with that but that's the way it is and if we want our spouses in the uk we have to suck it up.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

What would you say the estimated cost, and time period was, to get to the passport stage?

[rasg]

1 hour ago, jinners said:

Incorrect, they are not per my reply below and have the ability to deny even when everything is complete and satisfactory with of course no need to respond. I'm just lucky my appeal worked so my wife has met my aging mum and other family members.

There's no doubt the government takes the line of least resistance when deciding these applications as it's much more profitable and simple to deal with than the illegals/legals/immigrants with no/little paperwork.

As per drivers, tax payers in general and all other lawful individuals, it's a easy target, the immigration process is there to frustrate and make money not assist citizens in a time of need dealing with something thats really quite stressful and expensive. Terrible system.

If everything was "complete and satisfactory" your wife would have received the visa. There was something in your visa application that was incomplete or missing, something that the ECO didn’t like or you didn't fulfill all of the requirements for the visa. Showing the refusal notice would show exactly why. Too many on here when talking about visa refusals seem to miss out bits of information when their partner's visa is refused.

 

A very high percentage of settlement visas are granted first time (even higher than the 95% of visit visas) but I have no doubt that the odd one is rejected onerously because there are so many going through the system.

 

It might be a "terrible system" but it is the one we have and you have to work within it to be allowed a visa.

 

I had been with my then GF for about a year when she was granted her settlement visa. No issues. Or the two visit visas prior and we had only known one another a few months when she applied for her first.

 

 

[rasg]

55 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

What would you say the estimated cost, and time period was, to get to the passport stage?

It's five years for ILR. I don't know how long you have to wait to apply for a British passport.

 

Cost is a difficult one as the costs go up every year but I would take a good guess at around £17000 for my wife by the time she has finished. That is without the associated costs of flights, hotels, etc at the Thai end of the process for the first Settlement visa.

[Jonnapat]

In the UK  it's hard to get ANYTHING at the moment 

[MyFriend You]

Are you sure you're not talking about America??  Sounds very familiar.........

Edited September 9, 2017 by TunnelRat69

[catman20]

hope so

[7by7]

2 hours ago, paul545 said:

UK immigration are a law unto themselves. 

 

If you are a member of the European community working in the UK and marry a Thai she doesn't even need a visa to get into the UK just a right of entry. I can't get my wife a visa but her sister can get her one now she's living in the UK.

 

Looks like you have to knuw how to play the system. 

 UKVI have to follow the immigration rules for the type of visa applied for. Those rules are set by Parliament.

 

Yes, EEA nationals have freedom of movement rights in the UK, as do their qualifying non EEA national family members. Just as British nationals and their qualifying non EEA national family members have in the other EEA member sates. Of course, post Brexit this will probably change.

 

Please explain how your wife's sister, presumably also Thai, can get your wife a visa to live in the UK when you, presumably British, can't. Non EEA national siblings are not automatically qualifying family members, although they can be counted as such in certain circumstances, e.g. if they are totally financially dependent upon their non EEA national sibling and that sibling's EEA national spouse.

 

The freedom of movement directive does not apply in the member state of which the EEA national is a citizen; unless Surinder Singh applies. 

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, rasg said:

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

What would you say the estimated cost, and time period was, to get to the passport stage?

It's five years for ILR. I don't know how long you have to wait to apply for a British passport.

 

Cost is a difficult one as the costs go up every year but I would take a good guess at around £17000 for my wife by the time she has finished. That is without the associated costs of flights, hotels, etc at the Thai end of the process for the first Settlement visa.

 As rasg says, the fees do increase each year; but his estimate of £17,000 is rather high!

 

To give you an idea, for 2017/18 the fees are:

• initial visa: £1464 plus £600 NHS surcharge;
• FLR after 30 months residence in UK: £993 plus £500 NHS surcharge;
• ILR 30 months after FLR: £2297;
• naturalisation: £1282 plus the standard passport application fee of £72.50;
• total: £7208.50.

Of course, there are other costs as well; the TB test, currently 3,800 baht, the English speaking and listening tests, cost depends on the fee of the approved provider used and the number of tests you need to take*, and the Life in the UK test, currently £50.

