'Disaster looms,' says head of UK's anti-Brexit party

[CG1 Blue]

45 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/

 

This is what the Telegraph stated on the issue.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

 

And this explains a Gaussian or Normal distribution

 

There are outliers of course. I am 63 and voted remain. However the correlations are real.

 

https://www.mathsisfun.com/data/correlation.html

 

Remember, correlation is NOT causation!

 

I have no desire to insult or annoy anyone. However the facts are there. I am not baiting or trolling but I would like the truth to be understood. It's important.

 

Jacob Rees Mogg is a Brexiter. He is well educated. He is an outlier.

 

OK now? If not, sorry but I give up.

 

BTW Poisson distribution was a witticism for the hard of hearing.

 

 

I sometimes wonder if I'd be this bitter if the vote had gone the other way. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/

 

This is what the Telegraph stated on the issue.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

 

And this explains a Gaussian or Normal distribution

 

There are outliers of course. I am 63 and voted remain. However the correlations are real.

 

https://www.mathsisfun.com/data/correlation.html

 

Remember, correlation is NOT causation!

 

I have no desire to insult or annoy anyone. However the facts are there. I am not baiting or trolling but I would like the truth to be understood. It's important.

 

Jacob Rees Mogg is a Brexiter. He is well educated. He is an outlier.

 

OK now? If not, sorry but I give up.

 

BTW Poisson distribution was a witticism for the hard of hearing.

 

 

An important root cause of the distribution and choice of the referendum vote and the polls used here is that of wealth. Most of the younger voters who wanted to remain were concentrated around London and the SE and they are those most likely to belong to relatively affluent families, which in turn have been more able to afford to send their kids to university, even through the recent years of steeply rising tuition fees. 

 

The bread-winners of these wealthier families in the SE are also more likely to be pro EU as many of them are employed by large multi-national corporations, which promote the EU down through their managerial staff hierarchies (EU policy favours big business) and which also extensively lobby the EU in Brussels. The children of these breadwinners must be influenced by their parents and that is natural. All of the young people in the UK have grown up with the EU there as a constant reference point that they may be scared to lose and I understand that too. But I'm glad that some of the kids have had the vision to research the pros and cons of EU membership, critically, and come to their own conclusions.  

 

To say that more people with a higher level of education voted remain is probably true. However, many of those who have recently graduated have had the chance only after the availability of places increased dramatically, after most of the poly-technical colleges became universities and especially after Blair's policies of the 1990's - possibly good intent but at what cost? Many academics have recently voiced concerns about dumbing-down of marking/grading, lowering of course entry requirements (grades) and plagiarism, which is apparently all too common. 

 

Do we need 50% of the population to have a BA (Hons) Angry Birds anyway? Looking at the TV interviews of the young remainers demonstrating in London on the day after the referendum, many of whom said they were students, present or recent, most of these were able to demonstrate little or zero actual knowledge of the EU, it's structure, it's workings or who the main leaders were. So I would have to say no, we don't we need 50% of them to have an Angry Birds degree.

 

There is a better case for less pure universities and a return of more colleges which would grant credible, achievable, practical and respected diplomas and certificates in technical and other needed fields. This would encourage higher standards across the board and maybe even help stop the fees going up! The student loan debt figures indicate a shambles!

 

Lastly, it is totally unfair to accuse the older voters for being uneducated (assuming that that means at least a first university degree). What chance did most of them have of attending university? Especially post WW2? The number of universities were far fewer and available places fewer still.

 

TGIF Happy Hour

 

Enjoy!

 

  

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, nauseus said:

An important root cause of the distribution and choice of the referendum vote and the polls used here is that of wealth. Most of the younger voters who wanted to remain were concentrated around London and the SE and they are those most likely to belong to relatively affluent families, which in turn have been more able to afford to send their kids to university, even through the recent years of steeply rising tuition fees. 

 

The bread-winners of these wealthier families in the SE are also more likely to be pro EU as many of them are employed by large multi-national corporations, which promote the EU down through their managerial staff hierarchies (EU policy favours big business) and which also extensively lobby the EU in Brussels. The children of these breadwinners must be influenced by their parents and that is natural. All of the young people in the UK have grown up with the EU there as a constant reference point that they may be scared to lose and I understand that too. But I'm glad that some of the kids have had the vision to research the pros and cons of EU membership, critically, and come to their own conclusions.  

