'Disaster looms,' says head of UK's anti-Brexit party

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well certainly all the UKIP fascists.  No question about that.

Well I question that. The type of people I referred to are not fascists. 

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well I think by being in the EU you have a chance to change systems and I am sure that will happen given time. 

David Cameron tried that and was shown the door. Mr Junker has showed his vision in his speech last week which is more control, taking more sovereignty, having an EU army, One currency , bank etc That hardly seems like changing the system , more like consolidating the system.

[Laughing Gravy]

12 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Still on the up side, although we will struggle to fulfil all the vacancies and the NHS slips further into chaos at least in the  EU countries they will get their skilled people back. 

One the NHS will have less people to take care as the EU nationals, immigrants and hordes of family members will not be clogging the system up. Secondly the NHS can start to invest in training its own people. Thirdly the NHS can chose from other countries who have far better English such as the Philippines. Out of curiosity which part of the UK are you from and would you call yourself European or British first. Just curious.

 

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, dunroaming said:

The EU is mightily flawed and has been for some considerable time.  You either stay in and fight for change as Macron will or you leave and have no voice.  Britain has chosen to leave but cannot loosen all the apron strings.  It has been conceded by Davis and the Brexit brigade that we will still have to accept many of the European rules and pay in after we leave except that we will have no seat at the table.

 

Now there is a solution that would work reasonably well and that is the Norwegian system where we are out of the control of the EU but still get access to the single market.  It would still mean the free movement of people but we will still have to accept that with any deal negotiated.  Anyway the Brexit supporters keep claiming it is not about immigration.

 

The thing is that for all it's flaws (and there are many), is the UK going to be poorer or richer when we leave.  Brexiteers believe we will be richer and the Remoaners (I am happy to be called that) think we will be much poorer.  Only time will tell.

So why risk it?

 

The potential tangible upside is nowhere near large enough to risk the real major downside. The Norwegian model might be an option but what's the point?

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

No they don't. The lie that Brexit supporters are constantly having to dispel, is that supporting Brexit means being anti-immigration, means being against foreigners, mean being a racist and all the rest of the nonsense that gets spouted in a pathetic attempt to denigrate people on the other side of the argument.

 

Brexit supporters want a fair immigration policy that doesn't arbitrarily allow people from one nation to walk in completely unchecked, but at the same time, make it virtually impossible for people from another nation to even knock on the door. Treat every foreigner equally, why not? Screen them all in exactly the same way. Decide how many foreigners the infrastructure of the country can cope with, decide which areas of work need foreign labour, and then choose the right people, regardless of where they hail from.

 

Remainers need to stop acting like they have the moral high ground when it comes to immigration, because what they support is a highly discriminatory system.

Why not? We hold the moral high ground on every other aspect! ?

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Why not? We hold the moral high ground on every other aspect! ?

 

[Kenegg]

On 19/09/2017 at 11:35 AM, nauseus said:

That's what my post meant. What is wrong with YOU?

Sorry you didn't make your post clear This is TV :-)

[Krataiboy]

16 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Your position is clear.  You prefer to still believe the lies you were told by the Brexit camp (both sides lied) rather than see the reality which was exposed after the result.  Good for you to stick to your view even in the face of massive proof that Brexit will not deliver what you voted for. 

 

However it must be understandable to you that those of us who now see Brexit for what it really is and the chaos it has already become, that we have the right to try to stop this dreadful mistake.  Not in your view but most definitely in ours!

. . . those of us who now see Brexit for what it really is. . .

 

Both sides lied and twisted facts and figures (Did anyone ever seriously imagine for a moment that they wouldn't?). 

 

That is why I, like a lot of people, did my own research into the key issues before coming to a rational conclusion. Had you done the same you would not only "now" be starting to understand the inevitable initial consequences of leaving. 

 

Hang in there. The withdrawal symptoms will get worse before they start getting better. 

[billd766]

14 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well certainly all the UKIP fascists.  No question about that.

 

Thank you very much for calling me and many of my friends fascists.

 

Some days I think you have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

The other days I am sure that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

This being one of them.

[aright]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

So why risk it?

 

The potential tangible upside is nowhere near large enough to risk the real major downside. The Norwegian model might be an option but what's the point?

Yes there is risk involved on both sides.

But in light of Junckers vision of the quasi-totalitarian undemocratic  State I get the impression most Remainers would rather be certain they're miserable than risk being happy.

[Jip99]

16 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Well certainly all the UKIP fascists.  No question about that.

 

Your comment may have had more credibility had you said "fascists within UKIP....".

 

Your statement was designed to be all inclusive and was therefore bollorks.

[Jip99]

15 hours ago, dunroaming said:

 I will be off to live somewhere with a better climate than the UK and Mediterranean countries are high on the list.

 

 

Odd then, that you spend so much time on a Thailand forum.

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎19‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 4:58 AM, puck2 said:

Another point of view.

Why are the Brexeteers so afraid of a second voting ? It's not a voting about a soccer club. It's too important for UK's future.

 

If they win again, it's confirmed by the majority of the voters. All okay.