 

* The grade required for the initial visa is A1, for FLR it's A2 and for ILR it's B1. If the required grade or better, then the pass used for a previous successful application can be used again for subsequent ones, even if the certificate has expired. So how many tests one has to take depends on the grade achieved in each test. But candidates don't all take the same test and are then graded; they take a test for a specific grade, e.g. A1, and either pass or fail.

 

As you can see, it takes at least 5 years UK residence to achieve ILR, and the spouse of a British citizen can then apply for naturalisation immediately they have been granted ILR; provided the other requirements are met, of course.

Edited September 9, 2017 by 7by7
Links added

[Jip99]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 As rasg says, the fees do increase each year; but his estimate of £17,000 is rather high!

 

To give you an idea, for 2017/18 the fees are:

• initial visa: £1464 plus £600 NHS surcharge;
• FLR after 30 months residence in UK: £993 plus £500 NHS surcharge;
• ILR 30 months after FLR: £2297;
• naturalisation: £1282 plus the standard passport application fee of £72.50;
• total: £7208.50.

Of course, there are other costs as well; the TB test, currently 3,800 baht, the English speaking and listening tests, cost depends on the fee of the approved provider used and the number of tests you need to take*, and the Life in the UK test, currently £50.

 

* The grade required for the initial visa is A1, for FLR it's A2 and for ILR it's B1. If the required grade or better, then the pass used for a previous successful application can be used again for subsequent ones, even if the certificate has expired. So how many tests one has to take depends on the grade achieved in each test. But candidates don't all take the same test and are then graded; they take a test for a specific grade, e.g. A1, and either pass or fail.

 

As you can see, it takes at least 5 years UK residence to achieve ILR, and the spouse of a British citizen can then apply for naturalisation immediately they have been granted ILR; provided the other requirements are met, of course.

 

 

Thank you.... most helpful.

[7by7]

The title of this topic is "Is UK making it harder to get your spouse back?"

 

Well, looking at the changes introduced since my wife and step daughter applied in 2000, the answer is "Yes."

 

Since then the changes introduced have been:

• the LitUK test,
• the speaking and listening tests,
• the TB test,
• the iniquitous financial requirement replacing the more sensible, and fairer, adequate maintenance requirement.

But it needs to be remembered that it was not UKVI nor the Home Office who initiated these changes; it was the government of the day; Labour, the coalition and Conservative. Don't blame the officials for them, blame their political masters.

 

It's also more expensive than it was 17 years ago.

 

When my wife and step daughter applied the fee for the initial visa was, if memory serves, £260 each. This included the cost of processing FLR, if required, and then ILR. Labour under Blair then introduced additional fees for these in UK applications, without reducing the initial fee accordingly. Instead they raised all settlemnt fees considerably and introduced the principle of annual above inflation increases to those fees.

 

As for those who have posted their refusal experiences; they do, of course, have my sympathy.

 

However, experience and research will show that there are just three reasons for a refusal of any UK visa application:

1. the applicant simply didn't meet the requirements of the immigration rules;
2. the applicant did meet those requirements, but failed to show that they did;
3. the applicant did meet those requirements but the ECO made an error.

Of course, without knowing the full details of each application, including the full refusal notice and the evidence supplied with the application, it is impossible to say which of the above any individual refusal falls into.

 

But I have seen many refusals under number 2 which were later overturned on appeal when the missing evidence was presented.

 

[LannaGuy]

So they should 'tighten the screws' why should these kids be allowed in?  you don't think we have enough already?  one thing UK does not need is Thais!  

[sammieuk1]

The quickest way to reside in the UK is refugee status Syrians are doing particularly well along with many middle eastern country's once granted you can apply to get all your family members in and housed + benefits but if you are married to a non EU national and can't meet the £18.300pa earnings  or the £70 odd grand savings then do one .For those lucky enough with funds jump through the hoop.

[elliss]

4 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

In the UK  it's hard to get ANYTHING at the moment 

Exsuse me , one can have zero hour working contracts , a plenty 

   along with no sick leave /holiday pay etc. Much the  same as World leaders, Asian economy .

  World economy is too profitable for war , at the moment . 

    

  

Edited September 9, 2017 by elliss

[Falcon]

I believe that it is a citizens unviolable right to be able to have the spouse and children to be allowed in to the country so that they are able to live as a family and not, as in some cases, forced to live apart and, in some cases, '000's of miles apart for who knows how long.