 

To say that more people with a higher level of education voted remain is probably true. However, many of those who have recently graduated have had the chance only after the availability of places increased dramatically, after most of the poly-technical colleges became universities and especially after Blair's policies of the 1990's - possibly good intent but at what cost? Many academics have recently voiced concerns about dumbing-down of marking/grading, lowering of course entry requirements (grades) and plagiarism, which is apparently all too common. 

 

Do we need 50% of the population to have a BA (Hons) Angry Birds anyway? Looking at the TV interviews of the young remainers demonstrating in London on the day after the referendum, many of whom said they were students, present or recent, most of these were able to demonstrate little or zero actual knowledge of the EU, it's structure, it's workings or who the main leaders were. So I would have to say no, we don't we need 50% of them to have an Angry Birds degree.

 

There is a better case for less pure universities and a return of more colleges which would grant credible, achievable, practical and respected diplomas and certificates in technical and other needed fields. This would encourage higher standards across the board and maybe even help stop the fees going up! The student loan debt figures indicate a shambles!

 

Lastly, it is totally unfair to accuse the older voters for being uneducated (assuming that that means at least a first university degree). What chance did most of them have of attending university? Especially post WW2? The number of universities were far fewer and available places fewer still.

 

TGIF Happy Hour

 

Enjoy!

 

  

Rational words!

[aright]

Critical Thinking Skills are more important than IQ for making good decisions in life

 

 

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/07/21/why-some-smart-people-make-foolish-decisions/

[Rv Hawee]

Sorry for the UK but the wanted it !  

US may have Donald for  4 years, UK will have teir Brexit.

I was the only one  in my circle to think they may want to leave us (even if sometime I was asking myself if i was out my mind).

They  voted, now they have to assume.

I think it's better for all of them they didn't come back into the EU (which is far from perfect, I agree). 

[BangkokNicky]

her speech has too many lies when you look at when she was Home Secretary plus recent months even Climate change http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-department-killed-off-by-theresa-may-in-plain-stupid-and-deeply-worrying-move-a7137166.html

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, aright said:

It's not in the least bit important. Publishing demographs of what happened is water under the bridge. What's important was the referendum outcome; and the argument with Remainers is as a result of them trying to taint the outcome with spurious claims about the electorates IQ and their manifesto. Even if the claims are half true its not going to change the outcome.

The tragedy is that the Remainer's are intelligent people and if they stopped their sniping and applied their minds, and made a contribution, to the type of Britain they would like to see after Brexit, the UK and Europe would be better off.

Fine, I would like to have a UK with social justice, great secondary education, tertiary education at modest cost repaid through taxation, demolition of the whole UK housing edifice, long term investment in infrastructure, homogenous shopping centres abolished, higher taxes but a better health service, AND be part of the EU (with modifications selected by me)

 

oh, and free beer!

[BangkokNicky]

Take the UK Border Force. Despite the increased terror threat, it was already a dangerously underfunded and demoralised agency when Mrs May announced in April that its budget was to be cut. Then in May, after two people-smugglers’ vessels were found sinking off the Kent coast, the public discovered that the Force has only three cutters protecting 7,700 miles of coastline. Italy by contrast has 600 boats patrolling its 4722 miles.

 

Considering the impression Mrs May gives of being serious about security, it’s astonishing that she has also allowed the UK’s small airfields to go unpatrolled — despite their attraction for traffickers of people, drugs and arms, and the urgings of the security services.

 

Then there is the failure to establish exit checks at all the country’s airports and ports. These were supposed to be in place by March 2015.

Unfortunately the Border Force isn’t the only organisation under Mrs May’s control that is manifestly unfit for purpose. Recent years have seen a cavalcade of Home Office decisions about visas and deportations that suggest a department with a bizarre sense of the national interest. The most infamous episode was the refusal of visas to Afghan interpreters who served with the British forces in Afghanistan – as Lord Guthrie said, a national shame. Mrs May has kept so quiet about this and other scandals – such as the collapse of the E-borders IT system, at cost of almost a billion pounds – that you might imagine someone else was in charge the Home Office.

 

https://reaction.life/theresa-may-failed-home-secretary-bad-choice-pm/

[BangkokNicky]

uk top security  

 

'Sorted' by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488

 

Britain is now the second biggest arms dealer in the world

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest-arms-dealer-in-the-world-a7225351.html

 

Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were a 'failure' costing £29bn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10859545/Wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan-were-a-failure-costing-29bn.html

 

the list is endless and i have no faith in labour or conservative to be honest with you ..

