North Korea threatens to "sink" Japan, reduce U.S. to "ashes and darkness"

[F4UCorsair]

On 9/15/2017 at 1:09 AM, KIWIBATCH said:

It's time for the rest of the world to join together...and flatten North Korea into a  dustbowl....before it's too late...or at least take this idiot out by whatever means.

He is (in my view) declaring war with his threats...and they are nuclear threats......Did Britain wait around for bloody years when Hitler did the same....No!! they got stuck in and nailed Germany flat.

 

And a fair bit of Britain was nailed flat before the Brits, and allies, gained the upper hand.

[F4UCorsair]

19 hours ago, transam said:

To me the NK thing is about one bloke with only cheese between his ears and a populous in fear of doing/saying something wrong and being shot. Reminds me of some Germans who tried to take Hitler out cos they thought it was all going to work out bad because of what he had between his ears.

 

Cheese head is not going to change, if China did something "helpful" then perhaps, but seems they are more interested in business than safety of others.

 

To fire those things over Japan should have been the last straw to shut cheesy down, all trade should have been stopped including oil. Tough on the population but in our history we had to deal with tough stuff..

 

 

 

Shutting down ALL trade hurts the North Korean people even more.  Winter's almost on the northern hemisphere, and already thousands die each year because of the cold.   With a trade embargo that will get even worse, and the vertically challenged, ridiculously coiffured moron doesn't care about his people....they starve while he develops nuclear weapons.

 

I fear the only way this will end is in war, and it's a war NK can't win.  If he makes a move, he might as well be writing a suicide note, and regrettably, that will result in tens of thousands of NK civilian deaths.  Whatever happens, the long suffering NK people will be the victims.

[F4UCorsair]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:38 AM, inThailand said:

He's making Trumpster look sane! 

 

On 9/15/2017 at 8:46 AM, sirineou said:

Not an easy task!

I hear that Trump has a re-election committee , their slogan for 2020 will be, " Re-elect Him, At least he is not Kim" 

 

I wondered how long it would take.

 

Seriously, do you really feel the need to turn this into another Trump bashing thread?    Sure you do, and bore every thinking poster to tears.

 

Some of you guys would turn a Mary Poppins thread into a Trump bashing one.   It's boring, tedious, infantile, and just plain stupid.

Edited September 17, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

 

I wondered how long it would take.

 

Seriously, do you really feel the need to turn this into another Trump bashing thread?    Sure you do, and bore every thinking poster to tears.

 

Some of you guys would turn a Mary Poppins thread into a Trump bashing one.   It's boring, tedious, infantile, and just plain stupid.

To you perhaps to me watching two monkeys flinging poo at each other is entertaining until I realise that they have the potential  to drag all of as into their insanity.   

Edited September 17, 2017 by sirineou

[metisdead]

Posts bickering about punctuation usage have been removed as well as the replies. 

[Jdiddy]

Another thread, another 50 ignorant warmonger "solutions" to NK, no wonder they are arming themselves to the teeth and threatening icbm attacks

 

Drop the sanctions, encourage trade, stop forcing them into isolation and backing them into a corner, start mining those $trillions worth of minerals, let capitalism creep in, let the population get rich and decadent, accept them as another nuclear armed country

 

Ill give it a few weeks before the next round of sabre rattling occurs and discussions pop up with braindead "more sanctions" and "its time to flatten the country" posts, because thats working really well isnt it? lol

Ill bet the people who bring up the "starving population" are the ones that cry for more sanctions, which only make things harder for the population while The Fat Controller trades under the radar and uses the cash for nukes and his pleasure palace

 

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Jdiddy

[craigt3365]

30 minutes ago, Jdiddy said:

Another thread, another 50 ignorant warmonger "solutions" to NK, no wonder they are arming themselves to the teeth and threatening icbm attacks

 

Drop the sanctions, encourage trade, stop forcing them into isolation and backing them into a corner, start mining those $trillions worth of minerals, let capitalism creep in, let the population get rich and decadent, accept them as another nuclear armed country

 

Ill give it a few weeks before the next round of sabre rattling occurs and discussions pop up with braindead "more sanctions" and "its time to flatten the country" posts, because thats working really well isnt it? lol

Ill bet the people who bring up the "starving population" are the ones that cry for more sanctions, which only make things harder for the population while The Fat Controller trades under the radar and uses the cash for nukes and his pleasure palace

 

They are being forced into a corner due to their own actions.  The actions by Kim.  Perhaps your anger should be focused on him?  He has drastically increased missile testing since he became the dictator.  Way beyond what his predecessors did.

 

North Korea has had sanctions for years.  Unlike any other country.  For a variety of reasons.  Trafficking drugs, forced labor, counterfeiting money, hacking, etc, etc.  Should the world just turn a blind eye and let them carry on? 