 

saying that though, it's the same here in Thailand for those of us that are married to Thai citizens. The Thai law, government and immigration have no real thoughts or interests in a family having the right to be able to live together as a family. We still have to go through the same procedure year in, year out just for the 1 year visa/extension every year no matter how long we've been married. At least in the U.K., the most difficult thing is getting the initial spouse visa, once this is done it's just another year to get a leave to enter and then, after a 5 yr period, it's possible to apply for U.K. Citizenship.again, for all of us here in Thailand married to nationals, there is no such law or availability and even people married for 30 years are still forced to keep extending only for the 1yr at a time. 

[rasg]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 As rasg says, the fees do increase each year; but his estimate of £17,000 is rather high!

I think I must have had a slip of the finger with the 1...

 

Maybe it just seems like it's 17K!

[7by7]

1 hour ago, sammieuk1 said:

The quickest way to reside in the UK is refugee status Syrians are doing particularly well along with many middle eastern country's once granted you can apply to get all your family members in and housed + benefits..........

Obtaining asylum in the UK is not as simple as the ill informed have been led to belive; see Claim asylum in the UK.

 

The UK is a civilised country, and those seeking asylum are not left to starve; but they don't get much: see Asylum support.

 

Syrians are not even in the top 10 of nationalities seeking asylum in the UK; see "Applications by nationality" in Quarterly asylum statistics August 2017

 

A couple more facts from that document

Quote

The number of applications for asylum in the UK decreased in Q2 2017 compared with Q2 2016, and also compared with each of the last four quarters...........

 

32% of initial decisions in Q2 2017 were to grant asylum, compared with 29% in Q2 2016. 0.7% of initial decisions in Q2 2017 were to grant Humanitarian Protection or Discretionary Leave, compared with 0.8% in Q2 2016, and 65% were refusals, a 1% decrease on Q2 2016.

(7by7emphasis)

 

 See also Top 20 facts about refugees and people seeking asylum.

 

But this is a topic about family members of British citizens, spouses in particular, seeking leave to settle in the UK; not refugees.

Edited September 9, 2017 by 7by7

[theoldgit]

Indeed, please don't derail the thread by discussing the "refugee route", as 7by7 has rightly pointed out that isn't what this thread aims to discuss, further posts discussing that perception will be deleted without further notice.

[pumpjack]

20 hours ago, rasg said:

It's five years for ILR. I don't know how long you have to wait to apply for a British passport.

 

Cost is a difficult one as the costs go up every year but I would take a good guess at around £17000 for my wife by the time she has finished. That is without the associated costs of flights, hotels, etc at the Thai end of the process for the first Settlement visa.

 

£17000 ?    please get your facts right ........   it does not cost anywhere near that amount ! 

Edited September 10, 2017 by pumpjack

[rasg]

4 hours ago, pumpjack said:

£17000 ?    please get your facts right ........   it does not cost anywhere near that amount ! 

And please read my second post...

[jinners]

On 9/9/2017 at 3:51 PM, rasg said:

If everything was "complete and satisfactory" your wife would have received the visa. There was something in your visa application that was incomplete or missing, something that the ECO didn’t like or you didn't fulfill all of the requirements for the visa. Showing the refusal notice would show exactly why. Too many on here when talking about visa refusals seem to miss out bits of information when their partner's visa is refused.

 

A very high percentage of settlement visas are granted first time (even higher than the 95% of visit visas) but I have no doubt that the odd one is rejected onerously because there are so many going through the system.

 

It might be a "terrible system" but it is the one we have and you have to work within it to be allowed a visa.

 

I had been with my then GF for about a year when she was granted her settlement visa. No issues. Or the two visit visas prior and we had only known one another a few months when she applied for her first.

 

 

Look, I'm not making this up and whatever you may think you know, you're wrong. There was nothing wrong, erroneous, missing, incomplete, or otherwise on my application. I submitted the appeal, paid more money, and received an approval. What you want me to say, I'm wrong we forgot xyz? I know what happened you don't. Just because you had an app sail trough does not mean that is the norm, far from it.

Stating the obvious is not particularly helpful either. Stating percentages of approvals and declinations is meaningless. I go on my experience and the experience of another friend who had similar experience then paid an agent to flower it up and back hand the staff, at which time he received an approval. perhaps you're an agent doing the same. I have no clue and wouldn't assume so please stop assuming you know better than others.