 

 this was made in 2005 seems very smiler to what happening around the world since then .. 

 

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Fine, I would like to have a UK with social justice, great secondary education, tertiary education at modest cost repaid through taxation, demolition of the whole UK housing edifice, long term investment in infrastructure, homogenous shopping centres abolished, higher taxes but a better health service, AND be part of the EU (with modifications selected by me)

You can and may have this but you once again have forgot the main theme o the EU. It is do as we say or we will decimate you. It is about federalization. I am surprised for someone who was obviously more privileged  with a silver spoon in his mouth. the EU is nothing about its infrastructure except what the 3 main contributors give and the rest take.

My biggest thing is for someone who was obviously born with a silver spoon in his mouth hen did he forget his patriotism and started buying into the EU.

[aright]

46 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Fine, I would like to have a UK with social justice, great secondary education, tertiary education at modest cost repaid through taxation, demolition of the whole UK housing edifice, long term investment in infrastructure, homogenous shopping centres abolished, higher taxes but a better health service, AND be part of the EU (with modifications selected by me)

 

oh, and free beer!

Well done son. I think we have turned you around!  I am pleased that the majority of your ambitions don't involve the EU.

I have a meeting with Boris and Jacob next week and will be outlining your concerns which quite frankly I don't feel go far enough.

I will be proposing that anyone over 5 years of age, who can hold a crayon should be eligible to vote and I feel strongly we should make Swansea Airport the hub of the Welsh Space Program and all greyhound racing in the UK should be banned to stop the country going to the dogs. 

Oh I forgot free G&T's as well. It's what educated people drink. 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Critical Thinking Skills are more important than IQ for making good decisions in life

 

 

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/07/21/why-some-smart-people-make-foolish-decisions/

Nobody would argue with that!

 

Is it relevant?

[Grouse]

55 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You can and may have this but you once again have forgot the main theme o the EU. It is do as we say or we will decimate you. It is about federalization. I am surprised for someone who was obviously more privileged  with a silver spoon in his mouth. the EU is nothing about its infrastructure except what the 3 main contributors give and the rest take.

My biggest thing is for someone who was obviously born with a silver spoon in his mouth hen did he forget his patriotism and started buying into the EU.

My father was a teacher (modern languages) my mother was a farmer's daughter. My silver spoon was made of plastic. Everything I have is down to a first class education.

 

Sadly, your view of the EU is erroneous. It's not perfect but not at all as you portray.

 

I had a great time in both mainland Europe and the UK over the past 5 weeks. Fascinating, inspirational!

[aright]

39 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nobody would argue with that!

 

Is it relevant?

I raise it only because of your comment that low quality education in the UK resulted in millions rising to the bait without the cognitive skills to analyse the situation.

The report says there is no easy correlation between the benefits of formal education for critical thinking. A conclusion which quite frankly  I am not completely comfortable with. 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, aright said:

I raise it only because of your comment that low quality education in the UK resulted in millions rising to the bait without the cognitive skills to analyse the situation.

The report says there is no easy correlation between the benefits of formal education for critical thinking. A conclusion which quite frankly  I am not completely comfortable with. 

Corrolation is not causation

[aright]

46 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Corrolation is not causation

No but it can be interdependent 

[Khun Han]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

13 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/

 

This is what the Telegraph stated on the issue.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

 

And this explains a Gaussian or Normal distribution

 

There are outliers of course. I am 63 and voted remain. However the correlations are real.

 

https://www.mathsisfun.com/data/correlation.html

 

Remember, correlation is NOT causation!

 

I have no desire to insult or annoy anyone. However the facts are there. I am not baiting or trolling but I would like the truth to be understood. It's important.

 

Jacob Rees Mogg is a Brexiter. He is well educated. He is an outlier.

 

OK now? If not, sorry but I give up.

 

BTW Poisson distribution was a witticism for the hard of hearing.

 

 

An important root cause of the distribution and choice of the referendum vote and the polls used here is that of wealth. Most of the younger voters who wanted to remain were concentrated around London and the SE and they are those most likely to belong to relatively affluent families, which in turn have been more able to afford to send their kids to university, even through the recent years of steeply rising tuition fees. 