 

But if they lose - what they are afraid of - it is confirmed that they have been deceived by some blockheads,  as Johnson for example. It would be a correction by the MAJORITY, who now  know more about the real problems and  about the former propaganda for Brexit. The last election already showed this tendency.

 

You're partly right I think.  I'm afraid of a second referendum because most of the noise coming out of the press since the vote has been remain propaganda, and therefore I'm afraid the vote would be to remain in the EU. People are worried about the temporary weak pound, and this combined with the lies from Blair and his cronies might just make the difference.

 

All of my adult life I've felt uncomfortable with the way the EU has been evolving, and I've waited decades for the chance to escape this corrupt dictatorship (FIFA and Sepp Blatter spring to mind). I don't want the UK to continue propping up the EU and taking orders from a bunch of unelected civil servants. So I don't want the people to be tricked into voting remain in a 2nd referendum.

 

Stay strong people! The pound will recover, and our economy will thrive in the decades to come.  The EU will not survive in it's current format. Just my opinion of course...

 

[Jip99]

7 hours ago, rixalex said:

No they don't. The lie that Brexit supporters are constantly having to dispel, is that supporting Brexit means being anti-immigration, means being against foreigners, mean being a racist and all the rest of the nonsense that gets spouted in a pathetic attempt to denigrate people on the other side of the argument.

 

Brexit supporters want a fair immigration policy that doesn't arbitrarily allow people from one nation to walk in completely unchecked, but at the same time, make it virtually impossible for people from another nation to even knock on the door. Treat every foreigner equally, why not? Screen them all in exactly the same way. Decide how many foreigners the infrastructure of the country can cope with, decide which areas of work need foreign labour, and then choose the right people, regardless of where they hail from.

 

Remainers need to stop acting like they have the moral high ground when it comes to immigration, because what they support is a highly discriminatory system.

 

 

I agree - For voting in favour of Brexit I have been labelled as racist and dumb; I am neither and have history to prove it.

 

I am one of those people who believe in right and wrong and fairness. Brought up post-war Britain with all the values that were associated with that time.

 

I am someone who loves Europe, and most Europeans, but despises what the EU has become.

 

The EU is not what signed up for, nor voted for in 1975.

 

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm#8

 

 

It has been the failure of successive governments (but most notably Cameron's) in allowing excessive control to build up within the EC.

 

The majority of voters recognised that and voted to leave. No small feat as many people I spoke to were sitting at the margin and voted for the 'safe/less risky' option of remaining.

 

Yes, there will be unwanted extremists on the right who voted to leave - equally, there would have been left wing extremists voting to remain.

 

The sooner that the losing side add their valuable support to the process of leaving - because that is what we are going to do - the better. Even those against leaving (and posters such as dunroaming with vested interest in trading with Europe) should work together on a positive exit from the EU.

[dick dasterdly]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

David Cameron tried that and was shown the door. Mr Junker has showed his vision in his speech last week which is more control, taking more sovereignty, having an EU army, One currency , bank etc That hardly seems like changing the system , more like consolidating the system.

More importantly IMO, the brexit vote should have been a 'wake up' call to curb the EU's seriously disliked waste and excesses - by the ordinary population of most countries, not just those in the UK.

 

But instead, they preferred to protect their own overpaid jobs/continue the empire building excesses and rely on fear mongering/bullying tactics .

 

Edit - whilst, even more ludicrously, spouting even more promises of empire building !

[sawadee1947]

On 9/19/2017 at 1:17 PM, nauseus said:

The EU future looks dire - that's why the UK voted out. 

I like your jokes....same as  "Laughing Gravy" too.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I agree - For voting in favour of Brexit I have been labelled as racist and dumb; I am neither and have history to prove it.

 

I am one of those people who believe in right and wrong and fairness. Brought up post-war Britain with all the values that were associated with that time.

 

I am someone who loves Europe, and most Europeans, but despises what the EU has become.

 

The EU is not what signed up for, nor voted for in 1975.

 

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm#8

 

 

It has been the failure of successive governments (but most notably Cameron's) in allowing excessive control to build up within the EC.

 

The majority of voters recognised that and voted to leave. No small feat as many people I spoke to were sitting at the margin and voted for the 'safe/less risky' option of remaining.

 

Yes, there will be unwanted extremists on the right who voted to leave - equally, there would have been left wing extremists voting to remain.

 

The sooner that the losing side add their valuable support to the process of leaving - because that is what we are going to do - the better. Even those against leaving (and posters such as dunroaming with vested interest in trading with Europe) should work together on a positive exit from the EU.

 

In my opinion, Cameron did no better or worse than any other UK leader could have done. Like all dictatorships and quasi-dictatorships, the EU does not allow being stood up to. And we've had that confirmed with their total intransigence in the ongoing negotiations.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

In my opinion, Cameron did no better or worse than any other UK leader could have done. Like all dictatorships and quasi-dictatorships, the EU does not allow being stood up to. And we've had that confirmed with their total intransigence in the ongoing negotiations.

You call that negotiation? Utter confusion and fuzzy logic. The EU are a bit like a cat playing with a rather fat and stupid mouse...

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You call that negotiation? Utter confusion and fuzzy logic. The EU are a bit like a cat playing with a rather fat and stupid mouse...