 

China just released a report saying the mountain over the nuclear tests might collapse.  If it does, radiation will be released and go into China.  Not a good thing.

[sirineou]

39 minutes ago, Jdiddy said:

Another thread, another 50 ignorant warmonger "solutions" to NK, no wonder they are arming themselves to the teeth and threatening icbm attacks

 

Drop the sanctions, encourage trade, stop forcing them into isolation and backing them into a corner, start mining those $trillions worth of minerals, let capitalism creep in, let the population get rich and decadent, accept them as another nuclear armed country

 

Ill give it a few weeks before the next round of sabre rattling occurs and discussions pop up with braindead "more sanctions" and "its time to flatten the country" posts, because thats working really well isnt it? lol

Ill bet the people who bring up the "starving population" are the ones that cry for more sanctions, which only make things harder for the population while The Fat Controller trades under the radar and uses the cash for nukes and his pleasure palace

 

 

could not add anything to this other than say

Edited September 18, 2017 by sirineou

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

They are being forced into a corner due to their own actions.  The actions by Kim.  Perhaps your anger should be focused on him?  He has drastically increased missile testing since he became the dictator.  Way beyond what his predecessors did.

 

North Korea has had sanctions for years.  Unlike any other country.  For a variety of reasons.  Trafficking drugs, forced labor, counterfeiting money, hacking, etc, etc.  Should the world just turn a blind eye and let them carry on? 

 

China just released a report saying the mountain over the nuclear tests might collapse.  If it does, radiation will be released and go into China.  Not a good thing.

Actions and reactions,,,,,

What came first, the chicken or the egg.

[craigt3365]

Just now, sirineou said:

Actions and reactions,,,,,

What came first, the chicken or the egg.

In this case, a violation of the nuclear non proliferation treaty.

 

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Quote

 

In 1994, faced with North Korea’s announced intent to withdraw from the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), which requires non-nuclear weapon states to forswear the development and acquisition of nuclear weapons, the United States and North Korea signed the Agreed Framework. Under this agreement, Pyongyang committed to freezing its illicit plutonium weapons program in exchange for aid.

 

Following the collapse of this agreement in 2002, North Korea claimed that it had withdrawn from the NPT in January 2003 and once again began operating its nuclear facilities.

 

 

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/6partytalks
 

Quote

 

The six-party talks were a series of multilateral negotiations held intermittently since 2003 and attended by China, Japan, North Korea, Russia, South Korea, and the United States for the purpose of dismantling North Korea’s nuclear program.

 

On April 5, 2009, after repeated warnings from the United States, Japan and South Korea, Pyongyang test-fired a modified Taepo Dong-2 three-stage rocket, ostensibly as part of its civilian space program. The UN Security Council issued a presidential statement April 13 calling the test a violation of Resolution 1718, and expanded sanctions on North Korean firms shortly afterwards. North Korea responded on April 14, declaring that it would no longer participate in the six-party talks and that it would no longer be bound by any of the previous agreements reached in the discussions.

 

 

Lots has been done to work with NK.  But they don't seem interested.

[hawker9000]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

Shutting down ALL trade hurts the North Korean people even more.  Winter's almost on the northern hemisphere, and already thousands die each year because of the cold.   With a trade embargo that will get even worse, and the vertically challenged, ridiculously coiffured moron doesn't care about his people....they starve while he develops nuclear weapons.

 

I fear the only way this will end is in war, and it's a war NK can't win.  If he makes a move, he might as well be writing a suicide note, and regrettably, that will result in tens of thousands of NK civilian deaths.  Whatever happens, the long suffering NK people will be the victims.

"hurts the North Korean people even more."

 

Yes, and that's lamentable, but under Kim's despotism unavoidable.  He not only demands the resources for his own use, the damage done to the people through deprivation well serves his xenophobic and anti-US agenda.   There is simply no way out of all this that doesn't hurt the N. Korean people, and that's not accidental.   It's not too much different from cowardly Islamists using their human shields, and quite often those human shields are perfectly willing to be so used!

 

That being the case, it only makes sense to try and limit the damage as much as possible.  Get it done, make it effective, and get it the heck over with.   Boy statesman put this whole thing on hold, enabled this whackjob, and got us to where we are now.  No one's saying it's going to be a walk in the park for anybody, but continuing to put off the inevitable is only going to keep making matters worse.  Fatboy is only going to be adding nukes to his arsenal from here on out, with each and every passing month.  Boys & girls, act now or live (maybe) to wish to God you had.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by hawker9000

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

"hurts the North Korean people even more."

 

Yes, and that's lamentable, but under Kim's despotism unavoidable.  He not only demands the resources for his own use, the damage done to the people through deprivation well serves his xenophobic and anti-US agenda.   There is simply no way out of all this that doesn't hurt the N. Korean people, and that's not accidental.   It's not too much different from cowardly Islamists using their human shields, and quite often those human shields are perfectly willing to be so used!