 

The bread-winners of these wealthier families in the SE are also more likely to be pro EU as many of them are employed by large multi-national corporations, which promote the EU down through their managerial staff hierarchies (EU policy favours big business) and which also extensively lobby the EU in Brussels. The children of these breadwinners must be influenced by their parents and that is natural. All of the young people in the UK have grown up with the EU there as a constant reference point that they may be scared to lose and I understand that too. But I'm glad that some of the kids have had the vision to research the pros and cons of EU membership, critically, and come to their own conclusions.  

 

To say that more people with a higher level of education voted remain is probably true. However, many of those who have recently graduated have had the chance only after the availability of places increased dramatically, after most of the poly-technical colleges became universities and especially after Blair's policies of the 1990's - possibly good intent but at what cost? Many academics have recently voiced concerns about dumbing-down of marking/grading, lowering of course entry requirements (grades) and plagiarism, which is apparently all too common. 

 

Do we need 50% of the population to have a BA (Hons) Angry Birds anyway? Looking at the TV interviews of the young remainers demonstrating in London on the day after the referendum, many of whom said they were students, present or recent, most of these were able to demonstrate little or zero actual knowledge of the EU, it's structure, it's workings or who the main leaders were. So I would have to say no, we don't we need 50% of them to have an Angry Birds degree.

 

There is a better case for less pure universities and a return of more colleges which would grant credible, achievable, practical and respected diplomas and certificates in technical and other needed fields. This would encourage higher standards across the board and maybe even help stop the fees going up! The student loan debt figures indicate a shambles!

 

Lastly, it is totally unfair to accuse the older voters for being uneducated (assuming that that means at least a first university degree). What chance did most of them have of attending university? Especially post WW2? The number of universities were far fewer and available places fewer still.

 

TGIF Happy Hour

 

Enjoy!

 

The attempts by remainers to correlate broad intelligence with higher education, and present brexiters as a bunch of dimwits for the most part is what used to be referred to by the existentialist branch of philosophy as bad faith, which, frankly,  reeks of desperation and paucity of argument (as we see time and again in debates on here, where remainers regularly try to take the discussions down narrow, speculative dead ends, then shout 'stupid' once it's pointed out to them that they've reached a dead end).

[aright]

 Yes!! So many Remainer's , when you ask them "What do you think of the menu?" say  "What kind of font is this?"

[Kenegg]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

My father was a teacher (modern languages) my mother was a farmer's daughter. My silver spoon was made of plastic. Everything I have is down to a first class education.

 

Sadly, your view of the EU is erroneous. It's not perfect but not at all as you portray.

 

I had a great time in both mainland Europe and the UK over the past 5 weeks. Fascinating, inspirational!

I agree Europe is lovely but its about how the EU run the show...individual countries are fascinating and inspirational the Dictators in Brussels have lost touch with reality with notions of Federalism 

[boomerangutang]

Britain and the US each got body-slammed last year.  The US with Trump, and Britain with Brexit.  How long before they each reach some sort of equilibrium?  .....I don't know, maybe 15 to 25 years. 

[Jack100]

On ‎21‎/‎9‎/‎2560 at 8:52 PM, puck2 said:

Because of the 13 paragraphs let me answer step by step.

Puck - could you expand on those points ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nauseus]

53 minutes ago, Jack100 said:

 

Please........noooo.

[hawker9000]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Britain and the US each got body-slammed last year.  The US with Trump, and Britain with Brexit.  How long before they each reach some sort of equilibrium?  .....I don't know, maybe 15 to 25 years. 

Nonsense.  They both were finally delivered to some light at the end of a dark, dreary tunnel by voters with common sense and vision.   The fact that the losers have since resorted to violence and intolerance only validates that.  How long before these wingnuts are restored to some level of sanity?   ...........I don't know, maybe never.  (Ask me again after the next Congressional baseball game.)

[Grouse]

13 hours ago, aright said:

No but it can be interdependent 

You said it!

[Scott]

Posts with profanity have been removed.  

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 2:34 PM, Rv Hawee said:

I think it's better for all of them they didn't come back into the EU (which is far from perfect, I agree). 

Far from perfect? I think that's a huge understatement my friend.

 

In 50 years from now people will look back on the EU project as one of the biggest cons in history. A bunch of unelected civil servants, paid massive salaries and pensions to homogenise 28 different (amazing, interesting) cultures, trying to create and rule a single state.  They don't have audited accounts, and that should ring alarm bells for anyone with any sense.

 

Whichever country you come from, I hope your people wake up to this nonsense soon.