 

 

Strange how some us (52% of those who voted) have a completely different mental picture of that cat and mouse.

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Strange how some us (52% of those who voted) have a completely different mental picture of that cat and mouse.

And in that statement lies all you need to know about this entire Brexit farce ......

 

 

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

And in that statement lies all you need to know about this entire Brexit farce ......

 

 

 

 

Finally, you are grasping it....

[Grouse]

OK, this how I feel: Deeply saddened.

 

It is entirely obvious that the meaning of democracy and the details of our own polical system is misunderstood except for some buzz words spouted by some

 

The fact is that many who voted leave were NOT in full possession of the facts and are incapable of rational analysis.

 

The red top predigested pap supplied the "data" and low quality education on the UK resulted in millions rising to the bait without the cognitive skills to analyse the situation

 

Many on here (with notable exceptions) leave me deeply depressed with their crass, purile and deeply uninformed comments

 

I feel that the Brexiters will get their way to everyone's disadvantage.

 

It never occurs to these Joes that a balanced view might be appropriate. No, for them it's always 100% this or that.

 

It also never occurs to these people that the fact that the vast majority of those who, on balance, favour the status quo ante, could have any worthwhile points for consideration. No, the lumpen masses must be correct without question.

 

So run along now but don't expect any applause from me ?

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

 

So run along now but don't expect any applause from me ?

 

 

Does that mean your leaving................................. ?

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Does that mean your leaving................................. ?

Quite the reverse; just back from month in Europe.

 

Spent a week in the U.K; Winchester was first class but Rotherham wasn't. Timothy Taylor's Landlord is stil excellent.

[Nigel Garvie]

On 9/19/2017 at 12:07 PM, aright said:

In May 2017 European Unemployment Rates were:

Greece 22.5%, Spain 17.7%, Italy 11.3%, Cyprus 11%, Croatia 10.7%, France 9.6%,

Portugal 9.4%..................... UK 4.5%, Germany 3.9%.

There are 25 countries in the EU with higher unemployment rates than the UK. 

Richest market!! Arguable!!

Successful market for its people??? Hardly, considering the unemployment rates.

The UK at 4.5% is a good performance made despite the EU. Imagine what we can do when the shackles come off.

 

 

I will grant you that the EU is no longer the largest economy by GDP,  after the EU overtook the USA it has  itself been overtaken by China. However pleasing as it is to see that unemployment in the UK has fallen, it doesn't necessarily imply that the new jobs are good well paying full time jobs, it appears that is not the case. Neither is it a good indication of the wealth of the economy, we could have full employment with everyone  digging up turnips!

 

[CG1 Blue]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The fact is that many who voted leave were NOT in full possession of the facts and are incapable of rational analysis.

This is a moot point, and is quite insulting. I would say there were just as many voted remain without being in full possession of the facts, and who were incapable of rational analysis.

Let's not forget we had the government of the day pushing and funding (e.g. £9m leaflet drop) a vigorous remain campaign. Yet the UK still voted in favour of leaving.

I think a fair and balanced debate would have resulted in a much wider margin of victory for Leave.

 

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I will grant you that the EU is no longer the largest economy by GDP,  after the EU overtook the USA it has  itself been overtaken by China. However pleasing as it is to see that unemployment in the UK has fallen, it doesn't necessarily imply that the new jobs are good well paying full time jobs, it appears that is not the case. Neither is it a good indication of the wealth of the economy, we could have full employment with everyone  digging up turnips!

 

This all depends on where you get your info. The majority of sources still have the USA still on top and many do not consider the EU as it is not a nation state.

[Grouse]

58 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

This is a moot point, and is quite insulting. I would say there were just as many voted remain without being in full possession of the facts, and who were incapable of rational analysis.

Let's not forget we had the government of the day pushing and funding (e.g. £9m leaflet drop) a vigorous remain campaign. Yet the UK still voted in favour of leaving.

I think a fair and balanced debate would have resulted in a much wider margin of victory for Leave.

 

I am just stating the position as I see it. The whole issue is extremely important and if my options are insulting I don't really care. You really think 9M for leaflets is an issue? It's not even peanuts.

 

I maintain that those voting remain TEND to have lower education levels and demonstrably do not understand the background.

 

Its quite frightening actually - the lunatics (or at least the nitwits) have taken over the asylum.

 

I find it astonishing that these Brexiters show no balance, have no consideration of differing viewpoints. It's all binary.

 

If ever there were an example of the dictum " democracy depends upon equal education and access to information" this is it!

 

To educated people, Brexit is madness. 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I maintain that those voting remain TEND to have lower education levels and demonstrably do not understand the background.

I gather you (as a more educated person) meant to say 'those voting Leave'.  Quite ironic really

 

Seriously though, you need to stop with the arrogance and the patronising comments / assumptions about those who voted Leave.

[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I gather you (as a more educated person) meant to say 'those voting Leave'.  Quite ironic really

 

Seriously though, you need to stop with the arrogance and the patronising comments / assumptions about those who voted Leave.

 

 

He can't.

 

Like many losers he can only resort to cheap - and meaninglessness - insults.