 

"There is simply no way out of all this that doesn't hurt the N. Korean people, and that's not accidental."

 

There is once you finish that sentence at "There is simply no way out of all this". They have the bomb and that is the end of it. The sooner the fact is recognised and accepted, the better. Stop poking the hornets' nest and making matters worse.

[hawker9000]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

"There is simply no way out of all this that doesn't hurt the N. Korean people, and that's not accidental."

 

There is once you finish that sentence at "There is simply no way out of all this". They have the bomb and that is the end of it. The sooner the fact is recognised and accepted, the better. Stop poking the hornets' nest and making matters worse.

Stop sticking your head in the sand and the Pollyanna nonsense and fantasizing that matters are not as bad as they are.   The nukes are, at best, for the purpose of aid extortion, and the whole world at this point (well, except for a few Pollyannas perhaps) knows it.   Letting him grow his nuke farm is a one-way ticket to self-destruction.

 

Kicking the can down the road is what makes matters worse.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by hawker9000

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

"There is simply no way out of all this that doesn't hurt the N. Korean people, and that's not accidental."

 

There is once you finish that sentence at "There is simply no way out of all this". They have the bomb and that is the end of it. The sooner the fact is recognised and accepted, the better. Stop poking the hornets' nest and making matters worse.

They have the bomb, but have not gotten it onto a war head.  Huge difference.  Perhaps they should stop poking the hornet's nest and making matters worse?  Easy way out of this.  Become a good member of our global community.

[baboon]

9 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Stop sticking your head in the sand and the Pollyanna nonsense and fantasizing that matters are not as bad as they are.   The nukes are, at best, for the purpose of aid extortion, and the whole world at this point (well, except for a few Pollyannas perhaps) knows it.   Letting him grow his nuke farm is a one-way ticket to self-destruction.

 

Kicking the can down the road is what makes matters worse.

 

 

Come on, then: What next?

[baboon]

8 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

They have the bomb, but have not gotten it onto a war head.  Huge difference.  Perhaps they should stop poking the hornet's nest and making matters worse?  Easy way out of this.  Become a good member of our global community.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Agreed.  Kim's too crazy to come back to the real world.  He's in a never never fantasy land of his own making.  Sadly.

[hawker9000]

Just now, baboon said:

Come on, then: What next?

'Guess you don't read or listen to the news much.  For starters, a TOTAL embargo.  Cut off everything.  Esp. ALL, not merely some, ALL oil and natural gas derivative imports.  Impose a quarantine.  And obviously it'll have to be done unilaterally.  So be it.  Nothing in.  Nothing out.   Then impose all possible financial sanctions, to include countries doing business with N. Korea. and, as much as possible, all dollar-denominated transactions, again, to include countries illegally doing business with N. Korea.   Stop with the U.N. incrementalism that achieves nothing.  JFK didn't dither waiting for UN approval of HIS quarantine; neither should Trump.   If boy statesman had acted a lot earlier, all this wouldn't have been necessary now.

[rijb]

Here's a list of how they evade UN sanctions...

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2111440/how-north-korea-evades-un-sanctions

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

'Guess you don't read or listen to the news much.  For starters, a TOTAL embargo.  Cut off everything.  Esp. ALL, not merely some, ALL oil and natural gas derivative imports.  Impose a quarantine.  And obviously it'll have to be done unilaterally.  So be it.  Nothing in.  Nothing out.   Then impose all possible financial sanctions, to include countries doing business with N. Korea. and, as much as possible, all dollar-denominated transactions, again, to include countries illegally doing business with N. Korea.   Stop with the U.N. incrementalism that achieves nothing.  JFK didn't dither waiting for UN approval of HIS quarantine; neither should Trump.   If boy statesman had acted a lot earlier, all this wouldn't have been necessary now.

So starve them to death. Well it's a thought, but I don't know how well the Chinese would take it or how far they would go along with it. Also there are other countries out there who love nothing more than sticking two fingers up at Uncle Sam.

Plus backing them into a corner leaves them (the DPRK leadership) with nothing left to lose.

 

The Cuban Missile Crisis saw weapons withdrawn from Turkey, so the USSR did receive some concessions. However it is futile just to go to the table with an intention to simply discuss the terms of a nation's capitulation. 

[craigt3365]

21 minutes ago, rijb said:

Here's a list of how they evade UN sanctions...

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2111440/how-north-korea-evades-un-sanctions

Almost all involve China or Russia....

[transam]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

To you perhaps to me watching two monkeys flinging poo at each other is entertaining until I realise that they have the potential  to drag all of as into their insanity.   

I think it is just ONE monkey causing the problem, that is the guy trying to acquire nukes and blatantly advertising what he intends to do with them. Doesn't matter who the USA prezzy is, he or she would be doing the same to close cheese head down..

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, baboon said:

Plus backing them into a corner leaves them (the DPRK leadership) with nothing left to lose.

 

They've placed themselves into this position.  The US isn't threatening to invade, say, Argentina.  Nor Kenya.  Nor most other countries.  Only those who are trying to develop nuclear weapons outside the current treaties have issues with the global community.  For good reasons.

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

I think it is just ONE monkey causing the problem, that is the guy trying to acquire nukes and blatantly advertising what he intends to do with them. Doesn't matter who the USA prezzy is, he or she would be doing the same to close cheese head down..

It takes more than one monkey to have a poo fight

IMO I don't think NK would be doing any of what it does if it did not feel threatened.And IMO I don't thin it feels threatened without good reason.

[Srikcir]

21 minutes ago, baboon said:

Cuban Missile Crisis saw weapons withdrawn from Turkey, so the USSR did receive some concessions

The land-based Jupiter missiles had become obsolete. They were to be replaced by the Polaris submarine launched ballistic missile. Moreover, the Jupiter missile was considered to be an easy target for a Russian pre-emptive attack and detracted from Turkish security.

https://turkeywonk.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/turkeys-nuclear-missiles-an-important-player-in-the-cuban-missile-crisis/

The USSR only got a symbolic concession. Diplomacy at its best.

 

[Srikcir]

54 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

JFK didn't dither waiting for UN approval of HIS quarantine; neither should Trump. 

Ironically, in 1916 the US warned France that -

"The United States does not recognize the right of any foreign power to impose barriers to the exercise to the commercial rights of non-interested nations, by using the blockade when there is no state of war." http://en.granma.cu/cuba/2017-02-02/why-a-blockade-and-not-an-embargo

 

JFK did get approval from the OAS but that body had no international authority such as the UN Security Council. As such the Cuban Blockade had no legal international basis. A US blockade would constitute an act of war against the blockaded nation. Something I'm sure didn't worry JFK from any Cuban counter attack. But Russian reaction was another matter.

 

If the US used an unsanctioned blockade against NK, I believe that Jong-Un would have the right under international law to defend itself against such aggression and counter attack the US. That would not constitute a "first-strike." Under those circumstances, China (and Russia?) might provide at least limited, indirect military support of NK to prevent regime change.

 

[transam]

48 minutes ago, sirineou said:

It takes more than one monkey to have a poo fight

IMO I don't think NK would be doing any of what it does if it did not feel threatened.And IMO I don't thin it feels threatened without good reason.

What reason...?

There has been a cease fire for half a century, SK has become a country contributing to the world with it's products whilst NK has got nowhere, just killing it's subjects for nothing in it's death camps and war mongering, just because of one fruit cake...

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, transam said:

What reason...?

There has been a cease fire for half a century, SK has become a country contributing to the world with it's products whilst NK has got nowhere, just killing it's subjects for nothing in it's death camps and war mongering, just because of one fruit cake...

IMO during the cold war, the US and capital in general would not allow and did anything in their power to subvert and prevent any communist system from succeeding. Any such successful system would show the people that there might be a different way to live that might be jast as good or better, and capital would not let that happen.

 Personally I do not support either communism or Capitalism and believe a hybrid system best serves the goals of both the Left and the Right , but we will never know if a communist  system  could succeed because such system was always systematically subverted and not allowed to succeed or fail on its merits. 

This Subversion has not gone unnoticed by communist regimes resulting on defencive measures

    Consider your self, if were isolated and threatened how would you react?  Would you not also react the same way

  IMO .Kim Jong-un and his ilk are products of our own behaviour, Treat the system differently , they become unnecessary and go away.

   

 

[BuaBS]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

Consider your self, if were isolated and threatened how would you react?  Would you not also react the same way

  IMO .Kim Jong-un and his ilk are products of our own behaviour, Treat the system differently , they become unnecessary and go away.

Well said !

[transam]

16 minutes ago, sirineou said:

IMO during the cold war, the US and capital in general would not allow and did anything in their power to subvert and prevent any communist system from succeeding. Any such successful system would show the people that there might be a different way to live that might be jast as good or better, and capital would not let that happen.

 Personally I do not support either communism or Capitalism and believe a hybrid system best serves the goals of both the Left and the Right , but we will never know if a communist  system  could succeed because such system was always systematically subverted and not allowed to succeed or fail on its merits. 

This Subversion has not gone unnoticed by communist regimes resulting on defencive measures

    Consider your self, if were isolated and threatened how would you react?  Would you not also react the same way

  IMO .Kim Jong-un and his ilk are products of our own behaviour, Treat the system differently , they become unnecessary and go away.

   

 

The difference is NK has been left alone for half a century but now they are test flying stuff over Japan. You OK with that...?